Transfer case troubles...need help

[owyheerat]

Yea exact same function.

Modifying the case internally just allows you to run it in 2wd low. Where as just running twin sticks themselves without modifying the shift fork, you still have to be in 4wd before the case will shift into low range. You just do it with two sticks instead of one.

Let us know what you find out!

Ok that helps clarify. And to be sure, do I have to grind a portion of the low range shift rail off, like in the link you sent me? Correct?
I'm gonna take the back off (again) tonight when I get home and see what is going on. I will keep this thread updated. I really hope I didn't loose those keys.

Wish I would have seen this earlier.
Leave the pill out. As stated, that pill needs to be removed if you're running twin/triple sticks. No worries there [emoji1360]
I also think you are not able to turn the output due to reduction. I know I tried the same thing and couldn't. Have you tried spinning the input shaft when in low? If you can- and the output spins slowly and freely- you shouldn't have anything to worry about.
How are you sealing all the cases and adaptors together? Make sure you use an RTV and good a good seal- oil leaks are annoying. It's been 7+ years ago since I did my duals, and I didn't know any better, and just used the paper gaskets Marlin sent in the kit. The cases seeped and it was annoying for sure.
Nice work on tackling this project [emoji1360] Looks like you're doin a great job to me.
Also, parts don't move so well without any grease or oil on them yet, so while you don't want anything jammed or bound up, things may not move super easily and freely without any lube on the parts.

Thanks for the insight, and the compliment on tackling this.
Yes, I'm using Toyota FIPG (black). My kit didn't come with gaskets, but the instructions stated that I needed to use a sealant.
I know what you're saying about it being harder to turn due to reduction, but I don't think that is the case. When I shift it into 4lo, I can turn the input (I've been calling it the output) about an 1/8", then it comes to a hard stop. I think something is out of place or broken (I hope not) inside the t case.

x2 just got on and saw this. the info your getting is absolutely correct. pull it apart and make sure nothing is broken, but definitely leave that interlock pin out. Better to find out now than when you have it all back together and filled with oil. It's a pain to get it done but the result is one of the best mods you will ever do.

keep up the good work.

Sam

Sam, thanks.
Yeah I definitely want to get this resolved while its on my bench.

 

[owyheerat]

Hope you can get it figured out!

Rocky,

Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[owyheerat]

Does this 'ring' just sit on the shaft? It was not attached to the gears, or shaft or shift rails...anything when I took the case apart.

Also, it appears my 'keys' are still in place:reddance:

Sorry for HUGE pics. I suck at adding pics.

Thanks for any and all help!

 

[owyheerat]

I got my t case disassembled. I can't see any damage to any parts. Everything looks good to me (rookie). Please take a look at my (HUGE) pics and let me know if you see anything out of place or wrong. I really want to get this put together and in the truck.

Thanks

Durwin

 

[owyheerat]

Please help me get this fiigured out...

[MENTION=96608]MandAtaco[/MENTION], [MENTION=116470]Tyler James Inc[/MENTION] and @ Rockdawg84.

I tore the t case apart last night (sorry again for HUGE pics), and inspected everything. I couldnt find any damage, cracks or anything that looked out of place. So I put it mostly back together (didn't attach extension housing and front and rear flange) and I didn't put any FIPG on...this was a dry fit. I tested it in every gear configuration and they all worked. I was so stoked. My wife and I were taking my son and daughter in law to dinner, so final assembly had to wait.

This morning I took the rear cover off, applied a liberal coat of FIPG, installed rear cover. Again I tested all gear configurations, and they all worked flawlessly. So I installed the extension cover and front and rear flanges. I tested all gear configurations again, just to be sure. All of the gears work except 4lo in t case. The same gear that instigated the disassembly.

So, to be sure, I removed the rear flange and tried to rotate in 4lo...no go. I then removed extension housing, and tried to rotate in 4lo...it works. Tried all the gear configurations with ext. housing off, and they all work flawlessly. I put the ext. housing back on, every gear but 4lo (in stock t case) works.

Why would the ext. housing prevent the input and output shafts from turning? And why only in 4lo?

I'm frustrated and confused.

Please help me figure this out.

Thanks

Durwin

 

[MandAtaco]

To answer one question, you will have grind down the shift fork in order to run the shift rails independently, IE to get 2wd Low.

You should be able to easily spin the case no matter what gear you are in. I can spin mine by hand easily with the case and the crawler in low range. I don't see anything obvious by looking at your pics, I wish mine was apart so I could compare for you. It seems to me like something on the main shaft is still binding up when its assembled. The extension housing is probably putting just enough pressure on it when you tighten it down to lock it up.

