Trail edition not recommended for lift?

[FatDave]

Violent Agreement

No they are not, you go out and put a lift and larger tires and break an axle shaft or ANYTHING on the drive train they do not have to honor your warranty. You modified your vehicle, you put extra stress on parts and they failed. Your problem not theirs, that is fact. This is not what the MM act covers.

:rockthrow:

Stifler's position is that the mod isn't responsible for the problem, so the warranty stands.

Rebel's position is that the mod is responsible, so the warranty does not stand.

Both are right, given their assumptions.

In the case of lifts, I think that, given the quantity and quality of most lifts on the market, they are more likely to be ok than not, but there's always exceptions. Like maybe having to re-zero. Thing is, most extreme stress comes from off road driving. After years of it, the expectation should be that something will eventually break, lift or no.

Peace

 

[1engineer]

It is very simple really. If you modify a portion of your vehicle and a component fails due to the modification, it is not covered under warranty. Simple right?

Not so fast:
My thoughts -
"A warranty is nothing more than a sales concession. It is a sales tool used to provide confidence in a product, nothing more. Warranties are developed with the prior knowledge that the benefits of offering a warranty far outweigh the costs of granting warranty."

Here is an example:
1. A family owns four vehicles. He buys them from the same dealership year after year and usually pays near sticker price. He has a questionable warranty claim with one of his vehicles that could go either way. What does the dealer do?

2. A family buys a vehicle from a dealer several hours away on the internet below invoice. He never goes to the local dealer for anything. He has a problem and takes it in to the dealer and it is a questionable warranty claim. What does the dealer do?

Now of course there are other aspects of a warranty contract, such as contractual obligations to repair, et al, but at the end of the day they are sales concessions, nothing else.

 

[Stifler]

No they are not, you go out and put a lift and larger tires and break an axle shaft or ANYTHING on the drive train they do not have to honor your warranty. You modified your vehicle, you put extra stress on parts and they failed. Your problem not theirs, that is fact. This is not what the MM act covers.

Big tires and failed drive shaft = Of course. Big tires and void anything POWERtrain warrantied = BS. Again.... burden of PROOF is on the dealership not the consumer.... I have defended numerous Mag Moss claims successfully and easily.

 

[GrantK]

... burden of PROOF is on the dealership not the consumer.

This is the key, the dealer has to PROVE that the modification caused the problem, not it could have. The consumer only has to contest what the dealer can prove.

Just to muddy the waters even more... The consumer can get corporate involved and unless the modification is blatantly the problem and easy to prove they will probably side with the consumer just for the PR value. The dealers concern is that corporate will reject the claim, once corporate sides with a consumer the dealer is off the hook.

 

[rebelbowtie]

Big tires and failed drive shaft = Of course. Big tires and void anything POWERtrain warrantied = BS. Again.... burden of PROOF is on the dealership not the consumer.... I have defended numerous Mag Moss claims successfully and easily.

Drive shaft, ball joints, tie rods, wheel bearings, transmission, torque converter, axles, brakes are all effected by larger tires. So yes, drive train

 

[Stifler]

Drive shaft, ball joints, tie rods, wheel bearings, transmission, torque converter, axles, brakes are all effected by larger tires. So yes, drive train

ok drink the koolaid but unless you have case history to refute mine all I can say is it is your loss if you accept the dealership's refusal without contest... people that do that are as much the problem as the dealership if you ask me. There are many things that can cause those items to fail even with stock suspension and stock size tires so with that said by itself and without further argument it almost always refutes PROOF IRT mag moss act. Most companies will concede in arbitration before shelling out legal fees to fight a $200 ball joint replacement.:wink2:

 

[SOcalTRAIL]

ok drink the koolaid but unless you have case history to refute mine all I can say is it is your loss if you accept the dealership's refusal without contest... people that do that are as much the problem as the dealership if you ask me. There are many things that can cause those items to fail even with stock suspension and stock size tires so with that said by itself and without further argument it almost always refutes PROOF IRT mag moss act. Most companies will concede in arbitration before shelling out legal fees to fight a $200 ball joint replacement.:wink2:

^^^This is right on. A dealer would love to blame your blown transmission on your sweet Justin Beiber shift knob if you sit there and let it happen. Burden of proof is on the dealership unless it is blatantly obvious. These dealership techs and service writers are not experts either, I had a service writer swear up and down that I had an aftermarket sway bar on my truck whenI first brought it in... all stock... Go figure.

 

[Stifler]

Americans have become complacent and way to naive these days. This is not to say ALL dealerships would do this but I would say 9 out of 10 will say, "Not covered" without second thought because 90% of people will tuck their tails and walk away. That 10% that give pushback will usually get results unless it is just an obvious unwarranted claim. Imagine if we had just 50/50 or even better 80/20 give that same push back. It would send a clear signal to dealerships that we are tired of their crap... I will go even further to say that if Americans didn't just stand by and take it up the poop shoot from retailers/manufactures in general you would see 2 things.... 1. less BS from them resulting in BETTER customer support and satisfaction (basically consumer confidence rises) and 2. Less need and fodder for frivolous lawsuits. This is just Stifler's perception of the world... I have many more for your reading pleasure if it is a slow day at work lol:guitar3:

 

[K O]

^^^This is right on. A dealer would love to blame your blown transmission on your sweet Justin Beiber shift knob if you sit there and let it happen. Burden of proof is on the dealership unless it is blatantly obvious. These dealership techs and service writers are not experts either, I had a service writer swear up and down that I had an aftermarket sway bar on my truck whenI first brought it in... all stock... Go figure.

