Toyota Showing Achilles Heel

[Northof49]

Here's one fresh off the hotline... A friend at work has an '04 Echo with a nasty rubbing / grinding sound coming from the front right wheel. The dealer told him this new noise was caused by "modulation of the power steering system" and is of course, "normal". If nothing else, these guys certainly have some talent in the creativity department.

Lots of them develop a nasty sound when turning on either front wheel. It's common and I THINK a simple fix.....which I can't remember, unfortunately. If I talk to the Toyota tommorow I'll try to remember to ask. Not something simple like a bent backing plate? Those are flimsier that usual on Echos....but I don't know if that's the usual culprit for that noise.

 

[Northof49]

Thai, I guess you forgot not too long ago you had told someone it is OK to go with a 1st year FJ.

Well, the vast majority of big-ticket FJ parts have been standard Tacoma/4R fair since 03, so I wouldn't fear it too much

 

[Iowa4Runner]

Lots of them develop a nasty sound when turning on either front wheel. It's common and I THINK a simple fix.....which I can't remember, unfortunately. If I talk to the Toyota tommorow I'll try to remember to ask. Not something simple like a bent backing plate? Those are flimsier that usual on Echos....but I don't know if that's the usual culprit for that noise.

If you come up with something, let me know. Thanks...

 

[Thai]

Well, the vast majority of big-ticket FJ parts have been standard Tacoma/4R fair since 03, so I wouldn't fear it too much

Exactly...........hmmm, mental note, need to find that post and delete it.:dammit: :FOS:

 

[Koz]

After doing some searching, it appears this "blown" head gasket problem with Subaru is actually a cooling leak that some owners have experienced. Toyota's head gasket problem was different and more severe. But like Toyota, Subaru extended the head gasket warranty to 8 years, 100,000 miles.

The Toyota of today has evolved into a warranty weasel. My 4Runner is one of the few lucky ones that left the factory with a nice case of piston slap. The piston(s) bang around the cylinder walls loud enough to sound like a diesel. It's honestly an embarrassment to drive during these episodes. Compared to other 2UZ-FE's, my engine is losing aluminum and other wear metals at double the average rate. If Toyota is so eager to swap out heads, short blocks and long blocks, why can't they fix my 1 or 2 cylinders?

If I decide to sell this vehicle, I'll have to hide this defect and plan the sale for a time when the weather is warm. I don't feel right about doing that.

I also hear a loose metallic rattling sound in my transmission when it's in 4th gear. God only knows what that is, I didn't bother to ask the dealer about it.

Here's one fresh off the hotline... A friend at work has an '04 Echo with a nasty rubbing / grinding sound coming from the front right wheel. The dealer told him this new noise was caused by "modulation of the power steering system" and is of course, "normal". If nothing else, these guys certainly have some talent in the creativity department.

Sorry to be such a downer, but I'm having trouble letting go of the bitterness I feel toward Toyota after the treatment my colleagues and I have been given by the area dealers.

Throw that baby into nuteral and keep the gas pedal down to the floor until it goes BOOM!

Koz

 

[Iowa4Runner]

Throw that baby into nuteral and keep the gas pedal down to the floor until it goes BOOM!

Koz

I wonder how many tanks of gas that would take...

 

[SWUtah]

Buy only Toyota's that are built in Japan at the top rated plant.

 

[toto]

Buy only Toyota's that are built in Japan at the top rated plant.

That didn't help my RX 330. The issues with that were design flaws, not sloppy manufacturing. '04 RX 330's from both Japan and Canada had lots of issues.
And all 4Runners sold in North America are still made in Japan - always have been.
I think Toyota can make a good car in any country, but first-year bugs can also happen anywhere.

 

[Uneek]

That didn't help my RX 330. The issues with that were design flaws, not sloppy manufacturing. '04 RX 330's from both Japan and Canada had lots of issues.
And all 4Runners sold in North America are still made in Japan - always have been.
I think Toyota can make a good car in any country, but first-year bugs can also happen anywhere.

