Used oil analysis baselines <5000 miles

[A-P-9]

Some here may argue that this has been discussed ad nauseam, and a subset of them will just revert to the classic "read the manual" response, regardless. Well, the Toyota maintenance schedule has first oil change at 10,000 miles/1 year, except for severe service 5,000 miles/6 months. "ToyotaCare" covers oil change at 10K and 20K. I have read about how our engines have an initial "break-in" period before leaving the plant, justifying this.

But I'd rather see raw data. Since there don't appear to be any recent threads still open on this topic, to contribute to the global knowledge database I have shared two early "baseline" used oil analyses here.

Frankly I do regret (just a little bit) not doing the first oil change earlier. I know there isn't anything necessarily problematic here, but the idea of abrasive break-in material recirculating for that long doesn't set well with me.


Notes:

• I'd estimate the duty cycle split (in terms of mileage) 1/3 highway, 2/3 city.
• The bulk of the "city" driving was from trips approx. 25-30 minutes in duration.
• First sample taken at 3425 miles / 151 hours
• Second sample taken at 4676 miles / 205 hours
• Oil was NOT changed at first sample. Second sample was taken upon changing oil (but not filter), including the addition of the "polar vortex" with a couple cold starts below -20°F
• Yes, the second sample did arrive before the first sample. USPS had it for close to 8 weeks.

 

[Bumbo]

Nice report... Blackstone is pretty good with their feedback and comments.

My friend just had one done on a used Tundra he picked up.

I really need to get one done for my 4th gen that has 200k+ miles on it.

 

[Orc]

On my 2014 the tech was asking the advisors why I was changing my oil at 5k. I had to remind them how my 2012 camry engine was replaced under warranty and the master tech recommended not to wait for 10k.

Honestly I think the oil can handle it but the filtration is inadequate. The camry also had s very thin air filter that looked like it was for a weedeater, not a 8500 dollar engine.

 

[Bayou_Pro]

That report looks very good. Blackstone is great to deal with. They know me on a first name basis there. LOL

You ought to see some of the initial break-in reports we see on some of our race engines. You'd think they were coming a part.

It's a 4.0L Toyota engine, so just change the oil (with good oil) and it'll run 200K+ no problem.

 

[nglayton]

You are correct, this has been discussed. :deadhorse:


Why post both reports, the first one clearly has both sets of tests on it.

I think both reports are useless without the baseline report of fresh unused oil.

It would be interesting to see the baseline, your two reports and then again at 10K, all side by side.

 

[northcoast]

This is not meant to be as rude as I'm afraid it will come across reading it, but get the TBN (it's not my $$ obviously)! It's always good to know how much you've got left in the oil, even if it's not a full run.

 

[Bumbo]

You are correct, this has been discussed. :deadhorse:


Why post both reports, the first one clearly has both sets of tests on it.

I think both reports are useless without the baseline report of fresh unused oil.

It would be interesting to see the baseline, your two reports and then again at 10K, all side by side.

How is this report useless without a baseline? You don't need to pay to analyze brand new oil. That said, I agree about the TBN in this scenario.

Plus, the comments from Blackstone are different in both reports... probably why he posted both.

 

[johnbt]

"Second sample was taken upon changing oil (but not filter)"

You changed the oil but not the filter? What did you do with the $10 or $20 you saved?

My wife's last two Camrys are still running fine and not burning any oil. One has 210,000 and one has 250,000 and all she ever did was follow the manual.
Now she has a 2016 Avalon, so we'll see how the 4 free oil changes work out. Toyota covers the first 20,000 and the dealer covers the next 20,000. Metallurgy has come a long way.

 

[swva]

You may have seen this thread already.
Blackstone oil report

I posted a few samples in that thread. I was originally concerned about the high copper but eventually Blackstone said that seems to be normal for this engine.

I also paid to check the TBN which which basically tells how much life is left on the oil by checking the additives left in it. From their test it looked like the oil would be good for close to 10,000 miles.

A couple of years ago I came across a thread on Bob is the oil guy where someone posted a virgin oil analysis of the Toyota 0w-20 synthetic oil. I will try to find that later.

 

[northcoast]

You may have seen this thread already.
Blackstone oil report

I posted a few samples in that thread. I was originally concerned about the high copper but eventually Blackstone said that seems to be normal for this engine.

I also paid to check the TBN which which basically tells how much life is left on the oil by checking the additives left in it. From their test it looked like the oil would be good for close to 10,000 miles.

A couple of years ago I came across a thread on Bob is the oil guy where someone posted a virgin oil analysis of the Toyota 0w-20 synthetic oil. I will try to find that later.

