VVT-i critical for V8?
- Thread starter gloch
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BlackWorksInc
New member
The majority of the arguments are based on silly crap to begin with as I pointed out earlier.
-Fuel Mileage (this is by far the most ridiculous argument I have seen, particularly since most people trying to justify the V6 because it has better MPG are also planning on modifying it, thus seeing a far greater reduction in MPG than they would on the V8.)
-Power (this is user dependent as I pointed out earlier, if you're towing planning on modding the hell out of the vehicle, you'll get a better result with the V8; with the V6 a slightly lesser equivalent can be reached by regearing earlier on. But if you're just looking at stock vs. stock use them really the V8 is probably more than you'll ever need)
-Reliability (this is also ridiculous as it doesn't matter, people want to laud the chain drive as indestructible and invulnerable to wear and tear, while shaming the timing belt as if it snaps in two on regularity like a Honda 4 banger. Both engines have their reliability quirks such as HGs on earlier V6's, VVTi seals and cam phasers on both engines, and secondary air injection on VVTi V8's. They are both good engines and overall reliable and robust)
Like I said in an earlier post the V8 drivetrain is a great platform for anyone planning on towing or adding significant weight to their rig, it pulls harder than the V6 and does so still when loaded up; you'll find the V8 will take quite a bit of abuse/weight before you really feel the need to regear it. While the V6 will rev higher to tug around the weight and quickly feel more sluggish as you pile on the weight, regearing it helps a bit; but at that point the V8 is just more torquey and has better low-end power.
If you're not going to modify your 4Runner heavily, tow, or really do much beyond keep it stock; just go for what makes you feel better. V6 is a great all around drivetrain from a stock and mildly modded standpoint, perfect for trudging up to the mountain for a ski trip and dropping the kids off at soccer practice.
Post Note-
Regarding the OP's concern of the VVTi vs. Non-VVTi V8's, this is a much more minor difference between the two. You'll have a hair more ft.lbs than non-VVTi and the power-band is smoothed a bit on the upper end. But I'll be honest with you, it's not a significant enough difference to warrant excluding non-VVTi V8 4th gens. I pull under 2k RPM cruising the freeway at 65~70mph in 5th gear at 3400ft elevation WITH 35's and heavy ass armor with no issue in my non-VVTi 2UZ-FE 4th gen. If I need to accelerate it'll have a half second delay but the power is still there (peak torque on these engines is about 3,400RPM), which I could probably negate if I regeared my 4Runner (it's on the to-do list, but honestly there's more important things on the list ahead of it).
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My towing comment. Only going by my experience. All the V8s I saw towed extensively. One of the main reasons people purchase the V8 over the V6. I've seen boats. Campers. Box trailers in the yard of several ones I looked at in my search. I feel that's a negative. Next is if your buying a 12 year old V8 with original headers. It seems common they crack and that's an expensive thing to remedy. And most sell their V8s when the time belts are due to be changed. Just something to be aware of if your looking to buy one so you don't get stuck with the double whammy.
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Here is some actual data regarding the different years in mpg. My 4runner got 15.6mpg average with stock tires and stock everything. It is an 05 4wd v8. My mom has a 2008 4wd v8 and gets 19mpg average with the same tires, at the same time on the same freeway. The "EPA Estimate" is pretty much useless because the calculation changes nearly every year, so attempting to compare mpgs between any vehicle for different years is like comparing a banana to a space shuttle.
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bamma
New member
So you previously stated that the non-vvti gets 3 mpg less than the vvti, and to prove it you compare your 05 vvti to your mom's 08 vvti? Umm, OK.
The simple fact is even 4Runners that were built next to each other on the line can have drastically different mpg. Not sure why that is, but it happens, hell, even "identical tires" can have a large difference in weight. Or your case, your mom is a sexy skinny milf who lucked out and got a good 4Runner, or you are fat as hell. Maybe both.
I still haven't seen any evidence that the VVTI gets better mileage, let alone 3mpg better. When my 03 was stock (not lifted with slightly heavier/larger tires) I could get 21+ at 70mpg.
Way to prove your comments are worthless and judgment even worse.
socal-4runner
Member
My 05 v8 gets just over 20 mpg highway at 70 mph consistently on my 150 mile daily commute with 165k miles on it. I LOVE this truck. Im so glad I held out for a v8 model
nevada
Senior Member
I vaguely remember something about the non vvt being non interference, and the VVT being an interference engine.
any truth to that?
No dude. I was saying that the EPA ESTIMATE method of mpg calculation changes, not the trucks. YOU said that the 08 mpg is worse... That is totally untrue. That is why you cannot google something and think that you found an answer that means anything.
I had hoped that you would also have realized that the 05 is a full time 4wd and the 08 is part time 4wd, that is why the mpg is different. Less metal parts are spinning at the same time on the part time 4wd version. I didn't say anything about non-vvti when I made that comparison, those were just actual numbers between two 4runners which contradict the EPA estimates that did not come from some fake website article found on google. When I have some actual numbers comparing identical non-vvti multi-mode 4wd to vvti multi-mode 4wd 4runners I will post them. I don't have any data on this yet, so I'm not going to post anything about it. Also, 4runners of the same vintage and configuration get the same mileage, unless one of them is broken.