:iagree: Overall, Toyota has a better record than any manufacturer of putting out quality products. But even then, sometimes things do fall through the cracks.

 

[SWUtah]

That didn't help my RX 330. The issues with that were design flaws, not sloppy manufacturing. '04 RX 330's from both Japan and Canada had lots of issues.
And all 4Runners sold in North America are still made in Japan - always have been.
I think Toyota can make a good car in any country, but first-year bugs can also happen anywhere.

The plant that the 4runner is built, is in Japan and is the only Platinum rated auto manufacturing plant in the world (JD Power). It is also the most automated plant in the world. Yes there can be design problems. Not normally with Toyota/Lexus but shat happens. About a year ago GM was doing commerical bragging on the fact that they had plants in north America that were rated bronze, silver, gold. I laughed everytime I heard that commerical. Like saying we have crappy rated plants making are vehicles and you should be happy and buy our cars

 

[Koz]

I read a test report about the 3.4 V6 with the added TRD blower where they ran the engine in a lab at full throttle for something like 40 hrs strait (using several hundred gal of gas). They disassembled the engine and found that is didn't show any signs of wear, ANYWHERE!

Koz

 

[ToyotaDan]

I had a 2004 ES330 that I traded in. The thing would have such bad hesitation, that when making a left turn, I had to make sure there was no visible on coming traffic. Sometimes it would take 2 seconds after I hit the accelerator for the car to move. The Lexus was the biggest POS I have ever owned (and I owned a Dodge Durango). Lexus did nothing. Eventually my wife almost got into an accident because of it, and she refused to drive it. Got her the 2005 Sienna with NAV and AWD. Same issues there, but not as bad. Seems Toyota is having problems in all their fly by wire systems. The Sienna has been in the shop for other things, like rattles, radio not working, electrical issues and battery draining all the time. The 4runner is rock solid. I am not sure if I will be buying another Toyota any time soon. Actually I got a C6 corvette a few months ago and it has not seen a dealer yet. We will see about that.

 

[charlier180]

I had a 2004 ES330 that I traded in. The thing would have such bad hesitation, that when making a left turn, I had to make sure there was no visible on coming traffic. Sometimes it would take 2 seconds after I hit the accelerator for the car to move. The Lexus was the biggest POS I have ever owned (and I owned a Dodge Durango). Lexus did nothing. Eventually my wife almost got into an accident because of it, and she refused to drive it. Got her the 2005 Sienna with NAV and AWD. Same issues there, but not as bad. Seems Toyota is having problems in all their fly by wire systems.

Your hesitation problems with drive by wire systems reminds me of a VW customer a VW Tech friend of mine had recently. The gentleman complained of severe hesitation problems. My friend did all the diagnostic tests he could think of. During test drives he performed the problem did not occur either. Finally he took the owner for a test ride letting the owner take it out first. Sure enough, the hesitation problem started the minute they tried to leave the dealer's lot. As they drove, my friend observed how the owner drove the vehicle. Finally after about 5 minutes of driving my friend asked the owner if he always drove with two feet. The owner replied he learned that way and had been driving like that for 30+ years. My friend then started driving back and the car had no hesitation problem what-so-ever (he drives with one foot). After explaining the drive by wire system to the customer he realized that there was nothing wrong with the vehicle. Moral of the story is that some drive by wire systems (ie VWs and others) are overridden by activating the brake system (even ever so slightly).

If you or your wife drive with two feet this might be what you experienced. If not, you might want to ask your wife's service tech just how the Toyota drive by wire system works in her vehicle and if a brake system issue may be causing the hesitation.