With the extension housing still off, try putting the case in low range, put some pressure on the main shaft, and turn it by hand a few times and see if maybe something "syncs and settles" when while you try this. A couple thousands would probably be enough.

 

[MandAtaco]

The Gold ring is a synchronizer. It helps two spinning pieces come together. I believe it just floats in there.

For future reference...

....

 

[owyheerat]

The Gold ring is a synchronizer. It helps two spinning pieces come together. I believe it just floats in there.

For future reference...

....

Thanks for the insight. If I don't grind the foot of the shift rail, I believe I will have low range 2wd if I engage the crawl box? correct? This is according to Rory at Radesigns. He said if I remove 'pill' and grind the foot off, I will have double low. Does this sound right?

I did try to put some pressure on the output shaft, but it still turned in 4lo.
So I put just 1 bolt in ext. housing and held it in place. I was able to turn it.
I put 1 more bolt in (1 top and 1 bottom), with the 2nd bolt in, I can't turn it.

I wonder, when I heard the loud pop and I know now that it popped the 'pill' out of place, if it slightly bent the low range shift rail. So with the ext. housing off the 'shaft' can move very slightly side to side, but with the ext. housing on it's not allowed to move? Does that make sense?

It almost seems if I could install a gasket, it would shim the ext. housing off the rear case enough for everything to work. I don't want to 'half a**' it though, and have problems (leaks, etc.) down the road.

Thanks again. I really appreciate the help.

Durwin

 

[Rockdawg84]

I would think a bent fork before a shift rail, but honestly something has to be bent if it is binding up with just two bolts. I would say call low Range and see if they had a set of used rails and forks but they were the ones who encouraged you to suck the housing in by the bolts to start with. I'm sorry you are having this problem. it sucks when this stuff happens. is there any chance that the housing is cracked or tweaked? Just spitballing here.

 

[MandAtaco]

Yea, its really hard to diagnosis without being there. Something is broke/bent/not seating correctly if its binding up. I wouldn't plan on using a gasket to "space out" the extension housing. What ever is wrong needs to be fixed or your going to have issues down the road.

Yes you can still have 2wd low by just using the crawl box in low range and leaving the rear box in 2wd high. You could have 2wd "ultra low" by being able to also throw the rear case in 2wd low.

I had to grind down my shift rail to get my rad designs twin stick adapter to fully shift the Low range shift rail. I ground mine flat with the rest of the shift rail because it was easier to do, you may be able to just bevel it back. Before I did that, I couldn't get the low range shift rail to fully engage toward the rear of the case. The little dog that fits down into the shift rail would bind up against the raised part of the shift rail.

Before I ground it down....


Figures, I didn't get a pic afterwards but I just ground it down flat. I don't know if that was just something with my case, or all cases, but it definitely would not shift before I did that.

Sorry I can't be more help with the binding issue, bring it down to Vegas and we'll take a look! LOL

 

[owyheerat]

I would think a bent fork before a shift rail, but honestly something has to be bent if it is binding up with just two bolts. I would say call low Range and see if they had a set of used rails and forks but they were the ones who encouraged you to suck the housing in by the bolts to start with. I'm sorry you are having this problem. it sucks when this stuff happens. is there any chance that the housing is cracked or tweaked? Just spitballing here.

Sam, thanks. Yeah I started this install febuary 8th...I'm sooo ready to be done with it.

I stated this before, but I think the reason it wouldn't go together easily at first, is I had my t case in 4lo. I'm frustrated with Low Range. They didn't send any instructions with the kit. They emailed them when I called, but it says nothing about having the tcase in neutral (which is what I did the 2nd time, and it slipped right together). I also sent a pic (that shows tcase in 4lo) to there 'tech' when I was having problems getting cases together. He never said to shift into neutral.

My case has always worked flawlessly up til now.

I can't see any cracks or tweaks. It's definitely possible though.

If there was a fork or rail bent, or if the case was cracked or tweaked, wouldn't I have trouble turning the input shaft in all gears?

 

[owyheerat]

Yea, its really hard to diagnosis without being there. Something is broke/bent/not seating correctly if its binding up. I wouldn't plan on using a gasket to "space out" the extension housing. What ever is wrong needs to be fixed or your going to have issues down the road.

Yes you can still have 2wd low by just using the crawl box in low range and leaving the rear box in 2wd high. You could have 2wd "ultra low" by being able to also throw the rear case in 2wd low.

