Transfer case troubles...need help

[owyheerat]

Let me start by saying I'm not a mechanic, and have never attempted a project like this before. But I'm challenging myself. Also, I did search and didn't find the answer.

I'm in the process of installing an inchworm complete dual case, and having some issues.

I intially had trouble mating the reduction box adapter to my stock t case. There was about a 1/16" gap between the adapter and my t case. The adapter (by itself) would fit snug to t case (no gap), and the reduction box (without the adapter) would slide on with a gap equal measurement of the adapter plate. But bolt the 2 together and there is a gap. ???

After many texts back and forth to Lowrange offroad tech, he suggested I slowly snug adapter to T-case with the bolts. So I did, and was able to get adapter snugged up with very little torque (in fact I purposely used a 1/4" drive ratchet). But just as I set the ratchet down, I heard a loud pop (like a 22 rifle). I Looked everything over, couldn't see any damage, or cracks. But I couldn't get the output shaft (splined shaft coming out of reduction box that will mate to transmission) to turn, and I couldn't get t case shifted out of 4lo. The shifting rods seemed to be seized.

So I seperated the reduction box (with adapter) from my t case and pulled the back off the T-case, expecting to see broken parts, but all looked ok. Keep in mind I'm a rookie at this, but there were no pieces or parts floating around. Everything was intact. In pulling the back off the t case, it seemed to free up shifting rods. I was able to move them in and out. So I put the t case back together and shifted (manually moving shifting rods) it into neutral. Then reinstalled the reduction box (with adapter plate) and it slid right in place, no gap. I tested all the gears (in both cases) on my bench and all seemed fine.

But, as I was putting the t case back together I found this little 'pin or bearing'(?) on my bench. I had cleaned my bench beforehand, and am almost certain it wasn't there before.

I temporarily installed the assembled dual case in my truck, to make sure everything fit. Which it did...barely. I removed it last night and started to install my Radesigns triple sticks, and was making sure I was able to shift into all the gears. All of that worked fine, but when I put it in 4lo (stock t case), and can not turn output shaft again. It turns in 2wd, and 4hi.

Any idea why I can't get output shaft to turn when in 4lo?

Does that part ('pin or bearing') look like it came from my t case?

Any help is greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long winded post, and crappy cell phone pics

Thanks

Durwin

 

[johnbyebye]

I don't see anything quite like that but I'm just basing it off of these:


http://tacoma.site40.net/4Runner_96...2rmsour/2002/024runne/trvf3am/traass/comp.pdf

http://tacoma.site40.net/4Runner_96...2rmsour/2002/024runne/trvf3am/trauni/comp.pdf

 

[Bumbo]

I have no advise or help to give OP... but I understand how you feel, or what you are going though right now... I can feel the frustration. You are a badass for trying to knock it out yourself.

Really hope you get all that sorted out.

 

[owyheerat]

I don't see anything quite like that but I'm just basing it off of these:


http://tacoma.site40.net/4Runner_96...2rmsour/2002/024runne/trvf3am/traass/comp.pdf

http://tacoma.site40.net/4Runner_96...2rmsour/2002/024runne/trvf3am/trauni/comp.pdf

Thanks for the schematics. I don't see anything like that on those prints either. I am using my sons (sweet) tool set. He worked at a diesel repair shop for awhile, and I remember grabbing a screw driver with a magnetic end. I wonder if it was something in his tool box?

The main issue I want to solve, is why won't the output shaft turn when in 4lo?

 

[owyheerat]

I have no advise or help to give OP... but I understand how you feel, or what you are going though right now... I can feel the frustration. You are a badass for trying to knock it out yourself.

Really hope you get all that sorted out.

Thanks for the compliment and vote of confidence.

I'm hoping one of the 'toyota gurus' stop by and sheds some wisom

 

[johnbyebye]

Thanks for the schematics. I don't see anything like that on those prints either. I am using my sons (sweet) tool set. He worked at a diesel repair shop for awhile, and I remember grabbing a screw driver with a magnetic end. I wonder if it was something in his tool box?

The main issue I want to solve, is why won't the output shaft turn when in 4lo?

