When you travel....THINK!
- Thread starter Titanpat57
- Start date
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fargo4x4
New member
Sorry for the delayed response. This image has been shared literally everywhere. Most people already have their minds made up and will troll and do as they please. We have been threatened quite aggressively, had racial slurs private messaged to us and much more. To be honest this forum from what I can tell is hands down the most respectful out of all the places we have seen this shared to slander us. Its truly amazing how many people were jumping at the bit to slander my accounts when we have done literally nothing but represent the off road and overland community in the best light and those who have actually wheeled with us know what we are about.
Anywho I will give some back history of that day, our statement and the most recent update and that will be essentially all i have to say on this.
That day we organized an informal group ride of sorts... essentially we just posted on different social media platforms where we would be, roughly what day and time and if anyone wanted to hop in on the ride that we welcomed them. A few folks showed up so we convoyed in and pretty much had a great ride as many rides we have done in the past. We made it up to the top and everyone proceeded to pose for pictures etc... i personally didnt write anything... nor did I know about it until someone who i thought was looking out for us had sent me a message on social media asking why our names were there. But I didnt know where it was specifically written or by whom. I assumed maybe my wife (hand writing is much better then mine) or mother (another person i brought up there) etc but later on when i asked they told me they hadnt done it.
After i saw a picture it also did strike me odd that literally ALL of my accounts and even a date would all be there. Seems a bit overkill. For those of you who think i would write it for followers... I assure you we have never had a problem getting followers the right way. By representing the community in the best possible light... Anyway once i was informed i contacted BLM to see what could be done, emails werent answered and as time went on the keyboard warriors continued to escalate the situation... until we got where we are today... There is a good chance someone in my group could have done it or someone who thought we would see it i dont for sure know... and since I am technically the one that organized it all and since of course it was my accounts that were photographed im here (and every other place ive seen us being slandered) addressing the masses concerns.
Statement-
After a recent group ride to Top of the World, Moab, UT, we were informed of pictures that showed several of our affiliated social media accounts and hashtags--as well as those of others’ with whom we are not affiliated--written on the rocks. We are contacting each person that was part of this informal gathering, both friends and first-time acquaintances, to help us provide all information that can be of use to the authorities, in order to come to a resolution.
We have contacted local authorities and we will provide full cooperation to ensure that this matter is remediated appropriately. Those who are familiar with us and our work, know that we are as passionate and engaged in responsible wheeling as the majority of the off-road community.
We understand that this is something that could negatively affect the 4x4 community. The trails are here for us all and we appreciate the continuous efforts by federal, state and local agencies that help keep the trails open through their legislative support, countless volunteer hours and maintenance work.
Other people whose social media accounts were found at this site have already received death threats. We have not escaped unscathed either. While we understand the frustration that many have expressed from these events, we would like to remind you that despite whatever mistakes that were committed, there are real people involved in this and we believe that this can be discussed without the racial and sexual slurs, profanity, threats and derogatory discrimination that has been received via social media comments, personal messages, etc.
This has been a learning experience which has emphasized the importance of treading lightly and a strong reminder of the reason why we proudly support such a passionate group of people. We hope that the rest of this situation can be resolved in a civilized and respectful manner so that we can once again portray the off-road community in a positive, united manner.
We appreciate your patience and understanding throughout this process and hope to resolve this matter quickly.
Thank you,
RuggedPix & Nomadders
Latest Update-
We contacted the BLM this morning by phone and after getting forwarded all over the place we finally broke through and spoke with "Myles". He was quite helpful and explained "this happens quite often" and mentioned they have intent of sending a "clean up" to remove w.e. they find. Although he didn't give us an expected date and time.. We got the impression it would be very soon. We asked him to let us know what we can do to facilitate the process not only for the portion that was written about us but also to help clean up w.e else was found. We have also extended out some financial support to anyone local willing to help us get w.e has been written removed so the BLM doesnt have to waste their time. So we proceeded to get a group organized to remove it a few days from now. then we called the BLM again and were told they were doing a clean up today.
