trying to live healthier...

Dam, that's crazy! I always wondered what was in ND. Turns out oil and food.
I've driven through Cali. I-5 and the miles upon miles of fields but never could have imagined it was such a major producer. I agree mercury nothing to worry about as of now, however the thing that strikes me the most is how once again man has left their mark on the earth. And let's face it the thing to worry about right now is the lack of water. I think the average person takes the modern day grocery store for granted. We have basically everything you can think of year round, never do we consider how it got there.
 
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Dam, that's crazy! I always wondered what was in ND. Turns out oil and food.
I've driven through Cali. I-5 and the miles upon miles of fields but never could have imagined it was such a major producer. I agree mercury nothing to worry about as of now, however the thing that strikes me the most is how once again man has left their mark on the earth. And let's face it the thing to worry about right now is the lack of water. I think the average person takes the modern day grocery store for granted. We have basically everything you can think of year round, never do we consider how it got there.

We have just about the same amount of water that we have had for the last billion years or so. It's just moved somewhere else for a little while.
 
All these chemicals are very scary and all, but whoever posted upthread that we live more than twice as long as we did 500 years ago is exactly on point. We DO live longer, and have more children, and consume more per capita, than ever before, That's going to continue at an exponential pace until we've outgrown this planet's resources, and then most of us are going to suffer long lingering painful deaths. That, to me, is a lot scarier than some chemical in plastic that may or may not give me boobs.

BPA in plastic doesn't scare me. Peak Water scares me.
 
All these chemicals are very scary and all, but whoever posted upthread that we live more than twice as long as we did 500 years ago is exactly on point. We DO live longer, and have more children, and consume more per capita, than ever before, That's going to continue at an exponential pace until we've outgrown this planet's resources, and then most of us are going to suffer long lingering painful deaths. That, to me, is a lot scarier than some chemical in plastic that may or may not give me boobs.

BPA in plastic doesn't scare me. Peak Water scares me.

Ah grasshopper, you are right...and wrong lol! We do consume more per capita but the children thing? That's dropping. Yes, we are putting more people on the planet but the pace is slowing. Here is an excerpt from that website everybody says sucks:

The global growth rate peaked at 2.2% in 1963, and has declined to below 1.1% as of 2012.[7] Total annual births were highest in the late 1980s at about 138 million,[8] and are now expected to remain essentially constant at their 2011 level of 134 million, while deaths number 56 million per year, and are expected to increase to 80 million per year by 2040.[9]

The UN projects steadily declining population growth in the near future, with the global population expected to become between 8.3 and 10.9 billion by 2050

Now, this article is footnoted all the way back to caveman times so it has validity. The reason our population grew so fast during the early years is simple: Families wanted to have a bunch of kids to help them out. As families started making money the birthrate decreased. In the US we are at historic low births per family because the mom and dads are comfortable with their income and think they will be OK into retirement. Other parts of the world are showing the same birth decline too. In the not too distant future I am pretty sure the world population will stabilize at around 9 Billion and actually start dropping, due to the above and other factors such as resource management, etc.

So there. We require more stuff but in a little while the births and deaths will be evened out for a stable world population. If I were to really go out on a limb here with my wild assed ideas I think the big push for immigration reform is based on the US potentially losing population in the near future (50 years or so) and the tax base drying up, but that's just me.
 
Ah grasshopper, you are right...and wrong lol! We do consume more per capita but the children thing? That's dropping. Yes, we are putting more people on the planet but the pace is slowing. Here is an excerpt from that website everybody says sucks:

The global growth rate peaked at 2.2% in 1963, and has declined to below 1.1% as of 2012.[7] Total annual births were highest in the late 1980s at about 138 million,[8] and are now expected to remain essentially constant at their 2011 level of 134 million, while deaths number 56 million per year, and are expected to increase to 80 million per year by 2040.[9]

The UN projects steadily declining population growth in the near future, with the global population expected to become between 8.3 and 10.9 billion by 2050

Now, this article is footnoted all the way back to caveman times so it has validity. The reason our population grew so fast during the early years is simple: Families wanted to have a bunch of kids to help them out. As families started making money the birthrate decreased. In the US we are at historic low births per family because the mom and dads are comfortable with their income and think they will be OK into retirement. Other parts of the world are showing the same birth decline too. In the not too distant future I am pretty sure the world population will stabilize at around 9 Billion and actually start dropping, due to the above and other factors such as resource management, etc.

