When you travel....THINK!

[ECUDrummer]

I kind of find this whole thing a bit humorous, to be quite honest. Not that someone wrote on the rocks (Instagram handles, at that). Just the fact that it's riled up this witch hunt. Personally, I think all of those crying wolf either ITT, on the various boards and on FB are probably bringing just as much attention (if not more) to this than, say, someone who hiked or wheeled the trail and pitched a fit over it. Wouldn't more attention (especially in the form of email or social media) and more eyeballs from the authorities increase the chance of limited or restricted access on the mentioned trails?

Personally, I don't view it as that big of a deal as it's made out to be. I don't think Fargo and Nomadders would have spent this much time doing damage control had they been bullshitting, even if it's the same message.

I guess what I'm saying is save your pitchforks. There's always bigger fish to fry in the world.

 

[SirBarton]

Actually if you follow the trail it's a well written and vague statement that has been copied and pasted multiple times on various forums (TW included) by members that had their handle written on that rock. It's brilliant if you ask me because by each member writing the exact same "press" statement the blame just goes round and round. I mean not only do they have an official statement released but they used the same responses as well acting as if they wrote their own explanation. To me it seems disingenuous that multiple members pasted the same exact statement and phrases on different forums and it's no better than the dirty tactics employed by politicians.

A quote from TW. Look familiar...?

I didn't know that. That's clearly a big lie then. What a bunch of idiots.

Why not just admit it and clean it up?

They will probably gain even more "followers" on their stupid social media accounts.

Never trust the guys who want to build rigs to get away from it all but are obsessed with gaining followers on facebook.

 

[5ontheFloor]

Why can't we just go back to the days when you left your mark by going on a tree or dropping a deuce? J/K guys...but seriously this is nuts. There are many valid points here. I want to enjoy the outdoors but a Prius won't get me up a mountain or through the bush to a secluded fishing spot. Yes the environment can care for itself to some degree, but we must all nurture and care for it so that our future generations can enjoy what we have enjoyed. That will also not stop me from enjoying my SUV nor do I feel guilty for driving one.

 

[BLACK-FL4RUNNER]

The sun and rain would of taken care of those markings quite quickly.
I'm not sure what the big deal is.

I think we've all done stupid stuff when we were younger, we just didn't have social media accounts and forums to share it with everyone. lol

You guys need to get a grip on reality, and focus on more important things.

:baby:

 

[oljedi11950]

Ah yes "Killroy was here" ! Not sure of the level of the responses but anytime we see stuff that SHOULDN'T be there it's a bummer & totally juvenile ! Death threats PLEASE almost as bad as the act itself or worse ? Seen much worse not that that's an excuse ! And then to leave your @ wow morons wow ! Wanted to be outted it seems jeez ? Oh well maybe Trump can build a wall !!!!

 

[Cymon]

Actually if you follow the trail it's a well written and vague statement that has been copied and pasted multiple times on various forums (TW included) by members that had their handle written on that rock. It's brilliant if you ask me because by each member writing the exact same "press" statement the blame just goes round and round. I mean not only do they have an official statement released but they used the same responses as well acting as if they wrote their own explanation. To me it seems disingenuous that multiple members pasted the same exact statement and phrases on different forums and it's no better than the dirty tactics employed by politicians.

A quote from TW. Look familiar...?

Just as an FYI...it's all the same person as it is a couple who own two trucks, a 4Runner and Tacoma. They also posess all of the handles you see on the rock written in black. It absolutely doesn't resolve or excuse what happened but to call them liars because the same person posted the same message on several forums/groups that they belong to in order to state their point of view across multiple fronts Ina expedited fashion is really jumping to conclusions.

People can believe what they want about the statement. I think we can all agree what occurred was appalling, sad and inexcusable, but be careful about passing judgement without all of the facts.

 

[BrianSD_42]

The thread on IH8MUD was deleted.