Obviously a picture of a blank rock isnt going to stop those who already pulled out their pitchforks and slandered me but that is the update we have. So were just trying to be transparent. Hopefully we will get some statement from BLM or proof but im not holding my breath. I am sure they have other things to deal with.
Anywho I will give some back history of that day, our statement and the most recent update and that will be essentially all i have to say on this.
That day we organized an informal group ride of sorts... essentially we just posted on different social media platforms where we would be, roughly what day and time and if anyone wanted to hop in on the ride that we welcomed them. A few folks showed up so we convoyed in and pretty much had a great ride as many rides we have done in the past. We made it up to the top and everyone proceeded to pose for pictures etc... i personally didnt write anything... nor did I know about it until someone who i thought was looking out for us had sent me a message on social media asking why our names were there. But I didnt know where it was specifically written or by whom. I assumed maybe my wife (hand writing is much better then mine) or mother (another person i brought up there) etc but later on when i asked they told me they hadnt done it.
After i saw a picture it also did strike me odd that literally ALL of my accounts and even a date would all be there. Seems a bit overkill. For those of you who think i would write it for followers... I assure you we have never had a problem getting followers the right way. By representing the community in the best possible light... Anyway once i was informed i contacted BLM to see what could be done, emails werent answered and as time went on the keyboard warriors continued to escalate the situation... until we got where we are today... There is a good chance someone in my group could have done it or someone who thought we would see it i dont for sure know... and since I am technically the one that organized it all and since of course it was my accounts that were photographed im here (and every other place ive seen us being slandered) addressing the masses concerns.
Statement-
After a recent group ride to Top of the World, Moab, UT, we were informed of pictures that showed several of our affiliated social media accounts and hashtags--as well as those of others’ with whom we are not affiliated--written on the rocks. We are contacting each person that was part of this informal gathering, both friends and first-time acquaintances, to help us provide all information that can be of use to the authorities, in order to come to a resolution.
We have contacted local authorities and we will provide full cooperation to ensure that this matter is remediated appropriately. Those who are familiar with us and our work, know that we are as passionate and engaged in responsible wheeling as the majority of the off-road community.
We understand that this is something that could negatively affect the 4x4 community. The trails are here for us all and we appreciate the continuous efforts by federal, state and local agencies that help keep the trails open through their legislative support, countless volunteer hours and maintenance work.
Other people whose social media accounts were found at this site have already received death threats. We have not escaped unscathed either. While we understand the frustration that many have expressed from these events, we would like to remind you that despite whatever mistakes that were committed, there are real people involved in this and we believe that this can be discussed without the racial and sexual slurs, profanity, threats and derogatory discrimination that has been received via social media comments, personal messages, etc.
This has been a learning experience which has emphasized the importance of treading lightly and a strong reminder of the reason why we proudly support such a passionate group of people. We hope that the rest of this situation can be resolved in a civilized and respectful manner so that we can once again portray the off-road community in a positive, united manner.
We appreciate your patience and understanding throughout this process and hope to resolve this matter quickly.
Thank you,
RuggedPix & Nomadders
Latest Update-
We contacted the BLM this morning by phone and after getting forwarded all over the place we finally broke through and spoke with "Myles". He was quite helpful and explained "this happens quite often" and mentioned they have intent of sending a "clean up" to remove w.e. they find. Although he didn't give us an expected date and time.. We got the impression it would be very soon. We asked him to let us know what we can do to facilitate the process not only for the portion that was written about us but also to help clean up w.e else was found. We have also extended out some financial support to anyone local willing to help us get w.e has been written removed so the BLM doesnt have to waste their time. So we proceeded to get a group organized to remove it a few days from now. then we called the BLM again and were told they were doing a clean up today.
Obviously a picture of a blank rock isnt going to stop those who already pulled out their pitchforks and slandered me but that is the update we have. So were just trying to be transparent. Hopefully we will get some statement from BLM or proof but im not holding my breath. I am sure they have other things to deal with.