OMG WHERE CAN I GET THIS SWEET JUSTIN BEIBER SHIFT KNOB YOU SPEAK OF???? :hungry:

 

[SOcalTRAIL]

OMG WHERE CAN I GET THIS SWEET JUSTIN BEIBER SHIFT KNOB YOU SPEAK OF???? :hungry:

That sir, is G14 classified information.

 

[1engineer]

Americans have become complacent and way to naive these days. This is not to say ALL dealerships would do this but I would say 9 out of 10 will say, "Not covered" without second thought because 90% of people will tuck their tails and walk away. That 10% that give pushback will usually get results unless it is just an obvious unwarranted claim. Imagine if we had just 50/50 or even better 80/20 give that same push back. It would send a clear signal to dealerships that we are tired of their crap... I will go even further to say that if Americans didn't just stand by and take it up the poop shoot from retailers/manufactures in general you would see 2 things.... 1. less BS from them resulting in BETTER customer support and satisfaction (basically consumer confidence rises) and 2. Less need and fodder for frivolous lawsuits. This is just Stifler's perception of the world... I have many more for your reading pleasure if it is a slow day at work lol:guitar3:

You wouldn't happen to be an attorney representing the little guy would you?

 

[Hardrunner]

No they are not, you go out and put a lift and larger tires and break an axle shaft or ANYTHING on the drive train they do not have to honor your warranty. You modified your vehicle, you put extra stress on parts and they failed. Your problem not theirs, that is fact. This is not what the MM act covers.

This is true.

 

[rebelbowtie]

This is true.

and common sense for most folk, the MM act is in place so manufactures and dealers alike cannot decline warranty work for something like you putting in aftermarket head lights or changing the factory tires for different ones(in same size or reletive size).

it does not cover major modifications, like lift kits and putting tires much larger than what the vehicle intended on. you put 35" tires on your 4 Runner and something on it breaks somewhere in the drive train do you really think Toyota is going to honor your warranty? you want proof that putting larger diameter tires has adverse effects on all the moving parts in your truck just ask 1engineer i am sure he would be more than willing to bust out some of his crazy engineer math and show you exactly how much more stress is on those parts.

 

[Stifler]

You wouldn't happen to be an attorney representing the little guy would you?

either that or I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express

 

[Jake_AF]

Dido, I've got the ICON stage one on my 2011 trail w/KDSS and had the dealership do my alignment. They complimented the installation and the ride quality and the tech actually said he would start recommending the kit to people looking for a lift. Yesterday I came across the TSB for our driveshafts and they made no mention of the lift/warranty other than saying "your the guy with the sweet lift on your 4runner aren't you?" They didn't even test drive it to confirm the drive shaft thump in 4WD, they just ordered the parts and said they'd get it taken care of. Granted, all dealerships are not created equal so as others have already stated, find a new dealership that treats you right.

 

[1engineer]

either that or I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express

That's what I thought.

 

[MacRunner]

So I picked up my '12 trail today, sweeeet!!! Going to get new tires this afternoon.

My dealer provides a lifetime drivetrain warranty. So I asked if I add a lift does it affect the warranty? The answer was dependent on the type of lift. If I lifted the whole chasis then that would void the warranty, if I just did a suspension lift then that does not affect the warranty. Good to know!

 

[characterzero]

So I picked up my '12 trail today, sweeeet!!! Going to get new tires this afternoon.

My dealer provides a lifetime drivetrain warranty. So I asked if I add a lift does it affect the warranty? The answer was dependent on the type of lift. If I lifted the whole chasis then that would void the warranty, if I just did a suspension lift then that does not affect the warranty. Good to know!

Yeah, I'd get that in writing.

 

[Stifler]

So I picked up my '12 trail today, sweeeet!!! Going to get new tires this afternoon.

My dealer provides a lifetime drivetrain warranty. So I asked if I add a lift does it affect the warranty? The answer was dependent on the type of lift. If I lifted the whole chasis then that would void the warranty, if I just did a suspension lift then that does not affect the warranty. Good to know!

stick with that dealer... that is the response you should get. What dealership/location? I got the same at Wesley Chapel Toyota in Florida

 

[MacRunner]

Mall of Georgia Toyota in Buford. Not a great fan of dealers but once the salesman knew I was seriuos they went out of their way to get me what I wanted. They had to trade several vehicles from their inventory in order to get another dealer in NC to trade them for my shoreline blue trail with kdds.
And yes I should have asked for the warranty clarification in writing!