What is your definition of level

[wfo9]

I'm curious to see what others consider level vs still having a little rake...

Post your center of hub to lower edge of fender/flare measurements.

I'm currently around 24" front 25" rear. My frame rails are 100% level, and this includes more tire deflection in the front.... (these measurements were taken without all of my armor in place)

I'm running an ICON lift with MT LT rear med coils. Still making a few changes, so more info to come.

 

[JMG73072]

Ground to bottom of fender mine sets at 39 3/4 and 40 3/8.

 

[jmarthsr]

Bilstein 5100s all around. Fronts set at .85. Rear measurement from center of hub 22" front 21".

 

[wfo9]

So, do most people consider 1"+ in the rear to be level? It feels about right to me.

 

[Jetboy]

The way it rolled off the factory line.

 

[fattire]

Numerous threads here state 1" - 1.5" of rake is normal. I know I have more because of the HD springs in the back. There's also the lean to factor in but I think you have a small spacer installed for this right?

 

[sandcrawler]

(ground to fender, sorry)

~39.75" rear ... ~37.75" front
– ICON "2-inch" rear springs, ICON coilovers at default position w/ 285/70-17 Baja MTZ (32.99" spec)
~36.5" rear ... ~34.5" front
– OEM w/ 265/70-17 Duratracs (31.7" spec)

so right now i've still got the factory 2" rake i originally had, but it still looks a little too much to me now. some adjustments to be made.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

What's deceiving is that the frame rails are level from the factory but the body is not.

 

[1engineer]

What's deceiving is that the frame rails are level from the factory but the body is not.

To me, a stock 4Runner is level. The frame is parallel to the ground and the body has a slight forward tilt or rake. We know this is for loading and cargo carrying that will keep the front end from being higher than the back in these conditions. Now the rake or stance of the stock 4Runner is what I expect. When I see one that has been leveled it looks nose high to me! Just my opinion but I expect the rake and use the rake especially when I have 500 lbs or so back there.

 

[wfo9]

To me, a stock 4Runner is level. The frame is parallel to the ground and the body has a slight forward tilt or rake. We know this is for loading and cargo carrying that will keep the front end from being higher than the back in these conditions. Now the rake or stance of the stock 4Runner is what I expect. When I see one that has been leveled it looks nose high to me! Just my opinion but I expect the rake and use the rake especially when I have 500 lbs or so back there.

I did not realize the frame rails were "level" from the factory. I thought there was a very slight tilt forward. My truck came with a lift, so I never got to see what stock was.

Does anyone have factory delta between front and rear (hub center to fender). I saw the 2" delta to ground number above, but that includes tire deflection...

I know it is always changing based on which side and how much gas and cargo you have...

 

[shaneotool]

more than 39" up front on 285/70/17 tires or 24" hub to fender is a pretty high lift.

I thought the rule of thumb was 23" to 23-1/2" hub to fender before stuff starts breaking prematurely. I'm no expert though.

 

[Ron4RNevada]

Almost no car or truck ever made had the height of the wheel openings the same front and rear. It's called styling. Mostly the front opening is larger so that the wheels can turn while steering. The rear wheels generally have smaller openings as they don't need to steer.

What is important is that the measurement of the frame bottom to the ground is the same front to rear. This forum is probably the only place that I can recall where people have a mindset where they think that the wheel opening height from the ground is important.

Some examples of the "real world":

 

[Auntie Soshul]

After reading posts pretty much daily about owners leveling their rigs, I've often wondered the same thing, but felt too "out of the loop" to ask.

It never occurred to me to crawl under a new vehicle, put a level on the frame rails and spend hundreds of dollars to "correct" a 3/64" lean towards the passenger side or a half inch lean towards the front or back. What are the benefits? Does it improve handling? Is it strictly cosmetic?

 

[1engineer]

After reading posts pretty much daily about owners leveling their rigs, I've often wondered the same thing, but felt too "out of the loop" to ask.

It never occurred to me to crawl under a new vehicle, put a level on the frame rails and spend hundreds of dollars to "correct" a 3/64" lean towards the passenger side or a half inch lean towards the front or back. What are the benefits? Does it improve handling? Is it strictly cosmetic?

