Weird electrical issue on 2015 Trail

[wfo9]

Just to clarify, is the truck still having odd issues besides the seat heaters being removed?

I just don't understand why they won't drop in a BCM and see if that resolves it. They have spent more in opex than it would to swap out a module. Imagine if the rest of the private sector worked this way. Almost sounds like the government at work.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Just to clarify, is the truck still having odd issues besides the seat heaters being removed?

I just don't understand why they won't drop in a BCM and see if that resolves it. They have spent more in opex than it would to swap out a module. Imagine if the rest of the private sector worked this way. Almost sounds like the government at work.

Because Warranty...

 

[wfo9]

Because Warranty...

Yea, but they are actually doing warranty work indirectly with all of this research time being spent... Seems like a test with a spare BCM would clear many things up. They are just working on assumptions at this point and actually spending money indirectly via support hours.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Yup... Its stupid how that works...

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I have the strong suspicion wfo9 does not like dealerships.

I have some observations here:

1) Even though the sales guy was being "nice" in telling you that you could save money by going directly to the installer, you really cut your options by not having them installed through the dealership. If its done as part of the purchase as a dealer authorized installation you have the force of God behind you if it fails. Without that, you don't.

2) People need to understand that some people (and I don't mean you in this case) do really stupid crap to their vehicles. I am sure you have heard the motto "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"? Dealers face this all the time.

I will give you an example:

My son (who I love very much) decided to install an amp in his girlfriends fairly new car a few years ago. He didn't engage me because he figured "piece of cake".

After he was done her check engine light would come on, her heat & A/C wouldn't work and her brake lights stopped working. They got me involved out of desperation and what did I discover? He used a screwdriver to poke a hole in the wiring harness grommet on the firewall to run the power feed and cut two wires. One was broke but sporadically touching, the other was about 1/8" apart.

Rookie mistake. Careless mistake. Dumb mistake.

But this is the kind of crap dealerships deal with. Somebody does something crazy, plays dumb and takes it into the dealership and says "It's broke, fix it".

And yes, it was a pain in the rear for me to repair. Not a lot of wiggle room on a wiring harness at the firewall.

3) I live in Colorado and had seat warmers once in a BMW I owned and never even used them. You must REALLY like a warm butt to lay that kind of cash out for something as simple as seat warmers.

4) I just bought a 2015 Trail, it does not have butt warmers. It will not have butt warmers.

I wish you success on resolving this. Ultimately though since you had the warmers installed outside of Toyota, you should be happy they are giving you any traction at all.

 

[tacoma22]

I had very similar problems with my 14 trail. Multi terrain select, trac light, clock won't turn on or reset, key fob would not work. Also for awhile the clock itself would not even turn off.

They replaced my passenger ecu( pretty sure), passenger secondary air valve sensor, and finally my body control module.

They ended up blaming some Motorola walkie talkies that I had. Well the charger unit for the walkie talkies. Never plugged them in again and no problems since. However my tech at the dealership said they didn't do it. Have you plugged anything else into the 12v outlets?

Sorry if I missed something in previous post. A bit buzzed and don't want to read all of it!

Oh and I have plugged in plenty of other electrical things with no issues. Also used the 400w outlet and plugged the walkie charger directly into that without issue.

Covered all by warranty. And they had my truck 4 times for over 40 days!!!

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I have the strong suspicion wfo9 does not like dealerships.

I have some observations here:

1) Even though the sales guy was being "nice" in telling you that you could save money by going directly to the installer, you really cut your options by not having them installed through the dealership. If its done as part of the purchase as a dealer authorized installation you have the force of God behind you if it fails. Without that, you don't.
...

Just to point out I believe that the dealership that sold him the vehicle refused to install the components. Toyota typically does not want us adding things to vehicles unless they are authorized accessories; seat heaters are not considered "accessories" and are considered part of vehicle packages. Thus his only real option was either have a 3rd party install plug & play factory equipment or go 3rd party all the way.

 

[wfo9]

They ended up blaming some Motorola walkie talkies that I had. Well the charger unit for the walkie talkies. Never plugged them in again and no problems since. However my tech at the dealership said they didn't do it. Have you plugged anything else into the 12v outlets?

Sorry if I missed something in previous post. A bit buzzed and don't want to

WTF is wrong with these people. Can they not just admit that shit goes wrong with Toyotas just like everything else in this world and it is not always the customers fault. Plugging in accessories will not fry your BCM. No offence BlackworksInc, but there are some intellectually disabled folks wearing a Toyota patch these days.