STX4Runner
New member
I'm glad this forum has been the most reasonable to deal with. I can't imagine the nightmare of having some idiot defile nature in your name and then post it online. Sounds like you're going above and beyond to fix it. BTW, none of my comments were specifically directed at you, but rather whoever it was that wrote on the rocks, and whoever was making death threats and racial remarks needs to get a grip on life and step out from behind the keyboard.
Cymon
New member
Glad you got to clarify Eddie, hope people can learn from the situation.
fargo4x4
New member
No i didnt feel you were attacking me. and look if people who we drove up or who went with us or went there before and after because of us decide to write on a rock, and include us in their penmanship its still falls back on us at least thats how i felt so the least we can do is be proactive and transparent
Knight-Errant
New member
Go to the Catskills and you'll see names carved into the stone along the year (usually the 1800s to the present) and people who see it say "wow that is cool".
Go to the pyramids and you will see the names of European explorers carved into the stone and people who see it say, "wow that is cool."
I wonder how much of this is real outrage or people just jumping on the bandwagon. I wonder if people will be fascinated by these markings 200 years from now and say "wow that is cool."
Anyhow....I guess we better send clean up crews for all that cave art....they really should have known better.
Go to the pyramids and you will see the names of European explorers carved into the stone and people who see it say, "wow that is cool."
I wonder how much of this is real outrage or people just jumping on the bandwagon. I wonder if people will be fascinated by these markings 200 years from now and say "wow that is cool."
Anyhow....I guess we better send clean up crews for all that cave art....they really should have known better.
Attachments
Spaulding Metals
New member
This is how places get shut down. I can only hope that my kid will be able to go see the places I have before things like this ruin spots or worse get them shut down for the next generation. But I commend your honesty and willingness to deal with the situation appropriately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fargo4x4 View Post
Sorry for the delayed response. This image has been shared literally everywhere. Most people already have their minds made up and will troll and do as they please. We have been threatened quite aggressively, had racial slurs private messaged to us and much more. To be honest this forum from what I can tell is hands down the most respectful out of all the places we have seen this shared to slander us. Its truly amazing how many people were jumping at the bit to slander my accounts when we have done literally nothing but represent the off road and overland community in the best light and those who have actually wheeled with us know what we are about.
Anywho I will give some back history of that day, our statement and the most recent update and that will be essentially all i have to say on this.
That day we organized an informal group ride of sorts... essentially we just posted on different social media platforms where we would be, roughly what day and time and if anyone wanted to hop in on the ride that we welcomed them. A few folks showed up so we convoyed in and pretty much had a great ride as many rides we have done in the past. We made it up to the top and everyone proceeded to pose for pictures etc... i personally didnt write anything... nor did I know about it until someone who i thought was looking out for us had sent me a message on social media asking why our names were there. But I didnt know where it was specifically written or by whom. I assumed maybe my wife (hand writing is much better then mine) or mother (another person i brought up there) etc but later on when i asked they told me they hadnt done it.
After i saw a picture it also did strike me odd that literally ALL of my accounts and even a date would all be there. Seems a bit overkill. For those of you who think i would write it for followers... I assure you we have never had a problem getting followers the right way. By representing the community in the best possible light... Anyway once i was informed i contacted BLM to see what could be done, emails werent answered and as time went on the keyboard warriors continued to escalate the situation... until we got where we are today... There is a good chance someone in my group could have done it or someone who thought we would see it i dont for sure know... and since I am technically the one that organized it all and since of course it was my accounts that were photographed im here (and every other place ive seen us being slandered) addressing the masses concerns.
Statement-
After a recent group ride to Top of the World, Moab, UT, we were informed of pictures that showed several of our affiliated social media accounts and hashtags--as well as those of others’ with whom we are not affiliated--written on the rocks. We are contacting each person that was part of this informal gathering, both friends and first-time acquaintances, to help us provide all information that can be of use to the authorities, in order to come to a resolution.