Death threats are a negative and all but the real criminals are those defacing public property. IMO so what if someone received a meaningless online threat. Have you ever read the Youtube comments section of a video? Don't assume internet talk is going to actually go somewhere. The only thing REAL is the REAL damage to our national parks and the reputation of the 4 wheeling community.

Hopefully the government tracks down and prosecutes these individuals like they did that female artist/blogger who was tagging multiple national parks in Utah about a 1-2 years ago. She was convicted.

Woman Banned from 20% of America
* http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ations-posting-evidence-crimes-Instagram.html
* http://www.latimes.com/local/califo...tist-sentenced---20160620-snap-htmlstory.html


Want to know who did it? Try enlisting Reddit. Laugh all you want but they're pretty good at tracking people down.

Reddit users help feds nab graffiti vandal who defaced US national parks
* http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...raffiti-vandal-who-defaced-us-national-parks/

:roadkill:

 

[jrandom]

Since the dawn of time whenever human beings traveled to far off places they've left their mark to say "I was here." On rocks, on trees. Piling up stones to serve as a marking. It pretty much is what human beings do.

I don't think the cave art is graffiti, but I do think a mob getting riled up and calling for blood because somebody wrote a name on a rock with chalk says way more about the mob than the person who wrote their name.

I don't see anyone here calling for blood or getting super upset. I don't disagree with a lot of what you've said.

Seriously, I know, one million people a year visit the same place you think the same rules apply? They can't. Context, too many people doing the same thing, heavy impact. Dilution, too many people doing the same thing, it has less significance. When one person does it ~35% more will likely do it too.

It rains in the desert typically less than 10 inches a year, it won't wash away or blow away. Yes, I clean up trash too. Human waste does not decompose in the desert, it dries up instead, there is human shit, tampons, and toilet paper at even some of the most remote wilderness camps, and will be there for hundreds of years if not longer. It is discusting. Wet environments heal exponentially faster than dry ones.

I don't disagree about the tires marks BUT they are the trail marker. Just like horse/people/motorcycle/ect. tracks, ruts, shit rows.

Education is the answer yet people can't be bothered to learn or pull their head from phone. Like I said earlier, no matter what you do, as population increases everyone must be more conscientious of others.

 

[Titanpat57]

Crayola includes it...

To the next person that is there, if it is still there and if you see it, and if it bothers you, then wipe it off, just like I pick up beer cans and trash. Simple solution.

Seems like a more balanced approach than calling for a costly federal investigation and prosecution and somebody getting a misdemeanor that could ruin their life.

If you all like the trails and want to protect them, then pony up and do what you can to make it a little better the next time you're there. It happened, and it will happen again (like I said, people like to leave their mark on stuff)...the reaction here seems a bit much for some chalk.


https://www.amazon.com/BIN510403-Cr...&qid=1470441221&sr=8-2&keywords=colored+chalk

https://www.amazon.com/Box-Chalk-St...F8&qid=1470441146&sr=8-3&keywords=black+chalk

You're missing the point..today it's harmless chalk...(and some of it was written in permanent marker) then spray paint is right around the corner

Then you have a fuc kin "art" contest at 14000 feet.

I'd you want to live in world marred by childish asshats, that's you're prerogative ....I'd like to have a few places left here in this country where all the bullshit of society is left behind, and all that's left is some pristine beauty not vandalized by retards

.

 

[fargo4x4]

Actually if you follow the trail it's a well written and vague statement that has been copied and pasted multiple times on various forums (TW included) by members that had their handle written on that rock. It's brilliant if you ask me because by each member writing the exact same "press" statement the blame just goes round and round. I mean not only do they have an official statement released but they used the same responses as well acting as if they wrote their own explanation. To me it seems disingenuous that multiple members pasted the same exact statement and phrases on different forums and it's no better than the dirty tactics employed by politicians.

A quote from TW. Look familiar...?