 

[Kennyr44]

I had very similar problems with my 14 trail. Multi terrain select, trac light, clock won't turn on or reset, key fob would not work. Also for awhile the clock itself would not even turn off.

They replaced my passenger ecu( pretty sure), passenger secondary air valve sensor, and finally my body control module.

They ended up blaming some Motorola walkie talkies that I had. Well the charger unit for the walkie talkies. Never plugged them in again and no problems since. However my tech at the dealership said they didn't do it. Have you plugged anything else into the 12v outlets?

Sorry if I missed something in previous post. A bit buzzed and don't want to read all of it!

Oh and I have plugged in plenty of other electrical things with no issues. Also used the 400w outlet and plugged the walkie charger directly into that without issue.

Covered all by warranty. And they had my truck 4 times for over 40 days!!!

First get the install shop to triple check everything and remove any of the new wiring. Ok finally something to work with here. Forget the service writer if hes being a dick. Talk directly to the service manager. First get the vin number for this vehicle and copy this post. Show him this information and ask him nicely to get the district rep involved. The car has to be fixed and If the service manager wont help I would involve the general manager or owner of the dealership. Call Toyota next. If none of this works try another dealer. I feel your pain and hope it gets resolved before you end up killing someone.

 

[tacoma22]

First get the install shop to triple check everything and remove any of the new wiring. Ok finally something to work with here. Forget the service writer if hes being a dick. Talk directly to the service manager. First get the vin number for this vehicle and copy this post. Show him this information and ask him nicely to get the district rep involved. The car has to be fixed and If the service manager wont help I would involve the general manager or owner of the dealership. Call Toyota next. If none of this works try another dealer. I feel your pain and hope it gets resolved before you end up killing someone.

They even gave me a remote start for all my troubles! Labor free, part lower than cost. Only paid about 175$. I should have fought for free. I did have to involve the gm

 

[Ezekiel2222]

Tacoma22, you may be the guy they were telling me about, or at least your vehicle! When they were initially diagnosing the problem they looked through their records and found one other case that was similar. They said it was a guy with a Trail who had installed a "CB" radio in it which supposedly fried the BCM. Since your location is Colorado Springs you must have used the same Larry H. Miller Toyota that I am currently dealing with.

The rep up in Denver has decided that they will pay to replace the BCM with a stock one, and see if that fixes the problem. They will NOT re-hookup the seat heaters, and if I decide to do that and it stops working again, it will be on me.

I'm really hoping the BCM doesn't fix the problem, or if it does it stops working again right away, that way the dealership will have to apologize and finally search for the real problem...

 

[TRD4runnin]

Tacoma22, you may be the guy they were telling me about, or at least your vehicle! When they were initially diagnosing the problem they looked through their records and found one other case that was similar. They said it was a guy with a Trail who had installed a "CB" radio in it which supposedly fried the BCM. Since your location is Colorado Springs you must have used the same Larry H. Miller Toyota that I am currently dealing with.

The rep up in Denver has decided that they will pay to replace the BCM with a stock one, and see if that fixes the problem. They will NOT re-hookup the seat heaters, and if I decide to do that and it stops working again, it will be on me.

I'm really hoping the BCM doesn't fix the problem, or if it does it stops working again right away, that way the dealership will have to apologize and finally search for the real problem...

I asked trdsparks dealership about the wiring necessary to do the plug and play heated seats. They said that dash and chassis harnesses would also have to changed out as well. I'm second guessing doing it now.

 

[testes1010]

They ended up blaming some Motorola walkie talkies that I had. Well the charger unit for the walkie talkies. Never plugged them in again and no problems since. However my tech at the dealership said they didn't do it. Have you plugged anything else into the 12v outlets?

Had the exact same thing happen just a few days after purchasing my '14; plugged my walkie talkies in and then I realized a day later the clock back light would stay on, the doors would not stay locked from the remote or from the door switch; it would unlock itself as soon as you tried to lock it. Only with the key would the door stay locked. Unplugged the radio charger and hasn't had an issue since.

Great first post, right? Long-time lurker but had not felt the need to post.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Just to point out I believe that the dealership that sold him the vehicle refused to install the components. Toyota typically does not want us adding things to vehicles unless they are authorized accessories; seat heaters are not considered "accessories" and are considered part of vehicle packages. Thus his only real option was either have a 3rd party install plug & play factory equipment or go 3rd party all the way.

I am not beating up on Ezek. I was just basing my statement on this:

"I can't really blame the dealer for the heated seats:

When I bought the vehicle I asked my sales rep about getting heated seats installed. He said they could do it, but he was also honest and told me that they just farm it out to a car audio place down the street, and he told me it would be cheaper for me to go there myself."

