Treating Your Rust

[wadle5]

Sorry to revive old thread but wanting couple questions answered. Is there any rubber under a 4runner which fluid film could cause problems with? Where not to spray to not affect brakes or exhaust. I'm thinking i can spray directly on muffler and my fancy exhaust tip which is already showing a little surface rust. Most videos i have watched peeps just leave the tires on and spray right up behind them (not seeming to be to careful they dont get it in the brakes) others pull all wheels off and mask around them. Just curious what most 4runner owners do

Brake lines, abs lines, bushingins, etc. Not too many and you pretty much can shoot around them, I just kept a towell handy to wipe of any overspray on rubber. My neighbor who is a master tech at the local dealership looked under mine and said comparatively mine is amazing clean and surface rust only, so I can vouch for fluid film. I just do it before winter and after winter. usually take a commercial de-greaser prior to applying. Also personal preference I don't think it smells that bad, or I just got used to it..or its the fumes. But comparatively to other car products/fluids its tolerable.

 

[Beaumont67]

What oil spray product did you use for the Jimmy? What is in that sprayer pic you've posted?

From Earlier Post:
The old spray gun (pictured above), is one I made up for spot undercoating & spraying steel brake lines.

Jimmy was a purchase off a flipper friend, from the original owner.
- senior 70 y/o guy, bought 2005 GMC new and had oil sprayed, every fall.
- why the exterior body plus frame & floor, was still solid
- former undercoat brand is unknown
While I use a wax-oil (Fluid Film or similar), and have it applied using a 2 post lift.
- proper spray equipment system (w/wands) costs, approx. $3,000
- using a hydraulic pump, to keep oil mist/fog at a minimum, less product waste & better oil yield
- commercial undercoat gun (as pictured), are around $500

 

[Keros]

Been doing some research on what I'm going to do about my undercarriage rust. Here's what I've turned up by asking the internet.

Apologies for the roughness of the format, this is straight from my notes file:

Mentions product called chassis saver
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/97178-rust-lower-parts-07-4runner-should-use-por15.html


Ok my stats report told me someone here was talking about me. I'm the manufacturer of Chassis Saver. I'm glad to hear good things being said. If anyone has any questions I'll be happy to help. Just to address the multi step POR-15 process:

Much of the multi-product hype is marketing. POR & Chassis Saver are chemically alike. They are moisture cure urethanes. Urethanes in general DO NOT have very good adhesion to smooth surfaces. The cleaner and metal prep sold by POR are a valid but worthless attempt to solve the deficiency that urethane exhibits on smooth steel. I've tested the method of degreasing and etching smooth steel a few times and never had any success improving adhesion. You can still get a sharp knife to peel the material. When steel is rough as with tight rust or a blast profile, adhesion is completely different. We only promote our product to be used in this manner. If you must coat smooth steel we recommend that you grind or sand with 60 grit paper and create a profile in the metal. Epoxies are the only type of coatings that will adhere to smooth steel with no more prep than degreasing. Self etch primer is not even necessary when using a 2K epoxy primer.

Eric Rosenthal
VP - Magnet Paints
[email protected]

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=131753&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=80
bead blaster
SpeedBlaster | Zendex Tool

Thread on TTORA where lots of people have come out saying their POR15 flaked off. Many are jumping to Rust Bullet
frame painting with rust bullet(many pics) - Page 2 - TTORA Forum

Rust bullet is an awesome product. I work in the metal finishing industry, and I can tell you that the more prep work you do, the better the results. ALWAYS. If you skimp on prep work, you might as well not even do it. If you miss one area, the rust will creep under the coatings.

Rust is caused by basic electrolysis. All it needs is air, metal and moisture. The metal is trying to revert back to its natural state. If you've got an unsealed portion (ie you missed a spot) it will begin to pit there and spread underneath your coatings. The whole point of a coating is to seal the base metal from air and moisture. Anytime you have an entry point, it will corrode its way through. Sometimes it'll be slow, sometimes it will be fast, but it will always happen. Also, having an abrasive finish on the metal will help prevent the spread. It gives the coating an anchor tooth pattern to hold on to.

