Millerad1651
New member
Better have a lot of popcorn ready...mine ran out soI had to finally comment.
Transmission cooler: to by-pass the radiator or not to by-pass it
- Thread starter Drcoffee
- Start date
Better have a lot of popcorn ready...mine ran out soI had to finally comment.
ALBPM
New member
HaHa!!!
I already commented and went to COSTCO and got a case of Popcorn on the way home last night..:thumb3:
the great him
Elite Member
i think this should be a sticky lol:roadkill:
Drcoffee,
I appreciate your comment but cooling systems are regulated by thermostats. The oil cooler on my car goes though a thermostat. And thats becaues cold oil is just as bad as hot oil, same goes for trans fluid. Coolers are not physically adjusted on track cars but they are modulated and I do agree with you that bypassing the cooler will not modulate the temperature.
When I added my cooler I was concerned about the trans running to cold. I even started a thread on here about it. The feeling I got from the members was not to be worried, but I was and thats why I added a temp gauge to my system. I monitored temps before adding the cooler and continue to do so now with the cooler. imo if you are going to modify vechiles way from oem specs, either for quality or performance, it is your responsibility to know what's going on.
Regardless I have added the cooler bypassed the rad and I run about 10 degress cooler than I did with the rad. I am very pleased with the peace of mind I have keeping the systems seperate. If I problems in the future by adding weight or running to cold I will adjust the system as required. If this is beyond your capabilities than I would agree with you, Drcoffee, and I would suggest to someone to stick with the oem system as it is proven, but as I said not supperior because it was designed by toyota.
Drcoffee
Senior Member
I consider the source before taking advice from anyone. The "cult of 6" is not on my list of acceptable advice givers.
Optimal temp range? Okay I'll put his credentials up against yours all day long.
Technical Questions and Answers - Pit Stop
From the October, 2011 issue of Hot Rod Magazine
By Marlan Davis
"But what is the optimum auto trans fluid temperature, and is there such as thing as too cold or too hot a temperature? In a perfect world you want to keep auto trans fluid temperatures between 175 and 200 degrees F, although I wouldn’t panic with a real-world 150- to 225- degree range. You don’t want to lean on the trans below 150 degrees, any more than you’d lead-foot a cold engine. On the high-end side, you could even slide by at 275 degrees for a short time during a long hillclimb but at the cost of considerably shorter fluid life. By 300 degrees you’re not only killing fluid longevity, but internal trans parts are melting down as well"
So go argue with Mr. Davis. I'm done with your "prove it" defense. Qyota Now refute it with something more than "I don't believe you" Where's your numbers? Where's your source? And tbst don't count.
brian4t: 100,000 miles??? Really?? you must be a Chrysler owner. I've never had to rebuild a transmission in my 30 years of driving and 30+ vehicles and I've head plenty of cars go well over 100k miles.
*But that's a good way to live. Have low expectations and you'll never be disappointed.
additional sources:
OIL TEMPERATURE MEASURED AT CONVERTER OUTLET TO COOLER
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quicksilvr
New member
Well, your vaunted Mr. Davis should have it out with your vaunted Toyota engineers.
With the stock cooler, your transmission fluid runs under 150 degree's about 80% of the time in fall/winter/spring.
And for emphasis I'll quote a better movie than Forrest Gump....
....a man loudly passes gas....."put THAT in your book!" ~Dances with Wolves
With the stock cooler, your transmission fluid runs under 150 degree's about 80% of the time in fall/winter/spring.
And for emphasis I'll quote a better movie than Forrest Gump....
....a man loudly passes gas....."put THAT in your book!" ~Dances with Wolves
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Drcoffee
Senior Member
Sources? Or just your extensive knowledge of annectdotal evidence? Oh wait, we're just suppose to take your word for it. Got it.
I stand corrected.
I asked that you come back with more than "I don't believe you" but if that's all you have, I guess that's what we'll get.
Holy smokes! Look how fast the cult chimes in with their "Likes" Atta boy Qyota and pdx650 got your cheerleaders behind you. tbst must be in the john.