 

[Lester Lugnut]

When I bought the vehicle I asked my sales rep about getting heated seats installed. He said they could do it, but he was also honest and told me that they just farm it out to a car audio place down the street, and he told me it would be cheaper for me to go there myself."

And...that keeps the dealer off the hook. "Your problem Mr. Jones...we didn't do the work". Smart sales rep.

 

[tacoma22]

Tacoma22, you may be the guy they were telling me about, or at least your vehicle! When they were initially diagnosing the problem they looked through their records and found one other case that was similar. They said it was a guy with a Trail who had installed a "CB" radio in it which supposedly fried the BCM. Since your location is Colorado Springs you must have used the same Larry H. Miller Toyota that I am currently dealing with.

The rep up in Denver has decided that they will pay to replace the BCM with a stock one, and see if that fixes the problem. They will NOT re-hookup the seat heaters, and if I decide to do that and it stops working again, it will be on me.

I'm really hoping the BCM doesn't fix the problem, or if it does it stops working again right away, that way the dealership will have to apologize and finally search for the real problem...

Yep that was me!

 

[Ezekiel2222]

I am not beating up on Ezek. I was just basing my statement on this:

"I can't really blame the dealer for the heated seats:

When I bought the vehicle I asked my sales rep about getting heated seats installed. He said they could do it, but he was also honest and told me that they just farm it out to a car audio place down the street, and he told me it would be cheaper for me to go there myself."

I hear what you all are saying, and I agree that if they can PROVE that the heated seats messed something up, I may be liable. But that's just it, they have to prove it. Right now they haven't proved a damn thing beside the fact that my vehicle has a problem, and that disconnecting the heated seats DID NOT fix it. They don't know what the problem is, they don't know where the problem is, they don't know what caused the problem.

When they finally put a new stock BCM in, assuming it "fixes" the problem, it still won't prove that the heated seats were the cause. The original BCM could have been defective, or as BlackWorksInc suggested, it might be a larger ground/short issue with the vehicle.

Also just to clarify, but I chose not to go through the dealer to do the install because I didn't want cheap aftermarket heated seats; I wanted the real deal. I pretty much assumed the dealer would be unwilling to help me, so I just went straight to the installer.

tacoma22 / testes1010: How were your walkie talkies plugged in? Via a normal outlet, or somehow spliced into the wiring/fuse box/battery? I'm curious how plugging in a simple accessory could cause such a major problem.

 

[tacoma22]

I hear what you all are saying, and I agree that if they can PROVE that the heated seats messed something up, I may be liable. But that's just it, they have to prove it. Right now they haven't proved a damn thing beside the fact that my vehicle has a problem, and that disconnecting the heated seats DID NOT fix it. They don't know what the problem is, they don't know where the problem is, they don't know what caused the problem.

When they finally put a new stock BCM in, assuming it "fixes" the problem, it still won't prove that the heated seats were the cause. The original BCM could have been defective, or as BlackWorksInc suggested, it might be a larger ground/short issue with the vehicle.

Also just to clarify, but I chose not to go through the dealer to do the install because I didn't want cheap aftermarket heated seats; I wanted the real deal. I pretty much assumed the dealer would be unwilling to help me, so I just went straight to the installer.

tacoma22 / testes1010: How were your walkie talkies plugged in? Via a normal outlet, or somehow spliced into the wiring/fuse box/battery? I'm curious how plugging in a simple accessory could cause such a major problem.

What appeared to have caused my problem was when the walkie talkie charger unit was plugged directly into the cigarette outlet. I use the actual wall type 400w outlet for the same unit in the cargo area now. No issues sinc.
Also they took a BCM right off another trail that had just got to the dealership. I may have pushed for that but by day 30 something I was irritated.

 

[wfo9]

What appeared to have caused my problem was when the walkie talkie charger unit was plugged directly into the cigarette outlet. I use the actual wall type 400w outlet for the same unit in the cargo area now. No issues sinc.
Also they took a BCM right off another trail that had just got to the dealership. I may have pushed for that but by day 30 something I was irritated.

That still does not add up. I'm wondering if there is a flaw/bug somewhere related to high amp loads in general on a specific circuit with the BCM.

 

[tacoma22]

That still does not add up. I'm wondering if there is a flaw/bug somewhere related to high amp loads in general on a specific circuit with the BCM.

It turns out the charging unit and/ or the plug part that goes into the outlet is a 9V device. The outlet is 12v. Which to me wouldn't seem like it would cause a problem. If it was over 12v then yeah sure that would be an issue. Any thoughts?