Think of it like this:

smooth metal gives you a profile like this

---------------------

Roughened metal gives you a surface profile like this

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That anchor tooth pattern will give you a couple of benefits. For starters when you damage your coating, if you didn't prep it properly, you will get chunks coming up rather than scratches or chips. It reduces the amount of damage done by impacts and helps to localize them. It also makes the spread of rust slower. It has to corrode the unprotected portion of metal to a deeper depth before it can begin spreading.

You want your metal to have a finish of SSPC SP-10, or NACE No. 2. Basically that means that its a near white metal finish and 95% of your surface is contaminent free. You also want to leave about a 200 Ra profile. I know what the directions say, but in both our and our customers experience that typically gives the best results.

If you really are concerned with the longevity of the finish, thats the way to go. Just be sure to keep it up and repair any damage before driving on salted roads or letting it sit too long. Just remember that of you drive on salted roads or on the beach, that salt increases the conductive capability of water, meaning you stuff will corrode exponentially faster. It makes it that much more crucial that the prep work and upkeep be done properly. There is no substitution for a sand blasted finish.

More Rust bullet support and POR15 disdain
por 15 vs. rust bullet - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board

-------

I've read all the threads linked above in detail. My conclusion is repainting with rust bullet after 150 grit sandpapering any remaining paint, removing any rust scale, and surface prep as per Rust Bullet's instruction, is the best way to go... if one wants to repaint.

 

[Ther00ster]

Been doing some research on what I'm going to do about my undercarriage rust. Here's what I've turned up by asking the internet.

Apologies for the roughness of the format, this is straight from my notes file:

Mentions product called chassis saver
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/97178-rust-lower-parts-07-4runner-should-use-por15.html


Ok my stats report told me someone here was talking about me. I'm the manufacturer of Chassis Saver. I'm glad to hear good things being said. If anyone has any questions I'll be happy to help. Just to address the multi step POR-15 process:

Much of the multi-product hype is marketing. POR & Chassis Saver are chemically alike. They are moisture cure urethanes. Urethanes in general DO NOT have very good adhesion to smooth surfaces. The cleaner and metal prep sold by POR are a valid but worthless attempt to solve the deficiency that urethane exhibits on smooth steel. I've tested the method of degreasing and etching smooth steel a few times and never had any success improving adhesion. You can still get a sharp knife to peel the material. When steel is rough as with tight rust or a blast profile, adhesion is completely different. We only promote our product to be used in this manner. If you must coat smooth steel we recommend that you grind or sand with 60 grit paper and create a profile in the metal. Epoxies are the only type of coatings that will adhere to smooth steel with no more prep than degreasing. Self etch primer is not even necessary when using a 2K epoxy primer.

Eric Rosenthal
VP - Magnet Paints
[email protected]

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=131753&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=80
bead blaster
SpeedBlaster | Zendex Tool

Thread on TTORA where lots of people have come out saying their POR15 flaked off. Many are jumping to Rust Bullet
frame painting with rust bullet(many pics) - Page 2 - TTORA Forum

Rust bullet is an awesome product. I work in the metal finishing industry, and I can tell you that the more prep work you do, the better the results. ALWAYS. If you skimp on prep work, you might as well not even do it. If you miss one area, the rust will creep under the coatings.

Rust is caused by basic electrolysis. All it needs is air, metal and moisture. The metal is trying to revert back to its natural state. If you've got an unsealed portion (ie you missed a spot) it will begin to pit there and spread underneath your coatings. The whole point of a coating is to seal the base metal from air and moisture. Anytime you have an entry point, it will corrode its way through. Sometimes it'll be slow, sometimes it will be fast, but it will always happen. Also, having an abrasive finish on the metal will help prevent the spread. It gives the coating an anchor tooth pattern to hold on to.

Think of it like this:

smooth metal gives you a profile like this

---------------------

Roughened metal gives you a surface profile like this

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That anchor tooth pattern will give you a couple of benefits. For starters when you damage your coating, if you didn't prep it properly, you will get chunks coming up rather than scratches or chips. It reduces the amount of damage done by impacts and helps to localize them. It also makes the spread of rust slower. It has to corrode the unprotected portion of metal to a deeper depth before it can begin spreading.

You want your metal to have a finish of SSPC SP-10, or NACE No. 2. Basically that means that its a near white metal finish and 95% of your surface is contaminent free. You also want to leave about a 200 Ra profile. I know what the directions say, but in both our and our customers experience that typically gives the best results.

