rebelbowtie
New member
This is a good point but IMO applicable to used tires but tires that sit on the shelf and aren't driven on I'm not sure it makes a difference.
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what tire size to get this profile?
- Thread starter Lightfall
- Start date
This is a good point but IMO applicable to used tires but tires that sit on the shelf and aren't driven on I'm not sure it makes a difference.
Actual data, albeit not brand specific or specific to passenger tires: http://www.moderntiredealer.com/resources/documents-white-papers/01tiredebrisstudy.pdf
It was an nhsta research article done that seems to blame everything but the retreading process. Then again who knows if there was any influence on the study validity... Retreads also appear to now be used on steering axles for municipal vehicles, though that may not be true of passenger buses. Also it seems the airline industry almost exclusively uses retreads. All of this data isn't really directly applicable though because all those commercial tire types are designed to be retreaded with extra materials used in the tire carcasses for bedding new tread. I still don't think there is conclusive data directly applicable to the retreading of passenger tires unless I overlooked something in that 236 page document?
It was an nhsta research article done that seems to blame everything but the retreading process. Then again who knows if there was any influence on the study validity... Retreads also appear to now be used on steering axles for municipal vehicles, though that may not be true of passenger buses. Also it seems the airline industry almost exclusively uses retreads. All of this data isn't really directly applicable though because all those commercial tire types are designed to be retreaded with extra materials used in the tire carcasses for bedding new tread. I still don't think there is conclusive data directly applicable to the retreading of passenger tires unless I overlooked something in that 236 page document?
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rebelbowtie
New member
Actual data, albeit not brand specific or specific to passenger tires: http://www.moderntiredealer.com/resources/documents-white-papers/01tiredebrisstudy.pdf
It was an nhsta research article done that seems to blame everything but the retreading process. Then again who knows if there was any influence on the study validity... Retreads also appear to now be used on steering axles for municipal vehicles, though that may not be true of passenger buses. Also it seems the airline industry almost exclusively uses retreads. All of this data isn't really directly applicable though because all those commercial tire types are designed to be retreaded with extra materials used in the tire carcasses for bedding new tread. I still don't think there is conclusive data directly applicable to the retreading of passenger tires unless I overlooked something in that 236 page document?
This link proved my point with retreaded tires. They said "most failures were believed to be caused by the case" or carcass as I am referring too. These retreaded tires failed because the tire carcass was too old.
Believed is a powerful word most people don't acknowledge.
I'll peruse through this link, but right off the bat I found this interesting:
"Currently, there are no nationally mandated manufacturing or performance standards for medium- or heavy-duty tire retreads. Recognizing this situation, the general public may perceive that the lack of standards may result in no or weak standards or ineffective enforcement of standards. However, there are manufacturing standards governing retread quality that are industry-driven and that significantly improved the manufacturing quality of retread tires in recent years."
Treadwright are DOT and transportation approved. If there were solid data saying it's unsafe, wouldn't' you think this would be jumped on right away since passenger vehicles don't have redundant tires?
I'll continue reading, but my mind is pretty much made up unless I find some concrete information elsewhere. I hate to admit it, but I also do many things that are 100% more dangerous then the very small fraction of possible de-laminated tires from retreads, or NEW tires for that matter. Its like people who won't fly because of planes crashing, yet planes are statistically one of the safest forms of transportation.
I think it's a dark cloud that lingers on their head, but I think with new processes they are beginning to make ground. I also LOVE the fact they are recycled, preventing one more tire from going to the landfill and being that much less dependent on new oil.
I'll peruse through this link, but right off the bat I found this interesting:
"Currently, there are no nationally mandated manufacturing or performance standards for medium- or heavy-duty tire retreads. Recognizing this situation, the general public may perceive that the lack of standards may result in no or weak standards or ineffective enforcement of standards. However, there are manufacturing standards governing retread quality that are industry-driven and that significantly improved the manufacturing quality of retread tires in recent years."
Treadwright are DOT and transportation approved. If there were solid data saying it's unsafe, wouldn't' you think this would be jumped on right away since passenger vehicles don't have redundant tires?
I'll continue reading, but my mind is pretty much made up unless I find some concrete information elsewhere. I hate to admit it, but I also do many things that are 100% more dangerous then the very small fraction of possible de-laminated tires from retreads, or NEW tires for that matter. Its like people who won't fly because of planes crashing, yet planes are statistically one of the safest forms of transportation.
