Toytec or Sonoran Adjustable Panhard bar?

[1985taylor1925]

Im trying to decide which one to go with.

Toytec's bar is $25 more at $200. The Toytec bar uses a heim join, which I would imagine is gonna be really rigid, but could also wear out faster.

The Sonoran bar uses a flexible poly bushing, which would provide some cushon in horizontal stress, but probably wouldnt feel quite as rigid as the Toytec bar. Though that might be a good thing for daily driving. Sonoran also claims their poly bushing will outlast a heim joint or the factory bushing.

Keep in mind my driving with the runner is primarily highway/city for the time being, and will probably stay that way for a while.

Any comparisons between the two bars? Impressions from those of you who use them?

thanks guys

 

[gannonrt]

I can't speak to the Toytec or the durability of the Heim joint, but I'm not sure that it matters in terms of durability. I took off the stock panhard bar in 2010 to replace it with the SS one and didn't notice any wear to the bushings. I still have it as a backup so I'll take a picture later today to show you the wear. It was taken off after about 110K.

 

[rickashay]

Aren't heim joints super noisy?

 

[4-Ripcord]

Aren't heim joints super noisy?

THIS.

I'm a toytec guy to the end, but I would go with the SS bar. Well that's not true, I'd do a drop bracket instead of a $200 bar.

 

[steezemcqueen]

Aren't heim joints super noisy?

Mine are silent. Both in the PHB and my rear LCA's

 

[rickashay]

I know lots of guys here, up North, complain about noisy heim joints all the time. Might be because of our nasty weather/winters and more wear on the parts??

 

[brian2sun]

THIS.

I'm a toytec guy to the end, but I would go with the SS bar. Well that's not true, I'd do a drop bracket instead of a $200 bar.

Mine are silent. Both in the PHB and my rear LCA's

It seems to be hit and miss with noisy heims. My heims on my rear LCAs got so noisy I couldn't stand it anymore so I went to a bushing on one side. That was quiet for a while too, but then started to get really noisy again. Mine got to the point that they popped loudly whenever I would start from a stop and also made clunky noises whenever I drove over any bumps in the road. It got so annoying it actually made me not like to drive the 4runner because it sounded like a POS. So I ended up going back to stock LCAs with the Toytec weld-on skids and they work much better for me.

On the other hand, J-money$$$ built the same LCAs (with heims) for his truck and his is way quieter than mine for whatever reason. It may be that mine was a DD for more of that time so mine have more miles on them, or maybe it's because I live in the mountains and they just get beat up faster, I dunno. But mine were awful and his are ok. When I removed my heims, I had 1/16-1/8" of play in each joint.

I can't comment on the durability of a heim on a PHB, but I am wondering how people are getting around the issue of the driveshaft rubbing on the gas tank/skid with the extended PHB??

As far as PH drop brackets go, the extra leverage created by my bracket twisted my PH frame mount all up (almost ruined it). So I ditched that too and went back to just the stock bar in the stock location. It took about an hour to mold and bend the mount back so it would accept the bar again in the stock location (it closed in on itself).

For the record, I like Toytec and think they make great products. I just don't understand how people are getting around these issues. I suppose most just don't wheel enough to have problems?? I dunno.

 

[Nelsonmd]

I would love to see someone try welding an extension bracket onto the axle side PHB mount. Sonoran mentions this in their blurb on why they don't make the drop bracket anymore, but they gloss over the fact that the extended PHB will cause the DS to hit the tank. I have seen custom shock mounts, custom diff armor, custom brake mounts, etc, but I havn't seen a custom PHB bracket on the axle.

 

[brian2sun]

I would love to see someone try welding an extension bracket onto the axle side PHB mount. Sonoran mentions this in their blurb on why they don't make the drop bracket anymore, but they gloss over the fact that the extended PHB will cause the DS to hit the tank. I have seen custom shock mounts, custom diff armor, custom brake mounts, etc, but I havn't seen a custom PHB bracket on the axle.

An extended (axle side) PHB mount would hit the frame crossmember above it when you're flexed out. I agree that would be the best thing to do with the whole pan hard thing, but you'd have to notch out that crossmember and reinforce it to make it work though.

 

[Gerdo]

The bias (diagonal arc) that the axle takes when the drivers wheel is fully compressed, along with an extended panhard bar, can cause contact from the driveshaft with the stock gas tank skid. (now for a shameless plug) The gas tank skid that I produce has been designed to increase this clearance and is tighter to the tank than the stock skid. I have worked with Sonoran Steel and my latest version increases the clearance to work with extended PHBs.

The other option is a PHB drop. This makes the arc more vertical and reduces the driveshaft rubbing.

 

[1985taylor1925]

I thought about doing a drop bracket as well, especially for the price. And I wouldnt be worried about bending it up like yours Brian since Im not doing a lot of serious wheeling. I do more practical off road stuff such as camping, biking, snowboarding, etc. But theres no adjustability with the bracket. So if its designed for a 3" lift its only going to center the axel sitting 3" higher. My lift is around 4" now, will be less than that in the future if these coils settle enough with the weight I have in the back, or I could get a different rear set up all together. So the adjustable bar seems like the best option.