 

[toto]

There's a well-known hesitation problem with Toyota's 3.3L drivetrain. The computer for the transmission is optimized for fuel economy and it "learns" your driving habits in the process.
The net result of all of this "intelligence" is that it hesitates to downshift in response to increased pressure on the gas pedal. It wants to make sure you really want it to downshift before it does it.
For several model year 04 Toyota and Lexus products, the hesitation is a huge problem. TSB's haven't really fixed it, although it got better with model year 05 and 06.
There are a lot of model year 07 products with a new 3.5L drivetrain - now you know why!

 

[ToyotaDan]

Your hesitation problems with drive by wire systems reminds me of a VW customer a VW Tech friend of mine had recently. The gentleman complained of severe hesitation problems. My friend did all the diagnostic tests he could think of. During test drives he performed the problem did not occur either. Finally he took the owner for a test ride letting the owner take it out first. Sure enough, the hesitation problem started the minute they tried to leave the dealer's lot. As they drove, my friend observed how the owner drove the vehicle. Finally after about 5 minutes of driving my friend asked the owner if he always drove with two feet. The owner replied he learned that way and had been driving like that for 30+ years. My friend then started driving back and the car had no hesitation problem what-so-ever (he drives with one foot). After explaining the drive by wire system to the customer he realized that there was nothing wrong with the vehicle. Moral of the story is that some drive by wire systems (ie VWs and others) are overridden by activating the brake system (even ever so slightly).

If you or your wife drive with two feet this might be what you experienced. If not, you might want to ask your wife's service tech just how the Toyota drive by wire system works in her vehicle and if a brake system issue may be causing the hesitation.

Yeah - I hate automatics, I actually learned to drive on manual tranny, so did my wife. We would never drive with two feet. This problem with hesitation is well documented on edmunds.com and nhtsa.gov - i am not the only one having these issues.

 

[toybox]

My '05 Sienna has this hesitation problem. I have the TSB printed out and I'm just waiting for the state inspection to be up to bring it in and at the same time to have it fixed.

 

[Spider5]

For what its worth, we had a 2004 highlander and it has been in several times to solve the what Toyota now claims is an "non-solvable hesitation issue" and

 

[Uneek]

Bummer... I hope this isn't going to be a trend.

Toyota recalls hit 1M vehicles.

 

[bryanintexas]

i`ve worked for toyota for almost 15 yrs now. seeing them day in and out, all models have issues. it`s man made for god sake. not saying anyone`s issues are not legitiment, but it happens.

there have been several issues in the past, good and bad, where toyota has taken care of the product (i.e. 3vz head gaskets), and left other issues w/o resolving the problem (i.e. 7m head gaskets). they make the rules on their warranty......


as far as buying 1st year new models, agreed! don`t buy them. give them 6-9 months to work out the bugs and get a later production of the vehicle.


there also seems to be the trend of "north american" produced units having more issues than "japan" built vehicles. yes, i know there is a greater ratio of NAP to JAP produced vehicles currently, but this has been a trend for a long time. faulty NAP sourced parts from the NAP plants, superceding to JAP manufactured parts for replacement. hhmmmmm....

needless to say, i stick w/ the JAP produced toyotas. i have 3. very few issues and all legitiment warrantable issues taken care of by toyota.

 

[60L]

Between the dealership and the problems I had with my '05 Runner I got rid of it and went back to Chevy. I really enjoyed my 4Runner so please don't think i'm bashing Toyota in fact I had a Prerunner before that. Sulpher smell, window chips/cracks, paint defects, wheel shudder, rattles heck I could get all that with an American vehicle Anyway I was disappointed with the issues and the lack of support from the dealership. The Chevy dealership is quite different from that and has a bullet-proof rep in my area with an excellent service department. I will miss the XRAES suspension and peppy V6 but gotta do what you gotta do! I had been reading this site for a year and only registered to tell you what a big help you've been and appreciate all the knowledge you folks have on the 4Runner. This is truly the best 4Runner site out there. Last thing, any vehicle you buy today is a roll of the dice everyone has great vehicles and some lemons but I still believe your odds are better with Toyota :cheers: