Trans Temps with Bypassing and Using External Cooler

[fourfive]

Not to discount your results but I'm having a hard time believing the simple switching of coolants made an 8 degree difference. Like [MENTION=115590]StreetCreeper[/MENTION] already mentioned, the coolant is there for it's anti-corrosion properties, it's "anti-freezing" properties and it also raises the boiling temperature of the water. The usual mix is 50% water and 50% antifreeze. I'm wondering if the coolant you replaced happened to have a heavier ratio of antifreeze and thus lost some of it's cooling potential due to less water. Or, maybe your cooling system wasn't properly "burped" before and now it is.

If Toyota Red Coolant could indeed do this, I'd switch over in a heartbeat. I do however lean towards there's something missing in this equation that caused the reduction in temperature you saw. I average 190 with Prestone Green and I doubt I'd be running at 182 with Toyota Red.

But hell, I could be totally wrong. I never would have thought the position of that little jiggle valve on a thermostat could cause a such a difference in coolant temps but supposedly it can for some people like [MENTION=136650]DK327[/MENTION].

It's good you got your coolant temperatures down though because now you're running where you should be.

Wasn't implying that toyota red coolant decreased my temp since that's the only coolant thats ever been used on my 4runner. I literally just meant that I noticed a change in my avg coolant temp from 198F to 190F after doing a flush myself for the first time. Just an observation, not a cause-effect statement.

 

[mtbtim]

Gotcha. I've never actually done a true flush on any vehicle I've owned. Just a drain and refill of the radiator. Maybe I should try it out on my truck the next time I'm due for coolant renewal.

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[DK327]

I never would have thought the position of that little jiggle valve on a thermostat could cause a such a difference in coolant temps but supposedly it can for some people

There is no rhyme or reason why repositioning the jiggle valve downward causes this type of response but since it's specifically mentioned in the FSM and it actually works, the system seems to be intentionally designed to work this way. Of course the other mystery is why it works for some but makes no difference for others... After I'm back from my SD trip, I'll replace the fan clutch as well and see if that lowers temps some more although I'm very happy with where it's now, at 188F.

 

[mtbtim]

There is no rhyme or reason why repositioning the jiggle valve downward causes this type of response but since it's specifically mentioned in the FSM and it actually works, the system seems to be intentionally designed to work this way. Of course the other mystery is why it works for some but makes no difference for others... After I'm back from my SD trip, I'll replace the fan clutch as well and see if that lowers temps some more although I'm very happy with where it's now, at 188F.

I did some more reading on thermostats and the function of the jiggle valve and found an interesting statement from this Australian Radiator company.

Here's the link to the website:
ARE Cooling
And a quote:
"All High-Flow Thermostats are fitted with a jiggle pin that enables the system
pressure to be stabilised so that the valve opens easier. The jiggle pin also
allows air pockets to move past the Thermostat and the temperature to be
regulated more efficiently. Fitting High-Flow Thermostats will allow your
vehicle cooling system to operate more efficiently."

I already knew the jiggle valve helped remove air pockets so it would prevent an air lock but this new claim that it enables the system pressure to be stabilized so that the valve opens easier is something I didn't know.

But what is still hard to understand is why the position of the jiggle valve makes such a big difference. Is it possible the coolant piping leading to the thermostat doesn't actually fill completely to the top so a jiggle valve placed at the 12 o'clock position isn't going to be as effective? I would think since the system is pressurized the piping would be full. Could it be something with gravity?

Maybe it's time for a new thread and somebody in Toyota 4runner Land has an explanation.

 

[cbr900boy]

I just installed my B&M 70268 this weekend along with my temp gauge. I also ran it in series because my OEM Toyota radiator is less than a year old and I'm not too concerned about the "strawberry milkshake". I have a 98 so my torque app doesn't show trans temp but it definitely shows on my 01. That is why had to install the Autometer temp gauge.

After the install I drove it around town, up and down hills and freeways with my A/C on and it never got passed 180. The outside temp was in the 90s. Mind you I have 33s, front and rear heavy bumpers with a swing out and a winch. I don't ever plan on towing but my trunk is pretty loaded with stuff. The true test is when I drive up to Bigbear.

I wanted to do it "clean" so I purchased a temp gauge sensor manifold (Dakota Digital) with a built-in ground since the manifold was connected between rubber hoses. I placed the sensor on the line coming out of the transmission so I can see highest temp. On my 01, I can see that Toyota placed their sensor on the same line so it was a no brainer for me. I know there are a lot of debates on this subject on the forums but this is what I'm comfortable with. It worked like a charm. I'm a little OCD so don't blame me...hahaha. FYI, I run Amsoil ATF. I also installed a voltmeter in place of the clock since it doesn't work, the fit was perfect. Enjoy the pics.

 

[ivopivo]

I just spent a good 4-5 hours reading, I believe, ALL the threads on this trans cooler topic. I wanted to really read before asking a dumb questions that us newbs are normally known for... That said, I have a dumb question

Most seem to be going with the B&M cooler. Some are doing Tru-Cool. I've decided to do a cooler in-series and go with either trucool LPD4454 or BM 70268. The price is about $30 less for trucool. Is there any quality difference from someone with experience or do I just go with the cheaper option? To me it looks like the exact same cooler rebranded, but I don't know much about these.

I've already spent $700+ and soon making that $1000 and a good 4-10hrs doing all the maintenance, so $30 isn't going to make much of a difference. BUT, being somewhat wiser now compared to blowing $ left and right on my BMW, $30 is $30 .

PS> Thanks a ton Tim for all the videos, I watched quite a few on your channel and it has definitely made DIY stuff on my 97 4runner much easier.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

I just spent a good 4-5 hours reading, I believe, ALL the threads on this trans cooler topic. I wanted to really read before asking a dumb questions that us newbs are normally known for... That said, I have a dumb question



Most seem to be going with the B&M cooler. Some are doing Tru-Cool. I've decided to do a cooler in-series and go with either trucool LPD4454 or BM 70268. The price is about $30 less for trucool. Is there any quality difference from someone with experience or do I just go with the cheaper option? To me it looks like the exact same cooler rebranded, but I don't know much about these.



I've already spent $700+ and soon making that $1000 and a good 4-10hrs doing all the maintenance, so $30 isn't going to make much of a difference. BUT, being somewhat wiser now compared to blowing $ left and right on my BMW, $30 is $30 .



PS> Thanks a ton Tim for all the videos, I watched quite a few on your channel and it has definitely made DIY stuff on my 97 4runner much easier.

If your buying a low pressure drop True Cool get the 4589. It's got twice the rating and bigger than the BM everyone else has been installing. I installed the 4589 on the 97 Puppy Hauler. Worth it to get the larger cooler. It barely fits but is doable.


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[theesotericone]

[MENTION=175531]ivopivo[/MENTION]

I am running in series and went with a Hayden 678. It was 44 bucks delivered to my door. I also wheel a lot so I added a 7" electric fan to help keep the airflow up at lower speeds.

Around town this summer with 100F air temps the trans never got over 150. Going up steep long highway grades pushes it to about 180. Wheeling really steep grades I've never seen it push past 190. Mines a 97 so I also added a Auto Meter 2640 and gauge pod to be able to actually read the temps.

 

[ivopivo]

If your buying a low pressure drop True Cool get the 4589. It's got twice the rating and bigger than the BM everyone else has been installing. I installed the 4589 on the 97 Puppy Hauler. Worth it to get the larger cooler. It barely fits but is doable.


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Forgive me, but what do you mean by "buying a low pressure drop"?

Oh and I thought of going bigger, but seems like the 4490 will fit easier (behind the middle bracket) and almost same cooling capacity. Any reason to go with 4589 vs 4490?

 

[19963.4lsr5]

That's what the LDP part of the part number stands for. The cross tube flow thickness promotes kind of a temp regulator or internal bypass to try and prevent the fluid temps from going too low.

Here are the specs on the 3 you have in question. The 4490 is 12x11 but only 3/4" thick. I had no problem fitting the 4589 which is thicker at 1.5" and 8x11". Bigger is better. The air to oil coolers are not as efficient as the cooler in your rad you want to bypass. You should also install a temp gauge.


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[ivopivo]

That's what the LDP part of the part number stands for. The cross tube flow thickness promotes kind of a temp regulator or internal bypass to try and prevent the fluid temps from going too low.

Here are the specs on the 3 you have in question. The 4490 is 12x11 but only 3/4" thick. I had no problem fitting the 4589 which is thicker at 1.5" and 8x11". Bigger is better. The air to oil coolers are not as efficient as the cooler in your rad you want to bypass. You should also install a temp gauge.