How are are you trying to get it to turn? By hand, or wheels lifted off the ground and gear?

 

[owyheerat]

How are are you trying to get it to turn? By hand, or wheels lifted off the ground and gear?

By hand. I can do so, in 2wd and 4hi, but not in 4lo.

 

[MandAtaco]

That pill is part of the lockout between the shift rails on the stock transfer case. I twin sticked mine and that was one of the items that has to be removed in order to make the shift rails run independent of each other. I used this write up when I did the twin stick....

Twin Stick For the FJ Cruiser Case! - RockSolidToys Toyota Solid Axle Swap & 4X4 Forum Facebook

Looking at your pic, something doesn't look right on the right side shift rail. Specifically where the shifter goes. It should be a square notch, but yours looks like its broken or something. I'm not at home right now so I can't send you a good pic, but if this link works you can see how both shift rails have nice little square notches in them. This is mine right after I did the mod to twin stick it.

 

[MandAtaco]

On a second look, it looks like that right side shift rail (2wd/4wd) is to far forward, you shouldn't be able to see the spring at the rear. If it came to far forward the pill may have fallen out of its hole when you had it apart. Now the case could be bound up internally.

 

[RockyrT4R]

Hope you can get it figured out!

 

[owyheerat]

On a second look, it looks like that right side shift rail (2wd/4wd) is to far forward, you shouldn't be able to see the spring at the rear. If it came to far forward the pill may have fallen out of its hole when you had it apart. Now the case could be bound up internally.

Here is close up pic (another crappy cell pic). I'm sure my shift rails are not chipped or broken...just a bad pic.

So do I need to reinstall the pill? I'm using Radesins triple sticks. The 2wd and 4hi seem to work as they should. Not doubting what your saying, just trying to be clear.
Is that what they call the interlock pin?
Does our T case have those little flat keys? I don't remember seeing any of those when I disassembled my case.

Love your 4runner BTW.

Thanks for the help

 

[Airmapper]

By hand. I can do so, in 2wd and 4hi, but not in 4lo.

I don't know if it's accessible to you or not, but have you tried turning the input shaft and seeing if the output turns in Lo? Watch closely because it will turn a lot slower on the output side.

With all that gear reduction it takes more force to get things moving from output to input. It should still do it, but it might take more oomph than you expect compared to turning it in hi range where the gear ratios are closer.

 

[owyheerat]

I don't know if it's accessible to you or not, but have you tried turning the input shaft and seeing if the output turns in Lo? Watch closely because it will turn a lot slower on the output side.

With all that gear reduction it takes more force to get things moving from output to input. It should still do it, but it might take more oomph than you expect compared to turning it in hi range where the gear ratios are closer.

I'm at work right now. I know what you're saying about the reduction. I had to put a mark on the output shaft and one on the 'plate' where drive shaft bolts, to see if they were turning at the same rate.

It feels like 4lo isn't engaging all the way, or something is bound up?

Thanks

 

[owyheerat]

That pill is part of the lockout between the shift rails on the stock transfer case. I twin sticked mine and that was one of the items that has to be removed in order to make the shift rails run independent of each other. I used this write up when I did the twin stick....

Twin Stick For the FJ Cruiser Case! - RockSolidToys Toyota Solid Axle Swap & 4X4 Forum Facebook

Looking at your pic, something doesn't look right on the right side shift rail. Specifically where the shifter goes. It should be a square notch, but yours looks like its broken or something. I'm not at home right now so I can't send you a good pic, but if this link works you can see how both shift rails have nice little square notches in them. This is mine right after I did the mod to twin stick it.

^^^ I think this explains the loud pop. I had the t case in 4lo (didn't realize, and probably not smart), when I first tried mating adapter to t case, and even though by measurement it appeared the machined slot in adapter was deep enough for shift rail. I think it must have forced it back into t case and popped the 'pill' out of place.

Does that make sense, and is it possible?

Which now makes me wonder if there is some damage to the low range shift rail that I couldn't see, because I didn't remove it completely from t case.

 

[MandAtaco]

Here is close up pic (another crappy cell pic). I'm sure my shift rails are not chipped or broken...just a bad pic.