We have contacted local authorities and we will provide full cooperation to ensure that this matter is remediated appropriately. Those who are familiar with us and our work, know that we are as passionate and engaged in responsible wheeling as the majority of the off-road community.
We understand that this is something that could negatively affect the 4x4 community. The trails are here for us all and we appreciate the continuous efforts by federal, state and local agencies that help keep the trails open through their legislative support, countless volunteer hours and maintenance work.
Other people whose social media accounts were found at this site have already received death threats. We have not escaped unscathed either. While we understand the frustration that many have expressed from these events, we would like to remind you that despite whatever mistakes that were committed, there are real people involved in this and we believe that this can be discussed without the racial and sexual slurs, profanity, threats and derogatory discrimination that has been received via social media comments, personal messages, etc.
This has been a learning experience which has emphasized the importance of treading lightly and a strong reminder of the reason why we proudly support such a passionate group of people. We hope that the rest of this situation can be resolved in a civilized and respectful manner so that we can once again portray the off-road community in a positive, united manner.
We appreciate your patience and understanding throughout this process and hope to resolve this matter quickly.
Thank you,
RuggedPix & Nomadders
Latest Update-
We contacted the BLM this morning by phone and after getting forwarded all over the place we finally broke through and spoke with "Myles". He was quite helpful and explained "this happens quite often" and mentioned they have intent of sending a "clean up" to remove w.e. they find. Although he didn't give us an expected date and time.. We got the impression it would be very soon. We asked him to let us know what we can do to facilitate the process not only for the portion that was written about us but also to help clean up w.e else was found. We have also extended out some financial support to anyone local willing to help us get w.e has been written removed so the BLM doesnt have to waste their time. So we proceeded to get a group organized to remove it a few days from now. then we called the BLM again and were told they were doing a clean up today.
Obviously a picture of a blank rock isnt going to stop those who already pulled out their pitchforks and slandered me but that is the update we have. So were just trying to be transparent. Hopefully we will get some statement from BLM or proof but im not holding my breath. I am sure they have other things to deal with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fargo4x4 View Post
Sorry for the delayed response. This image has been shared literally everywhere. Most people already have their minds made up and will troll and do as they please. We have been threatened quite aggressively, had racial slurs private messaged to us and much more. To be honest this forum from what I can tell is hands down the most respectful out of all the places we have seen this shared to slander us. Its truly amazing how many people were jumping at the bit to slander my accounts when we have done literally nothing but represent the off road and overland community in the best light and those who have actually wheeled with us know what we are about.
Anywho I will give some back history of that day, our statement and the most recent update and that will be essentially all i have to say on this.
That day we organized an informal group ride of sorts... essentially we just posted on different social media platforms where we would be, roughly what day and time and if anyone wanted to hop in on the ride that we welcomed them. A few folks showed up so we convoyed in and pretty much had a great ride as many rides we have done in the past. We made it up to the top and everyone proceeded to pose for pictures etc... i personally didnt write anything... nor did I know about it until someone who i thought was looking out for us had sent me a message on social media asking why our names were there. But I didnt know where it was specifically written or by whom. I assumed maybe my wife (hand writing is much better then mine) or mother (another person i brought up there) etc but later on when i asked they told me they hadnt done it.
After i saw a picture it also did strike me odd that literally ALL of my accounts and even a date would all be there. Seems a bit overkill. For those of you who think i would write it for followers... I assure you we have never had a problem getting followers the right way. By representing the community in the best possible light... Anyway once i was informed i contacted BLM to see what could be done, emails werent answered and as time went on the keyboard warriors continued to escalate the situation... until we got where we are today... There is a good chance someone in my group could have done it or someone who thought we would see it i dont for sure know... and since I am technically the one that organized it all and since of course it was my accounts that were photographed im here (and every other place ive seen us being slandered) addressing the masses concerns.