I think it's a dark cloud that lingers on their head, but I think with new processes they are beginning to make ground. I also LOVE the fact they are recycled, preventing one more tire from going to the landfill and being that much less dependent on new oil.
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Onto the next paragraph:
"The Tire Retread and Repair Information Bureau (TRIB) and Technology and Maintenance Council (TMC) of the American Trucking Associations (ATA) contend that retreads are just as safe as new tires and that tire failures occur mostly due to lack of maintenance of the tire or through road hazard injury."
In the end it all has to be taken with a grain of salt. There is no concrete data showing they are unsafe, or new tires are safer. As mentioned, blow outs, de-laminations, and other complete failures happen on ALL tires.
They are gaining popularity in passenger vehicles so I guess we'll see what happens in the future. Till then, people like me need to test them =)
"The Tire Retread and Repair Information Bureau (TRIB) and Technology and Maintenance Council (TMC) of the American Trucking Associations (ATA) contend that retreads are just as safe as new tires and that tire failures occur mostly due to lack of maintenance of the tire or through road hazard injury."
In the end it all has to be taken with a grain of salt. There is no concrete data showing they are unsafe, or new tires are safer. As mentioned, blow outs, de-laminations, and other complete failures happen on ALL tires.
They are gaining popularity in passenger vehicles so I guess we'll see what happens in the future. Till then, people like me need to test them =)
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yea! Furthermore, what does "tire maintenance" mean, how old is too old? And they mention this sort of "market driven quality standards" driving the trucker retread industry but how much of that technology is actually used by treadwright? Since they seem to be the ONLY choice in passenger vehicle retreads that fit SUVs is that same level of quality control applied or are we transferring concepts. Without actual passenger retread data it is really difficult to make a decision since looking at this study, the only REAL study, we don't really know if we can extrapolate the data to the particular offerings of treadwright. If improvements in retread safety in recent years is significant then do we know if the changes responsible for that are being implemented by treadwright? I wish they could read this thread and answer some of these speculations directly...
rebelbowtie
New member
If anything this has sparked a good debate, my stand is still against retreads on passenger cars.
yea! Furthermore, what does "tire maintenance" mean, how old is too old? And they mention this sort of "market driven quality standards" driving the trucker retread industry but how much of that technology is actually used by treadwright? Since they seem to be the ONLY choice in passenger vehicle retreads that fit SUVs is that same level of quality control applied or are we transferring concepts. Without actual passenger retread data it is really difficult to make a decision since looking at this study, the only REAL study, we don't really know if we can extrapolate the data to the particular offerings of treadwright. If improvements in retread safety in recent years is significant then do we know if the changes responsible for that are being implemented by treadwright? I wish they could read this thread and answer some of these speculations directly...
All I can say is to do your own research. Ask Treadwright if needed, etc.
Nobody can make this decision for you.
On that article they mention %, but without knowing the percentage of tires on the road, I can't see how some of their findings are factual. Say 100% of failures are retreads, but what happens if 100% of the tires were retreads? That's a very solid piece of info they are missing. In either event, so far from my reading their findings seem to sway back and forth and have no concrete answer.
As mentioned, this is assuming they are using the same process. Additional to that, I can wager and say that passenger truck tire see a much easier life with less load, lower miles, etc.
All comes down to doing your own research.
"The analysis of tire fragments and casings collected in this study has found that the proportion of tire debris from retread tires and OE tires is similar to the estimated proportion of retread and OE tires in service. Indeed, the OE versus retread proportions of the collected tire debris broadly correlated with accepted industry expectations."
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If anything this has sparked a good debate, my stand is still against retreads on passenger cars.
I was going to make a post in the 3rd forum for discussion, but then deleted it thinking ideally it should be on this forum's general section. After googling it appears there are a few posts already about it in various 4runner generations.
Not sure if it's worth it to keep a discussion going elsewhere, or just plug goggle for discussions.
