Toytecs Panhard Correction Brkt only on one end ?

[Vette468]

What do you guys make' of Toytecs correction bracket only having a Piece that drops-down from the frame and nothing for the axle? .. is it enuff for a 3 inch lift? ..it says 2-3 inch.. I noticed Austins Offroad garage* guy just now posted a Vid'installing Both.. Thanks for any opinions

 

[tx_shooter]

The frame side drop bracket is the better option to help restore a better angle on the panhard bar. The reason is a list of "if" situations.

IF you install the axle side bracket and IF you do not install a longer rear bump stop of some sort you run the possibility of the taller bracket making contact with the body/brackets above it. That is IF the rear axle is moving fast enough with enough weight to cause the rear springs and shocks to fully compress. IF all that comes together - you are in bad shape.

My current setup is with a 2" lift, ToyTec springs, and extended bump stops. At whatever point the rear axle up travels enough for my bracket to contact anything I have three other parts that have failed which means my day is a lot worse than a dent in some metal. Dropping down from the frame side is perfectly fine and has no chance of impact if the owner does everything wrong with bad shocks, worn springs, and stock bump stops on their lift that allows for tire/body contact. But that is just a bad setup that needs work overall.

 

[3bears]

the pan hard brakcet I last used, was 2 parts, one to frame one to axel. Had not seen the one only style b4, after looking at it I kind of like the 2 piece one better, but toytec one might work just fine. Both require weilding. I used thsi one Panhard Correction Kits – eimkeith.com

 

[thenightman]

It should be said that raising the axle side (higher overall panhard) gives you a better roll center, as in, feels less tippy, and better suspension geometry. Lowering the frame end (lower overall panhard) makes those things worse.

 

[Team_Jake]

Forget the Toytec panhard bracket and get the [MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION] PCK (link), it's far superior.

 

[jkeith.w]

It should be said that raising the axle side (higher overall panhard) gives you a better roll center, as in, feels less tippy, and better suspension geometry. Lowering the frame end (lower overall panhard) makes those things worse.

^ that's exactly correct.

 

[jkeith.w]

The frame side drop bracket is the better option to help restore a better angle on the panhard bar. The reason is a list of "if" situations.

IF you install the axle side bracket and IF you do not install a longer rear bump stop of some sort you run the possibility of the taller bracket making contact with the body/brackets above it. That is IF the rear axle is moving fast enough with enough weight to cause the rear springs and shocks to fully compress. IF all that comes together - you are in bad shape.

Aside from the handling issues that are exacerbated by lowering the frame side only (as stated above), I designed the PCK to be used with the stock frame & coil bumps and it will not make contact, even without extending the stops.

 

[RoyT4R]

I agree, eim keiths kit is awesome! About to order set #2 for my new build

 

[jkeith.w]

I agree, eim keiths kit is awesome! About to order set #2 for my new build

cool! thanks for the order!

 

[tx_shooter]

Aside from the handling issues that are exacerbated by lowering the frame side only (as stated above), I designed the PCK to be used with the stock frame & coil bumps and it will not make contact, even without extending the stops.

You are the third person I have found on the Internet who says they designed the panhard relocation kit.

End results are still the same.

 

[jkeith.w]

You are the third person I have found on the Internet who says they designed the panhard relocation kit.

End results are still the same.

Well, I wasn't aware of other folks trying to take credit for my work; the PCK originated right here on T4R because there was no alternative at the time aside from the Toytec bracket and the handling issues that come with that approach.

Here's a link to the origin of the PCK, if you're interested in the background and reasoning behind it: Panhard bar question - Toyota 4Runner Forum - Largest 4Runner Forum

 

[tx_shooter]

Well, I wasn't aware of other folks trying to take credit for my work; the PCK originated right here on T4R because there was no alternative at the time aside from the Toytec bracket and the handling issues that come with that approach.

Here's a link to the origin of the PCK, if you're interested in the background and reasoning behind it: Panhard bar question - Toyota 4Runner Forum - Largest 4Runner Forum

So you designed a cleaner version of someone else's product? :thumb:


Geometry is geometry. The end result needs to be to bring the panhard bar back to/ closer to the original geometry. The panhard bar does not know how you do it; but the vehicle body/weight does. Now there is room for a discussion on adding length to the body side only adds to the problem. But adding length to the axle side does not add the same dynamics because the side with all the weight (and movement) does not have additional leverage arm length. But the dynamics of a lever and fulcrum is probably beyond this topic's scope.

I put the additional height on my axle side and was running 55 - 60 mph on dirt roads fully loaded with camping gear/ RTT for a week. At no point did I feel like the vehicle was going to flop, roll, or the axle was walking around. I may not have the vehicle set up perfect but it is more than good enough.