I had to grind down my shift rail to get my rad designs twin stick adapter to fully shift the Low range shift rail. I ground mine flat with the rest of the shift rail because it was easier to do, you may be able to just bevel it back. Before I did that, I couldn't get the low range shift rail to fully engage toward the rear of the case. The little dog that fits down into the shift rail would bind up against the raised part of the shift rail.

Before I ground it down....


Figures, I didn't get a pic afterwards but I just ground it down flat. I don't know if that was just something with my case, or all cases, but it definitely would not shift before I did that.

Sorry I can't be more help with the binding issue, bring it down to Vegas and we'll take a look! LOL

That is sound advice, I'm just so frustrated. I really want to complete this mod.

Mine shifts fine with the 'foot' on, but if I have to take it back apart, I will grind it off, so I will have 'double low 2wd'.

I wish I knew more about the tcase and gears (i'm learning lot though). I want to know why it will turn in all gears, except low range (in tcase). To clarify, I've been saying the trouble is in 4lo, which it is, but it's the same in 2lo. So it's definetly the hi low side of the shift rail / fork. And it works fine if the ext. housing if removed.

Arghhh...

BTW, I was in Vegas the weekend before I started this project. If I would have only known....

 

[MandAtaco]

I get it... Super frustrating. Nothing like working on something that should be easy, then its not.

Another thing to check. Did the detent ball fall out? Is it stuck in the shift rail track causing the shift rail to hang up some how? Did you pull them detent balls and springs when you pulled it apart the first time?

 

[owyheerat]

I get it... Super frustrating. Nothing like working on something that should be easy, then its not.

Another thing to check. Did the detent ball fall out? Is it stuck in the shift rail track causing the shift rail to hang up some how? Did you pull them detent balls and springs when you pulled it apart the first time?

I did pull them out, and I'm confident they are installed correctly. Its a good thought though.

The pics show where ext. housing is contacting t case...on the bearing. ?
Why would this prevent rotation of shaft, and why only in low range?

Durwin

 

[owyheerat]

GAAAWWD, I even resized my pics...and there still fricken HUGE...

Sorry

 

[Rockdawg84]

Sam, thanks. Yeah I started this install February 8th...I'm sooo ready to be done with it.

I can't see any cracks or tweaks. It's definitely possible though.

If there was a fork or rail bent, or if the case was cracked or tweaked, wouldn't I have trouble turning the input shaft in all gears?

not necessarily as the shift rail would be at differing depths into the rear housing in different gears. inspect the high low rail and the extension housing where they meet up for anything that is shiny and looks like a new place where they are rubbing or contacting.

 

[rkntoy]

You get this figured out yet? Sort of glad that my finger is not yet back in action so I can keep learning.

Did you put in a body lift first? Too much time waiting to get going is making me rethink hacking up my floor.

 

[owyheerat]

Update...

So after disassembling my (stock) t case multiple times and still coming up with the same results (see above posts). I decided to remove the crawl box (again).

Well, it appears there is nothing wrong with my stock t case (I don't think). I am able to shift into 2 lo and hi, and 4 lo and hi, and can rotate the input shaft by hand in all gears. When in low range, i verified that output shaft(s) turn and a reduced rate.

So, as another step in the process of elimination, I removed the adapter from the Inchworm built dual case, and bolted it (adapter only) to my t case. Everything works as above.

Then I placed crawl box (inchworm dual case) on my t case and clamped it in place (temporarily). Hi range gears (in t case) both 2wd and 4wd, I can rotate the input shaft and the output shaft(s) turn. But when I shift t case into low range (2wd or 4wd), I can no longer turn the input shaft.

WTH???

I can not see anything (obvious to the naked eye) that is machined or put together incorrectly that would cause this.

As a reminder, this is a complete Inchworm kit that I bought from Low Range Offroad. Built dual case, t case adapter plate, and tranny adapter plate.

Any suggestions or insight greatly appreciated. I'm at my wits end...

Thanks

Durwin

 

[owyheerat]

You get this figured out yet? Sort of glad that my finger is not yet back in action so I can keep learning.

Did you put in a body lift first? Too much time waiting to get going is making me rethink hacking up my floor.

Hey rkntoy, thanks for checking in. See prior post...no I can't seem to finish this 'little' project!

No I do not have a body lift, so I had to cut the floor a little...

 

[rkntoy]

Hey rkntoy, thanks for checking in. See prior post...no I can't seem to finish this 'little' project!

No I do not have a body lift, so I had to cut the floor a little...

Bummer. This is one of the things keeping me from tackling this until the feeling in my finger comes back.

Hopefully it all comes together soon...