Man, I have no idea. Sure, changing height from front to rear will mess with your front/rear weight ratio and change the CG a TINY bit, but Toyota designed these things and took into account the rake to get the weight bias. Why raise the front? Has to be purely looks. Well I guess it would change the approach angle a hair. I have yet to feel like I am falling out of my seat from leaning forward while driving down the road lol.

 

[Mooney]

What is important is that the measurement of the frame bottom to the ground is the same front to rear. This forum is probably the only place that I can recall where people have a mindset where they think that the wheel opening height from the ground is important.

Really?

https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrTcXit49xUtxoAxreJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTIzcTlta29xBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZANhMWQ4NDAxZDhmMmZhODZiMDNkYmM3YzRjN2FhM2Q4YQRncG9zAzE3BGl0A2Jpbmc-?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fyhs%2Fsearch%3F_adv_prop%3Dimage%26va%3Dtruck%2Bframe%26fr%3Dyhs-mozilla-001%26hsimp%3Dyhs-001%26hspart%3Dmozilla%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D17&w=600&h=400&imgurl=snailmotorsports.com%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2Fframes%2Fchevy_truck_frame_satin_black.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fsnailmotorsports.com%2Fgallery-frames%2F&size=90.4KB&name=...+.com%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2F%3Cb%3Eframes%3C%2Fb%3E%2Fchevy_%3Cb%3Etruck_frame%3C%2Fb%3E_satin_black.jpg&p=truck+frame&oid=a1d8401d8f2fa86b03dbc7c4c7aa3d8a&fr2=&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&tt=...+.com%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2F%3Cb%3Eframes%3C%2Fb%3E%2Fchevy_%3Cb%3Etruck_frame%3C%2Fb%3E_satin_black.jpg&b=0&ni=21&no=17&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11bjur7jk&sigb=14bhesmmq&sigi=12c1nme26&sigt=12e2070cs&sign=12e2070cs&.crumb=qUwKSaMsmA1&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla

 

[KVA]

* surprised I am the first to call this out.

 

[Yotta]

My definition of "level" is "depends on how the truck is loaded".

 

[Ron4RNevada]

Really?

https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrTcXit49xUtxoAxreJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTIzcTlta29xBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZANhMWQ4NDAxZDhmMmZhODZiMDNkYmM3YzRjN2FhM2Q4YQRncG9zAzE3BGl0A2Jpbmc-?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fyhs%2Fsearch%3F_adv_prop%3Dimage%26va%3Dtruck%2Bframe%26fr%3Dyhs-mozilla-001%26hsimp%3Dyhs-001%26hspart%3Dmozilla%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D17&w=600&h=400&imgurl=snailmotorsports.com%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2Fframes%2Fchevy_truck_frame_satin_black.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fsnailmotorsports.com%2Fgallery-frames%2F&size=90.4KB&name=...+.com%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2F%3Cb%3Eframes%3C%2Fb%3E%2Fchevy_%3Cb%3Etruck_frame%3C%2Fb%3E_satin_black.jpg&p=truck+frame&oid=a1d8401d8f2fa86b03dbc7c4c7aa3d8a&fr2=&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&tt=...+.com%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2F%3Cb%3Eframes%3C%2Fb%3E%2Fchevy_%3Cb%3Etruck_frame%3C%2Fb%3E_satin_black.jpg&b=0&ni=21&no=17&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11bjur7jk&sigb=14bhesmmq&sigi=12c1nme26&sigt=12e2070cs&sign=12e2070cs&.crumb=qUwKSaMsmA1&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla

I was not talking about the differences in height at the bump ups for axle clearance or the level of the bumper support at the frame ends - -

Level of the straight part of the frame between the wheels.....

 

[96r50]

Does anyone have factory delta between front and rear (hub center to fender). I saw the 2" delta to ground number above, but that includes tire deflection.

My stock measurements from hub to fender were 19.25" (front) and 21.5” (rear).

 

[wfo9]

There seems to be a misunderstanding about the purpose of this post.

I was trying to get a definition ofwhat each persons definition of "level" was. Is it the frame rails, fender gaps.....

It has very little impact on performance... It is more of a personal preference for aesthetics... I think there are some slight advantages off-road with a little reverse rake (but minimal compared to other things). There is probably also a slight aero advantage on hwy to have a bit of forward rake.

The only reason I brought up the measurement between center of hub and fender was that it is a good point of reference between different 5th gens. I was not trying to say that the opening height is equal front and rear (although it might be).