 

[jkeith.w]

So you designed a cleaner version of someone else's product? :thumb:

? panhard geometry isn't a mystic pursuit - whose product do you think I reproduced? Genuinely curious.

Geometry is geometry. The end result needs to be to bring the panhard bar back to/ closer to the original geometry. The panhard bar does not know how you do it; but the vehicle body/weight does. Now there is room for a discussion on adding length to the body side only adds to the problem. But adding length to the axle side does not add the same dynamics because the side with all the weight (and movement) does not have additional leverage arm length. But the dynamics of a lever and fulcrum is probably beyond this topic's scope.

Raising the panhard (adding height, axle side) improves roll center. Lowering it (reducing height, frame side) is a detriment to roll center. Adding length is what adjustable panhard bars do.

I put the additional height on my axle side and was running 55 - 60 mph on dirt roads fully loaded with camping gear/ RTT for a week. At no point did I feel like the vehicle was going to flop, roll, or the axle was walking around. I may not have the vehicle set up perfect but it is more than good enough.

Well then, you've replicated my kit. I agree with your conclusions. That, however, is totally the opposite of what lowering the frame side does. :shrug:

Glad you're set with your modifications - you are in the same camp as PCK users are - raising roll center is really nice.

 

[tx_shooter]

Really love the Internet.


Guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I do not care about your opinion enough to debate you on something like this. So feel free to not lose sleep that I do not care about your opinion. Maybe some day we could have the discussion over a six pack or good bottle of whiskey; but until then I am not going to do this here.

You take care now. :thanks:

 

[jkeith.w]

Really love the Internet.


Guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I do not care about your opinion enough to debate you on something like this. So feel free to not lose sleep that I do not care about your opinion. Maybe some day we could have the discussion over a six pack or good bottle of whiskey; but until then I am not going to do this here.

You take care now. :thanks:

???

OK, have a good evening.

 

[theesotericone]

Really love the Internet.

Yep. It's full of people who's opinions don't mean shit.

You are picking an argument with a guy who's literally made more improvements to the 3rd gen platform then anyone else. lol

PCK
Lower Link Skids
Upper link Reinforcement
Strut tower reinforcements
LCA reinforcements
Tank relocate.

 

[jkeith.w]

Yep. It's full of people who's opinions don't mean shit.

You are picking an argument with a guy who's literally made more improvements to the 3rd gen platform then anyone else. lol

PCK
Lower Link Skids
Upper link Reinforcement
Strut tower reinforcements
LCA reinforcements
Tank relocate.

Thanks! (I'm just getting started - I love this platform)

but I'm not infallible - I encourage disagreement, I'm always afraid I might've missed something.

In this case, however, it seems he's actually arguing my point with his personal experience, but perhaps assuming there is no fundamental difference in handling in regard to panhard height (understandable if you're just looking at axle arc, really)

Anyway, I appreciate that post - made my night. Now I can sleep easier

 

[theesotericone]

Thanks! (I'm just getting started - I love this platform)

but I'm not infallible - I encourage disagreement, I'm always afraid I might've missed something.

In this case, however, it seems he's actually arguing my point with his personal experience, but perhaps assuming there is no fundamental difference in handling in regard to panhard height (understandable if you're just looking at axle arc, really)

Anyway, I appreciate that post - made my night. Now I can sleep easier

Anytime man.

I'll keep doing the R&D by breaking my rig and you keep making shit that prevents me from doing that(as often). Did you see my spindle break I posted on IFS? It was impressive. I really need to get gussets that fit better on the new spindle(hint, hint). lol

 

[tx_shooter]

Yep. It's full of people who's opinions don't mean shit.

You are picking an argument with a guy who's literally made more improvements to the 3rd gen platform then anyone else. lol

PCK
Lower Link Skids
Upper link Reinforcement
Strut tower reinforcements
LCA reinforcements
Tank relocate.

"designing" a square tube or fish plate for people who lack the ability to fab something for themselves does not make a person walk on water. All the parts he has is selling is something that can be fabbed up by anyone with a decent garage. He is about two clicks above SSO in the creativity scale and two clicks left of All Pro in marketing to people without the capability to work power tools.

It is hilarious seeing how many people are shelling out $100 for something that can functionally be made for maybe $15 in metal. But I'm the idiot here. LOL Keep buying his over priced fish plates and simpleton designs. He owes all of you a blow job for it.

 

[jkeith.w]

Anytime man.

I'll keep doing the R&D by breaking my rig and you keep making shit that prevents me from doing that(as often). Did you see my spindle break I posted on IFS? It was impressive. I really need to get gussets that fit better on the new spindle(hint, hint). lol

yeah, that's on my list - but only if I can add features beyond good fitment (I think so, but we'll see)