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Thanks for the info. I already saw the specs and the 4490 is only 1000 btu less (20k vs 21k) than the 4589, which is why I'd get that one since it's easier to install. I may go with 4589 but that's really not a big deal to me. My main concern was whether to go with trucool or B&M, but from the sounds of it's a cointoss and I should just go with the cheaper unit.

 

[mtbtim]

Thanks for the info. I already saw the specs and the 4490 is only 1000 btu less (20k vs 21k) than the 4589, which is why I'd get that one since it's easier to install. I may go with 4589 but that's really not a big deal to me. My main concern was whether to go with trucool or B&M, but from the sounds of it's a cointoss and I should just go with the cheaper unit.

I'm pretty sure B&M and Tru-Cool have the same supplier just like you think. Save money and go for the more affordable one.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

The company that owned TrueCool before it was sold to Dana/Spicer made the coolers for many other brands. BM included. One difference is or may be the line fittings may be thread in on one brand and molded on the other.


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[alumarine]

I'm with mbtim, I'd go for the most affordable.

There's not much tech in coolers that hasn't been figured out a long time ago.

Any bypass cooler is going to be better than the one you don't have.

I bought the one I used simply because it was easily available to me and the right price.

 

[3bears]

I'm not going to do much more research to see if things have changed over the years, but back when I did mine, B&M said that there coolers had some temp sensitive orifice that if too cold it would send the oil back to the tranny and not completely through the cooler. So I went with the B&M and bypassed the radiator.

I live in a place of very cold temps, and what I noticed in the winter was my trans took too long to be in the correct operating range. So this past fall I installed a new radiator and went back to running in series with the radiator and my trans temps were good cold and hot weather, however before next summer I might install a fan on the trans cooler as I do dirve a lot of back roads, steep hills at slow speed

as far a a trans gauge, you can go that route, or a scan gauge, I went with the cell phone app and the obd adapter and have it reading trans temp, coolant, volts a tach ( which I really don't need since one is on the dash)

 

[tarsun]

i have not yet installed a trans temp gauge but have plans to in the future.

when i bought my 4runner, one of the 1st things i did was to replace the rad and add a trans cooler after the rad. its a smaller 4 pass unit. seems to work, but without a gauge, i cant say for sure. should be better than just the rad cooler though.

the jiggle vale i have experience with though.

average temp before and average temp after was a few degrees but not the 10 deg's that everyone seems to talk about.

but it did make a quantifiable change in temperature. (statistically though, probably not)

i also installed a 10 degree cooler t-stat.
maybe that has something to do with it. idk.

i had it at 12 and at 6. both times was with the new rad and coolant (That cancels out any effect from a new rad or new coolant.)

 

[ivopivo]

Well all the parts are in for my maintenance project! Left it at the Lexus dealer where my buddy's going to do a full cooling system replacement with 3 drive belts for only $250 (couldn't pass that up as I didn't want to spend a day doing the t-belt job for the first time). After I will be doing all the other fluids, filters etc. First on the list will be trans fluid with filter and trucool cooler in-series. I read a lot of the threads on this but can't remember what hose is recommended for the piping of the external cooler? I know it's 3/8" but are you guys mainly just getting a decent hose from Napa or ordering something much nicer online? Thanks in advance.

 

[MN4runnerman]

Well all the parts are in for my maintenance project! Left it at the Lexus dealer where my buddy's going to do a full cooling system replacement with 3 drive belts for only $250 (couldn't pass that up as I didn't want to spend a day doing the t-belt job for the first time). After I will be doing all the other fluids, filters etc. First on the list will be trans fluid with filter and trucool cooler in-series. I read a lot of the threads on this but can't remember what hose is recommended for the piping of the external cooler? I know it's 3/8" but are you guys mainly just getting a decent hose from Napa or ordering something much nicer online? Thanks in advance.

3/8" transmission oil cooler hose. There's nothing special out there and even if there was I see no point.

 

[ivopivo]

Tomorrow or Sat is the trans cooler install day... Last question... How are you guys routing in-series? Is the trans fluid coming from trans going into the radiator or the new cooler first?

 

[19963.4lsr5]

Tomorrow or Sat is the trans cooler install day... Last question... How are you guys routing in-series? Is the trans fluid coming from trans going into the radiator or the new cooler first?

To me that depends on the climate. Running it to the Aux cooler first and then the rad cooler is how my truck is factory.


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