So there. We require more stuff but in a little while the births and deaths will be evened out for a stable world population. If I were to really go out on a limb here with my wild assed ideas I think the big push for immigration reform is based on the US potentially losing population in the near future (50 years or so) and the tax base drying up, but that's just me.

Somewhat off topic, but my thread so :lalala:

This BBC documentary illustrates pretty well exactly what you are saying:


As far as being scared to death about our environment and the fact that we are living longer in modern times, I think its important to distinguish the fact that most of us arent being unreasonable about making a common sense effort to reduce exposure wherever we can:

- Dont cook with teflon coated pans
- Use glass or steel instead of plastic
- Buy clothes made of natural fibers instead of synthetic
- Dont smoke?
- Wear a respirator when you are sanding or painting
- Dont huff gasoline
- wear gloves when you handle automotive or cleaning chemicals
- clean your stuff with vinegar and baking soda instead of bleach
- buy organic where possible
- use a R/O filter for your water
- dont use a microwave

The list goes on. Just being conscious about materials and methods is really all we need to do, right?
 
Don't huff gasoline....WHAT!!!
I think your forgetting who your talking too here, lol...

Actually, one of my favorite smells is from a boat motor, don't know why but man when ever I smell it the ol' brain takes me back to being a kid growing up at Martinez lake in Yuma Arizona. Man if I could have just hit the pause button and stayed there till I die it would be a wonderful life.

It may have something to do which the exhaust being filtered through water :biggrin1:
 
haha when I was typing that list I put that in as a joke and apparently forgot to delete it. Leaving for work in the mornings, I have to exit the garage quickly because that stuff gives me a wicked headache. Cant really stand having the rear window down in the T4, which sucks. Need to reroute the exhaust pipe.

Somethin about the smell of fuel on the water though...I know what you mean! Getting the boats cranked up for a day of wake surfing with a cooler full of cold ones and good tunes. Makes the summers bearable until the snow starts falling again :rockon:
 
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i eat fastfood maybe once every couple months, i only drink water, milk, 100percent organic fruit juice, and once in a while a horchata(mexican drink)
i eat nothing in a can, veggies fresh or frozen, i dont drink, smoke etc.
i dont take pills(on a very rare occasion) if theres a natural way i would rather do that. i try to eat and drink healthy, but i do have some junk every now and then. Mostly get my veggies from a farmers market locally grown , more for personal reasons than health wise.
 

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ddnww said:
i eat fastfood maybe once every couple months, i only drink water, milk, 100percent organic fruit juice, and once in a while a horchata(mexican drink)
i eat nothing in a can, veggies fresh or frozen, i dont drink, smoke etc.
i dont take pills(on a very rare occasion) if theres a natural way i would rather do that. i try to eat and drink healthy, but i do have some junk every now and then. Mostly get my veggies from a farmers market locally grown , more for personal reasons than health wise.


I would if I could, unfortunately military school and the reserves don't allow for that. I hate when I get MREs, I feel bogged down, sluggish and overall sh*tty after eating as little as I possibly can out of them while still being able to function normally. They really shove a lot of crap in there to make them last and semi taste like real food.
 
Man, that picture of the cheeseburger almost made me sick. :barf:

Don't know if its true or not but but a ex of mine, her little brother worked at mc Donald's for a month and said the USDA stamping on the box was grade "D" beef.
 
What's wrong with using a microwave?

Nothing. Nor is eating a McDonalds hamburger, cleaning with chemicals, eating store bought vegetables or anything else hundreds of millions of people do every day with no ill effects. Reading some of these posts you would think the only safe way to exist would to drink boiled and filtered water only and only eat veggies grown in pure soil procured from under a glacier in Nepal or something.
We used to live to 47 on average now its 76 so apparently some of this crap we are doing must be working lol.
 