So do I need to reinstall the pill? I'm using Radesins triple sticks. The 2wd and 4hi seem to work as they should. Not doubting what your saying, just trying to be clear.
Is that what they call the interlock pin?
Does our T case have those little flat keys? I don't remember seeing any of those when I disassembled my case.

Love your 4runner BTW.

Thanks for the help

Sorry man, been at work then home dealing with the kids. Your right, the shift rails look normal from that angle.

These cases do have those flat keys in them, and they have to be installed correctly or they will cause things not the work properly. It took a little finesse to get the 3 of them in the right place and get the collar slid over them at the same time. I had to do it a couple times when I was playing with it, they can "pop out of place" but not necessarily fall all the way out. You need to make sure the shift collar can slide back and forth over them all the way or they will cause things to bind. That make any since?

I think you need to take the case back apart, sounds like something isn't sitting in there correctly. Also if your not "twin sticking" the case internally, I would put the pill back in.

 

[MandAtaco]

I didn't take very many pics when I had mine appart, but the red circle is where the flat pin is. There are 3 of them total.

 

[owyheerat]

Sorry man, been at work then home dealing with the kids. Your right, the shift rails look normal from that angle.

These cases do have those flat keys in them, and they have to be installed correctly or they will cause things not the work properly. It took a little finesse to get the 3 of them in the right place and get the collar slid over them at the same time. I had to do it a couple times when I was playing with it, they can "pop out of place" but not necessarily fall all the way out. You need to make sure the shift collar can slide back and forth over them all the way or they will cause things to bind. That make any since?

I think you need to take the case back apart, sounds like something isn't sitting in there correctly. Also if your not "twin sticking" the case internally, I would put the pill back in.

No worries, i really appreciate the insight. I just got home from work myself and I'm too tired to work on it tonight. I will take it apart tomorrow after work and try to get see what is going on. I really hope I can figure this out. My t case has always worked flawlessly up to now.

Isn't a triple stick with duals the same (in function) as twin sticks with one case? I know some guys take the pill out, so they can have double low 2wd.

Thanks again

Durwin

 

[MandAtaco]

No worries, i really appreciate the insight. I just got home from work myself and I'm too tired to work on it tonight. I will take it apart tomorrow after work and try to get see what is going on. I really hope I can figure this out. My t case has always worked flawlessly up to now.

Isn't a triple stick with duals the same (in function) as twin sticks with one case? I know some guys take the pill out, so they can have double low 2wd.

Thanks again

Durwin

Yea exact same function.

Modifying the case internally just allows you to run it in 2wd low. Where as just running twin sticks themselves without modifying the shift fork, you still have to be in 4wd before the case will shift into low range. You just do it with two sticks instead of one.

Here's mine modified.
<div style="position:relative;height:0;padding-bottom:56.25%"><iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/w12Poarzaag?ecver=2" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" style="position:absolute;width:100%;height:100%;left:0" allowfullscreen></iframe></div>

Let us know what you find out!

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Wish I would have seen this earlier.
Leave the pill out. As stated, that pill needs to be removed if you're running twin/triple sticks. No worries there [emoji1360]
I also think you are not able to turn the output due to reduction. I know I tried the same thing and couldn't. Have you tried spinning the input shaft when in low? If you can- and the output spins slowly and freely- you shouldn't have anything to worry about.
How are you sealing all the cases and adaptors together? Make sure you use an RTV and good a good seal- oil leaks are annoying. It's been 7+ years ago since I did my duals, and I didn't know any better, and just used the paper gaskets Marlin sent in the kit. The cases seeped and it was annoying for sure.
Nice work on tackling this project [emoji1360] Looks like you're doin a great job to me.
Also, parts don't move so well without any grease or oil on them yet, so while you don't want anything jammed or bound up, things may not move super easily and freely without any lube on the parts.

 

[Rockdawg84]

x2 just got on and saw this. the info your getting is absolutely correct. pull it apart and make sure nothing is broken, but definitely leave that interlock pin out. Better to find out now than when you have it all back together and filled with oil. It's a pain to get it done but the result is one of the best mods you will ever do.

keep up the good work.

Sam