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Qyota
New member
My numbers and my source? Why, I'm glad you asked! With my scangaugeII, I see temps ranging from ambient air temp to around 180F, depending on the air temp, driving conditions, and a lot of other factors. Certainly well within the range your source suggests is optimal. Note he doesn't say anything about the trans fluid being "too cold", only that you shouldn't "lean" on it when cold. But when I do need to "lean on it", say to enter 55mph traffic from a stop, after a cold start-up, the trans fluid would be JUST AS COLD as if I had the fluid running through the radiator anyway. And it warms up FASTER being bypassed since it isn't being actively cooled by your super-efficient built-in cooler. Again, I'd argue that in cool/cold temps, the bypass gets the fluid in the "optimal" range faster than the in-radiator cooler does.
So, that's my actual experience on the subject. If you'd like, I can start recording temperature readings on my various comings and goings, and include things like air temp and driving conditions (towing, load, speed, etc.). I could put it together in a nice spreadsheet and graph things out for you.
But, you know what, F that.
So, that's my actual experience on the subject. If you'd like, I can start recording temperature readings on my various comings and goings, and include things like air temp and driving conditions (towing, load, speed, etc.). I could put it together in a nice spreadsheet and graph things out for you.
But, you know what, F that.
Drcoffee
Senior Member
WTF! That's your evidence and source??? I've been badgered to give something concrete and you give me your scangauge??? And what part of what I quoted couldn't you read? I guess when Mr. Davis says don't lean on it below 150, that has a different meaning to you.? Words have meaning. Don't lean on it below 150 means its too cold and you can damage the transmission. I know he has to write at a 8th grade level for his readers but maybe he should drop it to a 3rd grade level for you. How do I debate this kind of garbage.
Let me add this. You live in WI and run 180 all day long. What about the people in the south where it is hot and humid and the air to liquid coolers are less efficient than in the cooler/dryer WI air?
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quicksilvr
New member
Yes, I'm making this all up.
No. If my truck is running, I know what my ATF temp is. So....I use my eyeballs, and I watch the temperature. Yes, technically it is anecdotal evidence. In this situation....it's precisely what the Dr. (ha, pun intended) ordered.
I'll humor you and post actual temps. Last week, ambient air was in the 50's. One day I drove about 75 miles, and the ATF broke 150 degrees one time. Cruising down the interstate for 50 miles, it was 142.
(I can't believe I'm arguing with this guy. Really, I can't decide how serious he is. Is he really honestly refuting this stuff, or is he trolling? Or a little of both at this point? He had like 250 fairly legitimate posts before he went on this transmission cooler koo-koo wonky donk binge)
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Drcoffee
Senior Member
I Quit! I can't believe I give a rational counterpoint to a topic and I get the results of one truck, from one guy, with one scangauge. And I'm sure I'll get a few more hard sources with their hard evidence soon to follow.
You asked me for the ideal range. I gave you the information from an industry leading hotrod journalist who has done his due dilligence. I fully expected you to come back with a technical manual from Aisin saying the temps should be X and yada yada. But no.
I'm done on this thread. I've said my peace (over and over and over again) Believe what you want. Do what you want. I've raised awareness and that's the most I can do.
I hope we can meet again in a different thread in a more collegiate manor.
Cheers
:surfer:
You asked me for the ideal range. I gave you the information from an industry leading hotrod journalist who has done his due dilligence. I fully expected you to come back with a technical manual from Aisin saying the temps should be X and yada yada. But no.
I'm done on this thread. I've said my peace (over and over and over again) Believe what you want. Do what you want. I've raised awareness and that's the most I can do.
I hope we can meet again in a different thread in a more collegiate manor.
Cheers
:surfer:
brian4t
New member
I have worked for a Dodge Service department and I won't disagree. They made some of the worst transmissions out there. No, I've never owned one.
Yes, 100K for any make. There is a reason most manufactures put a 40-60-100K drivetrain warranty on their vehicles. I don't have low expectations, rather, stay out of Disney Land. I've owned a Chevy that decided it wouldn't go into reverse at 106K and a Honda Accord where the Torque Converter **** the bed @ 112K. Should I mention a Land Rover Discovery that decided not to lock up in 4th at 86k? Let us know when you hit the one mil mark with your perfectly regulated transmission...
Pikeman
New member
Dr. Coffee- I did not purposefully single you out in my post for a reason. I posted data from a good source. Most of which backed up what you were saying. I also put in the various questions one needs to ask themselves in order to make their own personal decision on if this mod is what they need and then which way they should go about it should they choose to perform this mod. Threads and posts within them should provide data in which people can use to make their own decisions based on personal experience of others( those that have done a mod and been able to record data to if it worked or not) sound technical advice from people in the industry or other experts.