As far as being scared to death about our environment and the fact that we are living longer in modern times, I think its important to distinguish the fact that most of us arent being unreasonable about making a common sense effort to reduce exposure wherever we can:

- Dont cook with teflon coated pans
- Use glass or steel instead of plastic
- Buy clothes made of natural fibers instead of synthetic
- Dont smoke?
- Wear a respirator when you are sanding or painting
- Dont huff gasoline
- wear gloves when you handle automotive or cleaning chemicals
- clean your stuff with vinegar and baking soda instead of bleach
- buy organic where possible
- use a R/O filter for your water
- dont use a microwave

The list goes on. Just being conscious about materials and methods is really all we need to do, right?

Implied in the pursuit of health is interest in the prior avoidance of death or severe illness/incapacitation.

On a prioritized list of the most likely causes of the above, something like a microwave oven wouldn't even appear unless theoretical/hypothetical causes were included. In any event, it would be nowhere near page 1 on such a list. A separate report would be more fitting.

The top portion of such a list is likely to contain some inconvenient items -- like automobile driving, for one. If you have to drive 5 miles to donate your microwave oven, you've almost certainly risked more than continuing to use it.

So the main problem with concern over obscure risks is that they can be a distraction from page 1 items that may have been ignored.

To illustrate how signal can tend to get lost in noise, I'll take a quick stab at annotating your list. Objectively, smoking would have more effect than all the other items combined.

- Dont cook with teflon coated pans - Nowhere near page 1
- Use glass or steel instead of plastic - Nowhere near page 1
- Buy clothes made of natural fibers instead of synthetic - Separate Report
- Dont smoke? - Page 1
- Wear a respirator when you are sanding or painting - Dose dependent, use common sense
- Dont huff gasoline - Dose dependent, use common sense
- wear gloves when you handle automotive or cleaning chemicals - Dose dependent, use common sense
- clean your stuff with vinegar and baking soda instead of bleach - Nowhere near page 1
- buy organic where possible - Nowhere near page 1
- use a R/O filter for your water - Nowhere near page 1
- dont use a microwave - Separate Report
 
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Implied in the pursuit of health is interest in the prior avoidance of death or severe illness/incapacitation.

On a prioritized list of the most likely causes of the above, something like a microwave oven wouldn't even appear unless theoretical/hypothetical causes were included. In any event, it would be nowhere near page 1 on such a list. A separate report would be more fitting.

The top portion of such a list is likely to contain some inconvenient items -- like automobile driving, for one. If you have to drive 5 miles to donate your microwave oven, you've almost certainly risked more than continuing to use it.

So the main problem with concern over obscure risks is that they can be a distraction from page 1 items that may have been ignored.

To illustrate how signal can tend to get lost in noise, I'll take a quick stab at annotating your list. Objectively, smoking would have more effect than all the other items combined.

- Dont cook with teflon coated pans - Nowhere near page 1
- Use glass or steel instead of plastic - Nowhere near page 1
- Buy clothes made of natural fibers instead of synthetic - Separate Report
- Dont smoke? - Page 1
- Wear a respirator when you are sanding or painting - Dose dependent, use common sense
- Dont huff gasoline - Dose dependent, use common sense
- wear gloves when you handle automotive or cleaning chemicals - Dose dependent, use common sense
- clean your stuff with vinegar and baking soda instead of bleach - Nowhere near page 1
- buy organic where possible - Nowhere near page 1
- use a R/O filter for your water - Nowhere near page 1
- dont use a microwave - Separate Report

Totally agree. My page 1 items to worry about?
1. No exercise
2. High Stress Job or life
3. Driving lots of miles
4. Bad genetic parents

The items on that list? My items above will get you before they do lol.
 
Nothing. Nor is eating a McDonalds hamburger, cleaning with chemicals, eating store bought vegetables or anything else hundreds of millions of people do every day with no ill effects. Reading some of these posts you would think the only safe way to exist would to drink boiled and filtered water only and only eat veggies grown in pure soil procured from under a glacier in Nepal or something.
We used to live to 47 on average now its 76 so apparently some of this crap we are doing must be working lol.