If you really are concerned with the longevity of the finish, thats the way to go. Just be sure to keep it up and repair any damage before driving on salted roads or letting it sit too long. Just remember that of you drive on salted roads or on the beach, that salt increases the conductive capability of water, meaning you stuff will corrode exponentially faster. It makes it that much more crucial that the prep work and upkeep be done properly. There is no substitution for a sand blasted finish.

More Rust bullet support and POR15 disdain
por 15 vs. rust bullet - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board

-------

I've read all the threads linked above in detail. My conclusion is repainting with rust bullet after 150 grit sandpapering any remaining paint, removing any rust scale, and surface prep as per Rust Bullet's instruction, is the best way to go... if one wants to repaint.

I have used por15 on my frame and rust bullet on my rock sliders/ skid plate . I like rust bullet because of less prep. Have to pour out the rust bullet to a different container. It harden fast. Also rust bullet drys faster then por15. I will some day go back and do rust bullet to my frame.

 

[Scramble]

Do like I did and just move from the northeast, that is the best rust protection you can get.

Easier said than done when you have a great job that you love & a nice house that you had built in 2006.

 

[BOSMECH]

Easier said than done when you have a great job that you love & a nice house that you had built in 2006.

That's true there are certain things I do miss back east.

 

[Scramble]

That's true there are certain things I do miss back east.

I'd love to move out west. There's a lot more wheelin' in other parts of the country. Rust prevention is a pain in the ass & takes up too much of my time during the warm months. But at least I have one of the cleanest 3rd Gens in the NE! :yo:

 

[TripleTS_T4R]

Just wanted to share a product that has amazed me.

A little background. I live in Pennsylvania and have owned 3 4runners. It has not been easy to keep the underside clean and free of rust. I bought all of them used, and thoroughly inspected each of them before purchase. My newest 4Runner, a 2006 Sport that I just picked up 3 weeks ago, suffers from surface rust on the undercarriage, just like nearly every other vehicle on the road where I live. I'm a person who loves his vehicles and takes care of them, so I needed to find a solution for the rust.

After days of research, and learning from my past mistakes (undercoating), I settled on this product: Amazon.com: Permatex 81773 Rust Treatment , 16 oz.: Automotive

So far I have most of my rear axle done, and have just started on my gas tank skid plate and rear frame rails. I can tell you this product is awesome. We first used it on my friend's 3rd gen, and painted over it with Rustoleum metal primer and paint. His underside looks new. About 1 bottle is all it takes to convert the entire underside of your vehicle.

All you have to do is simply wire wheel and scrape off loose rust, clean with soapy water, let dry and coat with the Permatex Rust Converter. So far I've used 3-4 coats on my rear axle.

Here are some crappy cell phone pictures that do not do the product justice:

One side of the axle done with 2 coats.

The product goes on white and foamy and dries HARD black as it converts the rust and makes it stable.

More pictures to follow...

[MENTION=79380]redbull9944[/MENTION] I didn't see where you posted those additional pictures. Interested in seeing how this stuff turns out once completed and been exposed to the air some time. Can you post some rough pics if you have any or the time to get some?

I have been going through here to see what I can do to handle the rust that I have on my 2004 T4R SE 4x4. I know there are tons of options out there and lots of opinions. I am in the information gathering mode and will comply it all and then make my decision based of an educated guess.

I would like to make a thread on the process which i probably will do but for now, the help and knowledge of redbull9944, Inv4drZm, willbgood, and others I am hopeful that I will figure it out in time before mid-October (just a deadline for myself before the fall/winter/holidays hit)

Redbull9944 thanks for the post and the pics in advance!

 

[UnderhungSea]

How do you apply it?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[OliviasDad]

I recently purchased a 2004 SR5 4WD from an individual in the Midwest. Upon inspection I noted a good bit of surface rust on the underside, but no structural issues. Looking over this board for resources (as well as others) I opted to do the following:

1. Remove any loose flakes and surface rust using a wire brush, drill brush etc.

2. Apply a rust converter. There are lots of products out there but I opted to use Corroseal, due to the low cost and apparent effectiveness. I bought a gallon of this stuff but I probably have a half gallon left after doing multiple coats. This stuff goes on like Elmer glue and is very easy to work with. I used a brush.