Post #98 on that thread is pretty nice. Almost 10k miles on the run and TBN of 4.4. Looks like these engines are pretty easy on oil overall. Gotta love MPFI.

 

[Bayou_Pro]

You are correct, this has been discussed. :deadhorse:


I think both reports are useless without the baseline report of fresh unused oil.

Sure it's been discussed before but so has all of the lifts, tires, and lights ect that we see on here. Who cares!! I'm glad to see this on here.

Your comment about this report being useless is what's useless. It's a quality oil report showing how his engine break-in is going. You don't need a virgin sample to see what wear metals are present. Now if you are looking into the shear of the oil or break down then maybe so. That's not what is post is about though.

I agree with the others that a TBN would be nice as well. Next week I have my last free dealer oil change and then after that I will be switching to Redline 0W20. I'll do a report on the Toyota oil at 10K and then another with the TBN on the Redline at 10K to see how the life is doing. 4Runner has almost 33K miles on it now just for reference.

 

[A-P-9]

I decided against getting TBN due to the fact that this wasn't a "full" oil change interval, and it doesn't necessarily decrease linearly with usage.

Others have already run virgin oil analysis on Toyota Genuine Motor Oil, assuming that's really what the factory fill is. I don't see much value in running another, unless there is reason to believe the base oil or additive formulation has changed.

Filter will get changed at (or shortly before) 10,000 miles, and so will the oil again, under ToyotaCare. Sure, it does retain a small portion of the factory fill, but as long as the element media is undamaged and has adequate debris-holding capacity remaining to not go into bypass or cause excess restriction, no need to go through the unnecessary aggravation of changing it yet.

 

[Orc]

The tech that replaced my camry engine really believed the filter was the weak point.

 

[Bayou_Pro]

The tech that replaced my camry engine really believed the filter was the weak point.

Man that a lot of build up!! How many miles?

 

[nglayton]

How is this report useless without a baseline?
Plus, the comments from Blackstone are different in both reports... probably why he posted both.

Your comment about this report being useless is what's useless. It's a quality oil report showing how his engine break-in is going. You don't need a virgin sample to see what wear metals are present.

Maybe my comment about it was useless was a little strong, I apologize. Also I didn't say I wasn't glad to see the OP's post. I do think it was overkill to post both reports, even if just for the comments. But whatever. It is the OP's $28, they are to do with it as they see fit.



The reason for a baseline is...........How do you know any of those "contaminates" weren't present in the oil before it was dumped into the engine?

I get it, odd's are the fresh oil was clean, but you never know without the baseline test.......

 

[Bayou_Pro]

The reason for a baseline is...........How do you know any of those "contaminates" weren't present in the oil before it was dumped into the engine?

I get it, odd's are the fresh oil was clean, but you never know without the baseline test.......

Yeah technically I guess you are right, but in cases like this it's pretty safe to assume that there are no wear metals present in virgin oil. We are talking about Toyota engines here, we are not trying to launch the space shuttle. LOL

I've done ton of analysis on race engines and drivers. The only time I've ever had virgin oil samples tested is when I was doing some weight shear testing specifically. We tested shear on 4 very popular oils, Mobile One, Royal Purple, Amsoil and Redline. It was done on my race car so it was the same engine with 10 1/4 mile passes per sample. All were tested twice but alternated oils in between. Results were fairly surprising to say the least. Redline was the best by far of the 4 we tested. But I digress...

 

[Woz1976-MT]

Post #98 on that thread is pretty nice. Almost 10k miles on the run and TBN of 4.4. Looks like these engines are pretty easy on oil overall. Gotta love MPFI.

I haven't posted it yet, but I have the next 10k mile oil change report back from Blackstone. I did accidentally spill 2/3 of the sample, but Blackstone was able to run all of the tests as usual (other than TBN, which I didn't want). My latest sample results are right in-line with Blackstone's universal averages for the Toyota 4.0L.

 

[Bayou_Pro]

I haven't posted it yet, but I have the next 10k mile oil change report back from Blackstone. I did accidentally spill 2/3 of the sample, but Blackstone was able to run all of the tests as usual (other than TBN, which I didn't want). My latest sample results are right in-line with Blackstone's universal averages for the Toyota 4.0L.

Cool. What oil are your running?

 

[supratt]

This thread makes me think that T4R owners get their oil tested more than their blood at the lab.

 

[Orc]

Man that a lot of build up!! How many miles?

55k

The engine under a lot of heat soak would rattle on acceleration. I thought it was a heatshield for a while but then convinced myself it was bottom end. Tech heard it with me on test drive then replaced cam shafts to no avail.

He could replicate it by applying volts to the engine on the lift. I'm still unsure how that works.

Car ran perfect after the short block.