Statement-
After a recent group ride to Top of the World, Moab, UT, we were informed of pictures that showed several of our affiliated social media accounts and hashtags--as well as those of others’ with whom we are not affiliated--written on the rocks. We are contacting each person that was part of this informal gathering, both friends and first-time acquaintances, to help us provide all information that can be of use to the authorities, in order to come to a resolution.
We have contacted local authorities and we will provide full cooperation to ensure that this matter is remediated appropriately. Those who are familiar with us and our work, know that we are as passionate and engaged in responsible wheeling as the majority of the off-road community.
We understand that this is something that could negatively affect the 4x4 community. The trails are here for us all and we appreciate the continuous efforts by federal, state and local agencies that help keep the trails open through their legislative support, countless volunteer hours and maintenance work.
Other people whose social media accounts were found at this site have already received death threats. We have not escaped unscathed either. While we understand the frustration that many have expressed from these events, we would like to remind you that despite whatever mistakes that were committed, there are real people involved in this and we believe that this can be discussed without the racial and sexual slurs, profanity, threats and derogatory discrimination that has been received via social media comments, personal messages, etc.
This has been a learning experience which has emphasized the importance of treading lightly and a strong reminder of the reason why we proudly support such a passionate group of people. We hope that the rest of this situation can be resolved in a civilized and respectful manner so that we can once again portray the off-road community in a positive, united manner.
We appreciate your patience and understanding throughout this process and hope to resolve this matter quickly.
Thank you,
RuggedPix & Nomadders
Latest Update-
We contacted the BLM this morning by phone and after getting forwarded all over the place we finally broke through and spoke with "Myles". He was quite helpful and explained "this happens quite often" and mentioned they have intent of sending a "clean up" to remove w.e. they find. Although he didn't give us an expected date and time.. We got the impression it would be very soon. We asked him to let us know what we can do to facilitate the process not only for the portion that was written about us but also to help clean up w.e else was found. We have also extended out some financial support to anyone local willing to help us get w.e has been written removed so the BLM doesnt have to waste their time. So we proceeded to get a group organized to remove it a few days from now. then we called the BLM again and were told they were doing a clean up today.
Obviously a picture of a blank rock isnt going to stop those who already pulled out their pitchforks and slandered me but that is the update we have. So were just trying to be transparent. Hopefully we will get some statement from BLM or proof but im not holding my breath. I am sure they have other things to deal with.
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Titanpat57
Senior Member
I'm glad you spoke up here...that's purposely why I stayed off your thread. I'm relieved to find out you didn't do it, but none the less people have to stop this BS....
jrandom
New member
Uhh, no they won't.
It is about context and about dilution.
You point to "cave art" as graffiti. That was done as a ledger for regional resources or other valuable information so that other travelers of the day would know that they could find food or water or other necessities. Don't be ridiculous. Sure had they had pen and paper they would have used them.
As someone that lives (and travels) in a state that has 10 of thousands of "open" fragile desert acres to explore, 7 national parks, 8 National Monuments, over 40 State Parks, all of which have a need to co-exist with Native-American history, it hits folks hard to see careless (or unknowing/naive) individuals do disrespectful acts.
Yeah I have done stupid stuff around here (nearly 30 years ago), stuff I regret to this day, because of those things some have been closed and I will never get to enjoy them the same ever again, nor will anyone else. We learn, or at least we are supposed too, we all need to be a little more conscientious as our population increases.
SirBarton
New member
a
That'a a pretty carefully worded statement so as not to take any responsibility or lay blame.....
It's really stupid and unfortunate and sadly more and more common. Otherwise intelligent people turn to complete morons when they do anything involved with social media.
EDIT: Looks like the vagueness of the statement was sufficiently explained in a post while I was typing.
That'a a pretty carefully worded statement so as not to take any responsibility or lay blame.....
It's really stupid and unfortunate and sadly more and more common. Otherwise intelligent people turn to complete morons when they do anything involved with social media.
EDIT: Looks like the vagueness of the statement was sufficiently explained in a post while I was typing.