As for the driveshaft rubbing the tank skid plate, I dont imagine this would be an issue for me again with my type of driving. But Im curious, how does that happen? Cause even adjusted for like a 4" lift the phb is only extended like a half inch from stock. I know that changes the geometry of flexing parts. But it doesnt seem like it would be that significant. Guess Id have to see a diagram.

 

[rickashay]

Would reinforcing the pandhard drop be a good option? I'm not sure how mangled yours was Brian, and I know you wheel hard, but could you have added some gussets or something to support it better from the get-go?

 

[brian2sun]

Would reinforcing the pandhard drop be a good option? I'm not sure how mangled yours was Brian, and I know you wheel hard, but could you have added some gussets or something to support it better from the get-go?

Yes, I would reinforce it if I were to do it again. At the time, it was just easier for me to cut the bracket off, bend the mount back into shape and put it back to the stock location. Especially since I never had any issues with the stock PHB and 3-4" of lift so I figured, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I know the PHB should be as flat as possible, but I honestly can't tell a difference in handling or flex with or without the drop bracket. My rear axle is offset about .5" but it doesn't bother me, even when it was my DD.

For anyone doing a PH drop and planning to wheel hard with it, I would recommend in addition to welding it and bolting it on, that you also reinforce it and put a solid spacer of some sort between the stock holes so the mount doesn't close in on itself. Also, face the bolts so the nuts are at the rear and the heads towards the front, otherwise you can do some damage to the ebrake linkage. on the pass/side when you flex it.

Just a few problems I've run into along the way..

 

[Antpwr]

heims joints = noisy
poly bushings = quite
but that is just my personal experience, i would have to say to stay away from the toytec just because of this, personally i am just making my own, cant get myself to shell out 200 bucks for some dom and some poly bushings when i can just build one for less than 100, just my 2 cents. good luck with the decision, let us know how it turns out and if you like it

 

[absalom]

I just had a local fab shop build me a adjustable trac bar for 180, complete with reverse threads, DOM tubing, and Heim joints. No waiting/paying for shipping, called in the morning, done in the afternoon. As good as if not better then SS or TT's bar.

Think local boys

 

[rickashay]

Yes, I would reinforce it if I were to do it again. At the time, it was just easier for me to cut the bracket off, bend the mount back into shape and put it back to the stock location. Especially since I never had any issues with the stock PHB and 3-4" of lift so I figured, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I know the PHB should be as flat as possible, but I honestly can't tell a difference in handling or flex with or without the drop bracket. My rear axle is offset about .5" but it doesn't bother me, even when it was my DD.

For anyone doing a PH drop and planning to wheel hard with it, I would recommend in addition to welding it and bolting it on, that you also reinforce it and put a solid spacer of some sort between the stock holes so the mount doesn't close in on itself. Also, face the bolts so the nuts are at the rear and the heads towards the front, otherwise you can do some damage to the ebrake linkage. on the pass/side when you flex it.

Just a few problems I've run into along the way..

Thanks for the tips! I'll put beefing up my drop bracket on the spring mod list....

 

[1985taylor1925]

So I guess for me the sonoran panhard would be the best option. No risk of a noisy heim joint, it cheaper, and the bushings should last a long time.

Or . . . another thought I just had. What about adding a small spacer to the driver side? I know you can get 8mm spacers on ebay, which is just over 1/4 inch. Autozone has them as well. Being a solid axel I dont see any potential issues with putting a small spacer on one side. The things are iike $15.

 

[Antpwr]

exactly my point, just dont see y anyone would pay for what most of us could do ourselves or have a friend help with, i am sure that a local fab shop would do it, or know of a friend that can weld really good and just supply the parts, then you can custom make it to your wants, not just what a company says you need, if i were you thats what i would do.

 

[1985taylor1925]

exactly my point, just dont see y anyone would pay for what most of us could do ourselves or have a friend help with, i am sure that a local fab shop would do it, or know of a friend that can weld really good and just supply the parts, then you can custom make it to your wants, not just what a company says you need, if i were you thats what i would do.

Ya that would definately be my first option. But believe it or not I dont personally know anyone that welds around here. I went to a machinist last week to have him make me two very simple brackets to mount my fog lights. Basically L angles with a few holes in them, and he was gonna charge me 50. I bet for a custom panhard bar he would want 200.

But I might try the spacer on the driver side for $15

 

[junr]

Bringing this back to the top....I just ordered the Ultimate Lift for my 96 and was contemplating the drop bracket vs the adjustable. I'm not doing hardcore wheeling, more than likely simple trails but nothing crazy, this is my DD and I need to make it back home.

Did I understand some of the posts correctly in that they left the stock bar in the stock location? The only difference being the axle was moved to one side a bit.

A lot of this is new to me, so I'm reading things as much as possible and trying to figure this out. I think for me, the drop bracket may be enough as I don't plan on going crazy off road, just hitting some fun trails with the kids.

junr