3. After the rust was converted, I considered applying POR-15 but decided the cost was a little more than I wanted to go initially, so instead I opted for an oil based rustoleum paint (numerous coats). I also decided not to use a rubberized undercoat because I would rather be able to monitor the rust overtime.

4. After the paint, I then applied Fluid Film (can get this stuff at Lowes or most auto stores) and man was this stuff greasy.

Still need to do some touchups here and there and will keep a close eye on it over the next few months but I'm happy with the results (see below).

Rust

After 1 coat of Corroseal (ultimately did 2-3 coats where necessary)

After paint and Fluid Film added

:cheers:

 

[rookervt]

Thanks for the detailed instructions. This is now on my to-do list.

 

[Flash Runner]

1. Remove any loose flakes and surface rust using a wire brush, drill brush etc.

2. Apply a rust converter. There are lots of products out there but I opted to use Corroseal, due to the low cost and apparent effectiveness. I bought a gallon of this stuff but I probably have a half gallon left after doing multiple coats. This stuff goes on like Elmer glue and is very easy to work with. I used a brush.

3. After the rust was converted, I considered applying POR-15 but decided the cost was a little more than I wanted to go initially, so instead I opted for an oil based rustoleum paint (numerous coats). I also decided not to use a rubberized undercoat because I would rather be able to monitor the rust overtime.

4. After the paint, I then applied Fluid Film (can get this stuff at Lowes or most auto stores) and man was this stuff greasy.

Well, this is something I've ignored long enough (I know, SHAME!). Luckily after it being a decade in the NE, and now in the south, it seems like its mostly surface rust (bar a few worse spots, I'll need to think of how to address, but not on the frame).

[MENTION=168540]OliviasDad[/MENTION] (lol funny handle) gave a great list that I was looking for. Would anyone add anything to it or change it? I'm thinking using something like PB Blaster to prime the rusty areas for the Wire wheel/brush to remove it?

The Before and After pics definitely puts me at ease doing this as it seems similar to mine.

Also, is everyone doing this on their backs with the rig up on stands? Or would it be worth it to see if I can rent a bay in a shop for a day to lift this up.
EDIT: Anything to avoid when painting (besides exhaust)? I'm normally a "mask-off-perfectionist" when painting anything, so It seems weird to just spray and not worry about getting the underbody behind the frame, etc..
TIA

 

[OliviasDad]

Well, this is something I've ignored long enough (I know, SHAME!). Luckily after it being a decade in the NE, and now in the south, it seems like its mostly surface rust (bar a few worse spots, I'll need to think of how to address, but not on the frame).

[MENTION=168540]OliviasDad[/MENTION] (lol funny handle) gave a great list that I was looking for. Would anyone add anything to it or change it? I'm thinking using something like PB Blaster to prime the rusty areas for the Wire wheel/brush to remove it?

The Before and After pics definitely puts me at ease doing this as it seems similar to mine.

Also, is everyone doing this on their backs with the rig up on stands? Or would it be worth it to see if I can rent a bay in a shop for a day to lift this up.
EDIT: Anything to avoid when painting (besides exhaust)? I'm normally a "mask-off-perfectionist" when painting anything, so It seems weird to just spray and not worry about getting the underbody behind the frame, etc..
TIA

Thanks. I've been pleasantly surprised how well its held up over a years time. I get under it for inspection every couple of months and touch up places that need it. I also apply Fluid Film every couple of months and I think this is what helps the most, I'm a believer in FF. Good luck!

 

[tv4184]

I recently purchased a 2004 SR5 4WD from an individual in the Midwest. Upon inspection I noted a good bit of surface rust on the underside, but no structural issues. Looking over this board for resources (as well as others) I opted to do the following:

2. Apply a rust converter. There are lots of products out there but I opted to use Corroseal, due to the low cost and apparent effectiveness. I bought a gallon of this stuff but I probably have a half gallon left after doing multiple coats. This stuff goes on like Elmer glue and is very easy to work with. I used a brush.

Still need to do some touchups here and there and will keep a close eye on it over the next few months but I'm happy with the results (see below).

Rust

:cheers:

Looks exactly like how mine looks right now. Were you able to get into all the nooks and crannies or did you just hit whatever you could that was visible?

 

[OliviasDad]

Looks exactly like how mine looks right now. Were you able to get into all the nooks and crannies or did you just hit whatever you could that was visible?