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Blitzkrieg
New member
I have a simple rule.
I take only photos and I leave only footprints. I live by that wherever I go.
That's all I have to say about that.
I take only photos and I leave only footprints. I live by that wherever I go.
That's all I have to say about that.
wfo9
New member
No the crazy times we live in are where everyone loves to hate and be outraged (yet not do a darn thing to offer a solution). The media streams have all conditioned us all to take sides and hate without having any real facts. Nobody ever wants to help or solve a problem, just take pictures and create a big angry mob.... pretty sad way to live if you ask me. Hate and judgement seem to sell these days.. common sense has been mostly thrown out the door.
BTW, I Never said defacing was a good thing or frowning on it was the act of a "monster". The only monsters are people who make death threats without knowing all the facts and put human life below rocks that have been there for thousands of years and will continue to evolve....
This little act of stupidity by whoever it was is a very small thing in the grand scheme of things.
sn_85
Senior Member
Actually if you follow the trail it's a well written and vague statement that has been copied and pasted multiple times on various forums (TW included) by members that had their handle written on that rock. It's brilliant if you ask me because by each member writing the exact same "press" statement the blame just goes round and round. I mean not only do they have an official statement released but they used the same responses as well acting as if they wrote their own explanation. To me it seems disingenuous that multiple members pasted the same exact statement and phrases on different forums and it's no better than the dirty tactics employed by politicians.
A quote from TW. Look familiar...?
TorconTRD said:
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Titanpat57
Senior Member
Yes...realizing it's pasted across the boards like that make it totally disingenuous....just shows what people's true colors are.
I'm sure someone knows something, and it'll be great fun and games until the law gets involved...then it'll turn into a finger pointing fest...lol
I'm sure someone knows something, and it'll be great fun and games until the law gets involved...then it'll turn into a finger pointing fest...lol
Knight-Errant
New member
Since the dawn of time whenever human beings traveled to far off places they've left their mark to say "I was here." On rocks, on trees. Piling up stones to serve as a marking. It pretty much is what human beings do.
I don't think the cave art is graffiti, but I do think a mob getting riled up and calling for blood because somebody wrote a name on a rock with chalk says way more about the mob than the person who wrote their name.
Bottles, trash, spare tires, that bothers me. If I'm hiking I pick trash up and put it in my cargo pockets. Some chalk on a rock that will be blown away is by no means an indicator of the impending collapse of civilization.
Let's not delude ourselves, environmentalist want to shut down trails because they hate SUVs and the fact that you're there with one, it is not because of chalk on a rock. We could all be driving hydrogen powered 4runners, and they'd still want to shut the trails down.
Everyone complaining on here drives a gas guzzling SUV, puts bigger tires on them, and a rack, which drops the mpg down even lower....puts on tons of aftermarket parts which is all extra manufacturing and waste (both in the manufacturing process and shipping), brags about how many miles they drive and put on their truck (more gas and CO2). I see the photos of Moab and how the rocks are dark from the tires....and you're all going to pile on and cry about how a tiny bit chalk on a rock in the middle of nowhere is environmental genocide and how you're personally offended?
Give me a break.
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Black chalk ?
Knight-Errant
New member
Crayola includes it...
To the next person that is there, if it is still there and if you see it, and if it bothers you, then wipe it off, just like I pick up beer cans and trash. Simple solution.
Seems like a more balanced approach than calling for a costly federal investigation and prosecution and somebody getting a misdemeanor that could ruin their life.
If you all like the trails and want to protect them, then pony up and do what you can to make it a little better the next time you're there. It happened, and it will happen again (like I said, people like to leave their mark on stuff)...the reaction here seems a bit much for some chalk.
https://www.amazon.com/BIN510403-Cr...&qid=1470441221&sr=8-2&keywords=colored+chalk
https://www.amazon.com/Box-Chalk-St...F8&qid=1470441146&sr=8-3&keywords=black+chalk
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