I do agree with you partially. I stated before that a lot of this stuff is sensationalized and made to seem worse than it really is; however I also believe that using a little more common sense to limit exposure where possibly can only be helpful in the long run.

People around the world suffer immensely from exposure to toxins that they never knew they were even dealing with. Think about the chemicals that were commonplace just 30 or 40 years ago that everyone would call you crazy for playing around with today:
- DDT
- CFCs
- Asbestos- insulation
- Lead- paint
- Mercury- thermostats, etc
- Arsenic- still in pressurized wood, but being phased out

This is just a short list off the top of my head, but just do a quick google search for banned or severely restricted chemicals and you will see what I'm talking about. All of those compounds were in use at one time and were subsequently banned because they were shown to have negative side effects that outweighed their benefits.

My point is that for all our sophistication, we are still resorting to trial and error(using ourselves as guinea pigs) as a justifiable means for advancement regardless of possible negative side effects.

For example, anyone remember agent orange? Used to defoliate large areas of Vietman during the war. It was later found that a highly toxic strain of dioxin was used in the chemical. The devastating long term effects of this compound became known as American soldiers returned from the war with a wide range of serious health problems that have persisted through to their children in many cases. The Vietnamese have suffered more; my brother spent a month in that country last year and came back with some pretty disturbing insight into how many horribly disfigured people, including children that he saw on the streets. This is a pretty decent article if you want to read a little more: Agent Orange's Long Legacy
Agent orange is pretty terrible for just about everything living, right? so then why is it still in use? I'd bet most of you have a bottle of it in your garage: Is Monsanto's RoundUp the new Agent Orange?
My point here is assuming that the chemicals we use are generally safe is a HUGE misconception.


Implied in the pursuit of health is interest in the prior avoidance of death or severe illness/incapacitation.

On a prioritized list of the most likely causes of the above, something like a microwave oven wouldn't even appear unless theoretical/hypothetical causes were included. In any event, it would be nowhere near page 1 on such a list. A separate report would be more fitting.

The top portion of such a list is likely to contain some inconvenient items -- like automobile driving, for one. If you have to drive 5 miles to donate your microwave oven, you've almost certainly risked more than continuing to use it.

So the main problem with concern over obscure risks is that they can be a distraction from page 1 items that may have been ignored.

To illustrate how signal can tend to get lost in noise, I'll take a quick stab at annotating your list. Objectively, smoking would have more effect than all the other items combined.

- Dont cook with teflon coated pans - Nowhere near page 1
- Use glass or steel instead of plastic - Nowhere near page 1
- Buy clothes made of natural fibers instead of synthetic - Separate Report
- Dont smoke? - Page 1
- Wear a respirator when you are sanding or painting - Dose dependent, use common sense
- Dont huff gasoline - Dose dependent, use common sense
- wear gloves when you handle automotive or cleaning chemicals - Dose dependent, use common sense
- clean your stuff with vinegar and baking soda instead of bleach - Nowhere near page 1
- buy organic where possible - Nowhere near page 1
- use a R/O filter for your water - Nowhere near page 1
- dont use a microwave - Separate Report


This was more or less just off the top of my head, but I essentially agree with you. My main concern about those items is daily use with no research testing long term cumulative effects, especially combined with who knows how many other compounds we interact with and never think about.
 
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Here's one, umm that new car smell!, we all love it, getting Into a brand new car and smelling the "new car smell". Off gases, we are smelling off gases and everything we have in our modern society does it, the plastic for our T.V. And computers off gas. Our tires! I had to quit working for Goodyear as a warehouse manager because I would go home and get bloody noses just about every night. It wasn't till years later I put two and two together and realized it was because of the concentration of 30,000 plus tires off gassing around me that caused my bloody noses.

I've been looking around for ideas to remodel my new place and ran across another great article with references that has a lot of great info about all the materials around us that are off-gasing a lot of nasty chemicals:

Ask the EcoTeam: My New Carpet is Off-Gassing! | Ecology Center

and here is a link to the Toxicant and Disease database. The links they have drawn between materials and serious health problems is a pretty big eye opener:

Collaborative on Health and the Environment ::
 

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