Now someone else already corrected you that radiant heat will transfer forward(actually in all directions) since it radiates outward from a central point. Based on your logic I should not feel any heat from holding my hand in front of the grill (6-8 inches in front of radiator)of my 4Runner after it has been running. This is a very simple experiment we all can do and prove that wrong.. So I guess heat will radiate forward. That being said the further away from the heat source the cooler it will get.
Next one is that my cooler is mounted against the radiator not 4-5 inches in front as you stated. In fact there is a reason that the professionals and installation instructions tell you to mount against the radiator and that is a smoother air flow and preferably in direct line of air flow from the fan. The A/C condenser does not take up the the full foot print of the radiator and is also mounted tight to it to aid in air flow.
Now a little background on me and my experiences. I have owned about the same number of cars as you... but owning cars doesnt mean you know anything about them or how they work or are maintained. I have been rebuilding both motorcycle and car engines for over 30 years worked on a couple race teams, built several classic cars and hot rods for other people. I also helped establish a new maintenance program for the Army 3 years ago and currently my civilian job is training Army mechanics. That being said I do not know everything (really crappy with electrical) and why I go to reputable sources for information.
NOT ALL MODS ARE NEEDED BY EVERYONE so decide on your own if you want or need to do a mod based on your own use. I do not make blanket comments on mods saying you have to do this or you have to do that or that was stupid why did you do that(unless I know you and just giving a hard time) but not everyone needs to lift their truck and put big tires on it and not everyone needs to add an external cooler or bypass the radiator.
Now someone else already corrected you that radiant heat will transfer forward(actually in all directions) since it radiates outward from a central point. Based on your logic I should not feel any heat from holding my hand in front of the grill (6-8 inches in front of radiator)of my 4Runner after it has been running. This is a very simple experiment we all can do and prove that wrong.. So I guess heat will radiate forward. That being said the further away from the heat source the cooler it will get.
Next one is that my cooler is mounted against the radiator not 4-5 inches in front as you stated. In fact there is a reason that the professionals and installation instructions tell you to mount against the radiator and that is a smoother air flow and preferably in direct line of air flow from the fan. The A/C condenser does not take up the the full foot print of the radiator and is also mounted tight to it to aid in air flow.
Now a little background on me and my experiences. I have owned about the same number of cars as you... but owning cars doesnt mean you know anything about them or how they work or are maintained. I have been rebuilding both motorcycle and car engines for over 30 years worked on a couple race teams, built several classic cars and hot rods for other people. I also helped establish a new maintenance program for the Army 3 years ago and currently my civilian job is training Army mechanics. That being said I do not know everything (really crappy with electrical) and why I go to reputable sources for information.
NOT ALL MODS ARE NEEDED BY EVERYONE so decide on your own if you want or need to do a mod based on your own use. I do not make blanket comments on mods saying you have to do this or you have to do that or that was stupid why did you do that(unless I know you and just giving a hard time) but not everyone needs to lift their truck and put big tires on it and not everyone needs to add an external cooler or bypass the radiator.
Qyota
New member
How convenient for you to leave now! Actual data scares you, doesn't it?
How's this work for you then...do you heat your transmission up to 150 before driving your truck? You must, because if you drive it while the fluid is below 150, you risk breaking something. The poor folks in seriously cold climates must have to replace their transmissions every damn day! Sucks to be them. Why didn't Toyota warn them! Maybe it's a secret plot to get them to buy aftermarket transmission pan warmers. That's got to be it.
And I think it's you that has the reading comprehension problem. I clearly said my temp varies between ambient air temp and about 180F. I never said it runs "180 all day long". Rarely is it that warm. And when it is, it usually is only for a brief time, then it cools down once the load on the engine is lessened.
Have fun getting help from your fellow forum cultists - you've shown yourself to be less than helpful to others, despite your best efforts to the contrary.
tbst
New member
Dude, it is really rude that you assume everyone is so dumb here that they won't be able to see through your convoluted bullcrap. Turning things around doesn't brainwash anyone except your buddies on infowars. Everyone else can think for themselves and aren't just going to slow the load of dog feces you are trying to shove down everyone's throat.