Hit whatever I could with a wire brush, scraped off the loose particles. Then hit everything I could with the rust converter, FF etc. Just work in sections, a little at a time.

 

[New_2_4runners]

I’m currently doing a frame swap and por15’d my frame after scrubbing it.

I believe it’s the right choice

 

[Terminator03]

I’m currently doing a frame swap and por15’d my frame after scrubbing it.

I believe it’s the right choice

Man, that’s a lot of work! The frame refinishing being the least of it. I’d dread stripping it to a bare frame then having to put it all back together! My dad owns a sandblasting company, so if I ever had the time (and could do without my truck for a large period of time) I’d be all set with surface prep anyway. Looks awesome!

 

[4RRUSMN]

Hi everyone! I just picked up a 2nd 4runner (for my wife). The second one is a true example of a southern truck and the frame is truly rust free. What should I do to keep it as rust free as possible since I live in the rustbelt...MN? My 1st 2007 4runner is my daily and I did rust prevention treatment, which I was not impressed 1 winter later. To begin with, the truck was a northern truck all its life, but the rust wasn't too, too bad considering what I've seen on here from time to time. It had plenty of surface rust, but it didn't scare my away when I saw it before buying. First, I rinsed the frame (outside and inside) with a hose and let it dry for a week. Then I used Eastwood Internal Coating (4 cans) for inside of the frame. My $0.02, that product does nothing. After 1 year, the inside of my frame looks the same as it did before I applied this product. Then, I used KBS (Klean, Blast, Seal) kit. It had a couple of good reviews on Tacoma forum, but after using it, I am not impressed. I used wire wheel on the frame, took my time...tried to get into as many spots as I could, but honestly, a wire wheel on a cordless drill only knocks off loose surface rust. It does not grind/remove any serious rust, especially where it's more than 1-2mm thick. I new the prep was the most important step, so I spent several hours wire wheeling. Phase 1 of the kit was degreasing it (spray the chemicals, rinse, dry). Phase 2, etch the exposed metal/rust (spray, rinse, dry). Phase 3, apply 2 coats of final paint. When everything was said and done, I must say, it looked great. I was pretty happy that I was able to get to most of the frame/difficult spots. However, after 1 winter, the rust came back in several spots. The more rust it had before, those spots looked the worst, although still way, way better than before. The worst spot was the rear part of the frame that supports rear bumper...not very essential, so I am not losing any sleep over it. Since than, I've touched up with Rustoleum rust converter (also, not impressed as it doesn't do much after a while), then coated the frame with bar & chain oil, drove through some dirt roads to build up a small layer of dust protection. Last week, I used 3 cans of spay can fluid film to hold me over this winter. But, based on personal experience, fluid film from a spray can only lasts a couple of months. So, I am not sure if I should try to wash the frame this winter at all and wash away whatever dirt/FF I have build up or not. Either way, I feel like what I've done was better than doing nothing.

Now to the 2nd 4runner we just picked up. My question....is there anything "good and proven" that I can use to paint the frame to protect it from rust, before I apply fluid film? I assume i'd have to degrease it and wash it if I should consider to paint it with something. This might be a challenge as most paint is recommended to apply in 50F+ degrees and my garage is not heated. Winter is already on the door step in MN so even if I apply fluid film, I don't have a few weeks to drive over gravel roads to build up a layer of dirt, plus, as I said, spray can FF only last a couple of months. I don't mind doing the work, but i'd prefer to do it once (the initial treatment if any), then maintain it once or twice a year with FF. Oh, and I will not use Rustoleum rust converter on the rust free frame as I think it does nothing. One more thing, should I even bother doing anything to the inside of the frame? Again, I am just leaning toward spraying some bar & chain oil / FF inside. Thanks in advance for advice.

 

[waypoint]

I have 2 methods:

Exterior (water-sprayed surfaces): Amsoil Metal Protect HD has been holding up very well here. Resists washing away better than than Fluid Film.

Interior (non-water-sprayed e.g. inside of boxed frame rails, that skinny radiator crossmember, door drains): Fluid Film has been my go-to, but last year I used CRC Corrosion Inhibitor and liked it better...goes on a bit thinner than Fluid Film and seeps into the metal seams, then dries in place.

 

[4RRUSMN]

Thank you!