I've read many threads on the retreads and they come down to bipartisan rationalizing, there seems to be an actual lack of detailed factual data that can quantify the perceived risk in any meaningful way to the analytical mind...which is why it would be nice to get word from treadwright beyond their prima fascia "marketing materials" and get into answering the kinds of questions posed in this thread.
rebelbowtie
New member
I've read many threads on the retreads and they come down to bipartisan rationalizing, there seems to be an actual lack of detailed factual data that can quantify the perceived risk in any meaningful way to the analytical mind...which is why it would be nice to get word from treadwright beyond their prima fascia "marketing materials" and get into answering the kinds of questions posed in this thread.
Well you want to be the guy to get that info?
rebelbowtie
New member
That's what I like to hear
Lots of guys on the disco forums run treadwrights I'd have gone that route but there was a wait for my size.....
As far as tall skinny ie 255/85/16 km2 the sidewalls are suceptable to puncture pretty bad I ruined 2 kms in 100 miles of having them installed 1 puncture from a stick and 1 from a rock both sidewalls.
There's also info around about the sidewalls of them being the main issue aside of lack of siping (easy to remedy) and the lateral sliding from tread design (will slide sideways pretty easy)....
That being said I'm running them (km2S) 305/70/16 (measures 33.4) and getting them siped and like em a lot. Got road hazard so I'm not too worried but i would watch the sidewalls on the thinner.
Just my .02 or first hand info....
As far as tall skinny ie 255/85/16 km2 the sidewalls are suceptable to puncture pretty bad I ruined 2 kms in 100 miles of having them installed 1 puncture from a stick and 1 from a rock both sidewalls.
There's also info around about the sidewalls of them being the main issue aside of lack of siping (easy to remedy) and the lateral sliding from tread design (will slide sideways pretty easy)....
That being said I'm running them (km2S) 305/70/16 (measures 33.4) and getting them siped and like em a lot. Got road hazard so I'm not too worried but i would watch the sidewalls on the thinner.
Just my .02 or first hand info....
Lots of guys on the disco forums run treadwrights I'd have gone that route but there was a wait for my size.....
As far as tall skinny ie 255/85/16 km2 the sidewalls are suceptable to puncture pretty bad I ruined 2 kms in 100 miles of having them installed 1 puncture from a stick and 1 from a rock both sidewalls.
There's also info around about the sidewalls of them being the main issue aside of lack of siping (easy to remedy) and the lateral sliding from tread design (will slide sideways pretty easy)....
That being said I'm running them (km2S) 305/70/16 (measures 33.4) and getting them siped and like em a lot. Got road hazard so I'm not too worried but i would watch the sidewalls on the thinner.
Just my .02 or first hand info....
I have heard some complaints regarding sidewall puncture resistance too..
One step ahead of you...results pending.
:hungry:
rebelbowtie
New member
I have never heard of any BFG having weak sidewall. The KM2's in fact are made for the rocks as they use the same KM Krawler carcass with TriGuard sidewalls.
I know I put mine through heavy abuse for 2 years daily driving and hitting the trails every single weekend.
I know I put mine through heavy abuse for 2 years daily driving and hitting the trails every single weekend.
Just in case you were curious, this is the initial reply I received, I suspect he knows how...fastidious we are and is putting together the best info available:
"I was forwarded your information request and just wanted to verify what I read and what is being asked.*
1) Is the TreadWright process similar to the truck tire retreading process, especially as related to technology used?
2) What age of casings are accepted for retreading?
Outside of that it appears you have pulled much of the information available on studies relating to retreaded tire safety.* I'm not sure I could supply more there other then anecdotal information from our experience over the last 35 years.* As you can imagine, the tire industry has changed dramatically over years and has been influenced by many factors including the economy, raw material availability, new technology, and consumer demand.* I would be happy to provide an answer to the questions to the best of my ability.*
Would answering the above questions in detail be sufficient?"
"I was forwarded your information request and just wanted to verify what I read and what is being asked.*
1) Is the TreadWright process similar to the truck tire retreading process, especially as related to technology used?
2) What age of casings are accepted for retreading?
Outside of that it appears you have pulled much of the information available on studies relating to retreaded tire safety.* I'm not sure I could supply more there other then anecdotal information from our experience over the last 35 years.* As you can imagine, the tire industry has changed dramatically over years and has been influenced by many factors including the economy, raw material availability, new technology, and consumer demand.* I would be happy to provide an answer to the questions to the best of my ability.*
Would answering the above questions in detail be sufficient?"