Now that people have called you out and asked you to give actual data, you realized that we are not as stupid as the people you normally spew your idiotic ideas on, and you are pissed!
Understandable.
The bottom line is that you have zero data to support any of your claims. You have not been willing to support your hypothesis with anything else other than "because I said so, if you don't agree with me you are stupid".
Your argument summarized: I have the cure to cancer. Everyone should stop taking chemotherapy because it is terrible for you. They should all start taking my medicine, Pill X! I am not willing to tell you what Pill X is. If you question me it is because you are not an oncologist and don't know sh!t about cancer. If you question me further, you are stupid. If you demand to see my data, I will tell you that the burden of proof is on you that it doesn't work. However, I refuse to publish any data about my drug at all. What I can tell you is that chemotherapy doesn't work, you shouldn't do it, and only stupid people who don't want to live do. I quit!
:zoom:
quicksilvr
New member
He gives Alex Jones fans a bad name.
I'm an Alex Jones fan.
I'm an Alex Jones fan.
Make that 2 guys with 2 scan gauges. My numbers are identical, almost exactly.
quicksilvr
New member
Had to post this, for anyone that finds this thread and reads it all the way through.
Straight out of the Toyota FSM, page DI-163:
"Perform the test at normal operating ATF temperature 50 - 80 °C (122 - 176 °F)."
It also narrows the range for some other diagnostics, such as checking fluid level: page DI-164:
"Drive the vehicle so that the engine and transmission are
at normal operating temperature.
Fluid temp.: 70 - 80 °C (158 - 176 °F)"
Straight out of the Toyota FSM, page DI-163:
"Perform the test at normal operating ATF temperature 50 - 80 °C (122 - 176 °F)."
It also narrows the range for some other diagnostics, such as checking fluid level: page DI-164:
"Drive the vehicle so that the engine and transmission are
at normal operating temperature.
Fluid temp.: 70 - 80 °C (158 - 176 °F)"
JasetheDamager
New member
I'm sitting here right now, having just read through this entire thread in one session, and I'm kind of in disbelief that I have a girlfriend and a job, and that I've actually lost my virginity
For those of you who actually posted hard data, especially Pikeman, thank you. I bought my rig with 131,000k and promptly added an external tranny cooler because I made an educated choice based on speaking to people who maintain and build vehicles for a living here in SoCal. Next up, I'm replacing my radiator with a Koyo. In my opinion, best of both worlds. I agree you should do your own research, but most people don't have access to trained experts, hence relying upon this forum for quality advice. I've been uniformly impressed with the advice I've received from various members on this forum, yet I've always sought a professional opinion to validate that advice. And more often than not, those professionals, ranging from Sonoran Steel to Outdoor Logic to my local garage, have agreed with info I gathered from here.
So I for one will keep using these forums. And I'll keep having confidence in my rig. Thanks to the genuine posters who actually give a damn about their fellow T4R owners!
For those of you who actually posted hard data, especially Pikeman, thank you. I bought my rig with 131,000k and promptly added an external tranny cooler because I made an educated choice based on speaking to people who maintain and build vehicles for a living here in SoCal. Next up, I'm replacing my radiator with a Koyo. In my opinion, best of both worlds. I agree you should do your own research, but most people don't have access to trained experts, hence relying upon this forum for quality advice. I've been uniformly impressed with the advice I've received from various members on this forum, yet I've always sought a professional opinion to validate that advice. And more often than not, those professionals, ranging from Sonoran Steel to Outdoor Logic to my local garage, have agreed with info I gathered from here.
So I for one will keep using these forums. And I'll keep having confidence in my rig. Thanks to the genuine posters who actually give a damn about their fellow T4R owners!
pdx650
Member
Brown gunk...
...is in my radiator. After the gunk dries, it has a powder-like consistency. I am almost certain it is a rust or corrosion of some kind. I'll take a photo of it next time.
The stuff collects to my radiator cap. I'm glad the engine didn't overheat from Virginia to Montana.
...is in my radiator. After the gunk dries, it has a powder-like consistency. I am almost certain it is a rust or corrosion of some kind. I'll take a photo of it next time.
The stuff collects to my radiator cap. I'm glad the engine didn't overheat from Virginia to Montana.