There are old MPG threads you can search for, and you can use that as a source of data. When I read through them I noticed that the non-vvti V8s get lower mileage than the vvti ones. I didn't do analysis, so you'll have to do that or read through all the data yourself. Also, even if they were similar when new, note that all non-vvti V8s are older, and most of them have more miles than vvti V8s.
I think all the 4WD V8s are full time, but I'm not sure. I've never seen convincing evidence that being in 2WD on a multi-mode 4runner improves mileage much. Everyone always says it does, but based on reported MPG data (which has a huge number of variables) there was no noticeable pattern. I would guess it's less than 1 MPG lower to be in 4WD than 2WD. Most of the rotating parts are still rotating in 2WD. 2WD-only 4runners get better mileage because there is less weight and fewer rotating parts.
I would say VVT-i is worth it at higher altitude for the extra horsepower. HP decreases about 3% for every 1000 feet above sea level because of reduced oxygen, so in the mountains the difference can be significant. Truck people always seem to focus on torque, but power is ultimately what you need to accelerate on the highway.
I think all the 4WD V8s are full time, but I'm not sure. I've never seen convincing evidence that being in 2WD on a multi-mode 4runner improves mileage much. Everyone always says it does, but based on reported MPG data (which has a huge number of variables) there was no noticeable pattern. I would guess it's less than 1 MPG lower to be in 4WD than 2WD. Most of the rotating parts are still rotating in 2WD. 2WD-only 4runners get better mileage because there is less weight and fewer rotating parts.
I would say VVT-i is worth it at higher altitude for the extra horsepower. HP decreases about 3% for every 1000 feet above sea level because of reduced oxygen, so in the mountains the difference can be significant. Truck people always seem to focus on torque, but power is ultimately what you need to accelerate on the highway.
bamma
New member
1)Yes, you did and you were comparing EPA estimates, and quoting my response to your prior post that non-vvti are better than vvti.
2)I said the EPA estimates are worse then went on to say all the threads on mpg (I have reviewed many) are all pretty similar from year to year.
3)All 4th Gen V8s are AWD.
4)Now the EPA is a fake Google website?
4)You already posted your numbers. 3 mpg difference. Still waiting on your proof. (Not really).
5) Ask anyone who has owned many versions of the same vehicle. Two identical spec'd cars will get different mileage. Many factors go into this, and it doesn't mean they are broken.
Seriously. You think there is 30 lb/ft torque difference when there is 10, you think the 08 V8 is not awd, and VVTI gets 3mpg better. Did you change out your blinker fluid to see if that increased your mileage? Seriously. People come to this board to get educated. What you've posted is some of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent responses were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this board is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
bamma
New member
Inv4drZm
Senior Member
Sure about that? Do some more research.
Inv4drZm
Senior Member
The EPA or Toyota (doesn't really matter which) rated the new 2005 (vvti) V8 at 270hp/330tq. 2006 and after V8 got re-rated at 260hp/306tq. Pretty sure it was just a rating thing. Doubt they actually changed anything between the 05's and 06-09's. The non-vvti V8's rated at 235hp/320tq.
Also, the V6 changed from 245hp/282tq in 03'-05' to 236hp/266tq afterwards. While we are on the subject.
Also, the V6 changed from 245hp/282tq in 03'-05' to 236hp/266tq afterwards. While we are on the subject.
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bamma
New member
I meant the 4wd v8s were all awd, not that a 2wd only option was not available.
BlackWorksInc
New member
They are interference regardless of VVTi or not.
All 4WD V8 4th Gens are Full-Time 4WD not AWD.
This is actually kind of funny. :clap2:
I can read. Perhaps sometime in the future you will learn to as well. And yes, the EPA is not the most trustworthy entity in the world. I am shocked that you believe anything they say. Well, not really considering you believe that two identical cars can have different mileages. Did you pick your 4runner because it had the best mileage of all the 4runners on the lot? Did you individually test them ALL! :drum:
Lexus GX V8 same motor as 4Runner.. epa rates the hp higher because they use premium gas. Instead of the 4Runner which is ran on regular gas.
Not to say it's accurately giving you approx 7 extra hp 8ft lbs of torque using premium but I believe that is how it's measured.
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Not to say it's accurately giving you approx 7 extra hp 8ft lbs of torque using premium but I believe that is how it's measured.
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bamma
New member
LOL, I clarified my statement before your response. And read my posts again, I never said the EPA is accurate, and I went on to say in the next sentence that the mpg threads show that the two engines average about the same mpg. Keep focusing on what I didn't say or clarified and ignore what you've been called out on...
And if you think every car off the lot is identical you are nuts. Tolerances are better than they used to be, but there are still a ton of variables. No two cars of the assembly line are exactly alike. Slight difference in install, assembled parts or manufacturing makes a big difference. Doesn't mean either one is defective. If you put two motors under the same stress, one will fail first. I had two identical 2007 Tacomas. Same engine, transmission, tires, package, etc., both purchased brand new. The first was totaled when it was rear ended. Off the lot it always had mixed mpg of around 16-17. The replacement averaged 19 off the lot. Same commute, same daily drive.
Hell, you even stated that your two 4runners with the same powertrain and tires have a 3mpg variance(except for the mythical multi-mode 4wd V8 your mom's has). Why then, is there a 3 mpg using "the same tires, at the same time on the same freeway"?
responses in red