Its different members on different forums because i dont have the same member name on each forum... so i answered with the accounts i use there... unless someone totally unaffiliated to me shared it in which case private message it to me so i can see. and if anyone thinks im going to write unique statements, on 19+ facebook groups, 15+ forums and countless social media accounts slandering us ya sorry not realistic, it doesnt matter whats written people had their opinions a long time ago i simply came to provide context on the other half of the story, i didnt write anything on the rock there that i know. Those who know me know i wouldnt do that. But regardless my name was the one photographed out of the names written there so out of respect for the community i felt the need to address it to you all direct. To the self righteous and the keyboard warriors out there job well done.

 

[Jeremy556]

Unless someone else is already doing it, and depending on the weather, I could go clean it up tomorrow or Sunday.

 

[wfo9]

The thread on IH8MUD was deleted.

Death threats are a negative and all but the real criminals are those defacing public property. IMO so what if someone received a meaningless online threat. Have you ever read the Youtube comments section of a video? Don't assume internet talk is going to actually go somewhere. The only thing REAL is the REAL damage to our national parks and the reputation of the 4 wheeling community.

Don't even know how to respond tho this mindset. :hatsoff: for leaving me speechless.

 

[ECUDrummer]

The thread on IH8MUD was deleted.

Death threats are a negative and all but the real criminals are those defacing public property. IMO so what if someone received a meaningless online threat. Have you ever read the Youtube comments section of a video? Don't assume internet talk is going to actually go somewhere. The only thing REAL is the REAL damage to our national parks and the reputation of the 4 wheeling community.

Hopefully the government tracks down and prosecutes these individuals like they did that female artist/blogger who was tagging multiple national parks in Utah about a 1-2 years ago. She was convicted.

Woman Banned from 20% of America
* Woman banned from US land for defacing rock formations and posting on Instagram | Daily Mail Online
* Woman who defiled national parks with graffiti banned from 524 million acres of public land - LA Times


Want to know who did it? Try enlisting Reddit. Laugh all you want but they're pretty good at tracking people down.

Reddit users help feds nab graffiti vandal who defaced US national parks
* Reddit users help feds nab graffiti vandal who defaced US national parks | Ars Technica

:roadkill:

Your logic is pretty fvcked up here, man. You make it seem like someone from the Fargo trail ride gave you a homemade tattoo with all of their Instagram handles.

#MakeInternettingGreatAgain

 

[wfo9]

Unless someone else is already doing it, and depending on the weather, I could go clean it up tomorrow or Sunday.

Awesome, someone with a solution vs more ridiculous over reaction. Wish i could join you but it would be a LOOONNNNGGG drive and my carbon footprint would cancel out my environmental good deed. Send me a paypal address and I'll donate some funds for gas and supplies....

#bepartofthesolution

 

[wfo9]

Somewhat related thing here... Sad Mangled Jeeps Left In A River After Plummeting Down A Mountain

Hopefully, this story comes to a good ending similar to how the jeep community helped out here... Imagine how the environmentalist Nazis reacted to this one...with fluids leeching into the river.... I wonder if the jeep forums were blazing with ridicule or solutions.

 

[T4RZAN]

Also willing to send some funds through PayPal if need be. Sucks that the 4 wheeling community is taking a hit like this and Fargo is getting the worst of it. But DOING something about it is going to be the only way to move forward. Let's get it cleaned up and move on.

 

[Jeremy556]

Awesome, someone with a solution vs more ridiculous over reaction. Wish i could join you but it would be a LOOONNNNGGG drive and my carbon footprint would cancel out my environmental good deed. Send me a paypal address and I'll donate some funds for gas and supplies....

#bepartofthesolution

From what my wife just told me, reading on another forum, the BLM sent someone to clean this up today. Top of the World is my back yard, so not much effort for me to get there. I may go anyway with a can of MEK and will confirm its cleanup either way.

Sharpie on sandstone, while dumb, is hardly the end of the world. It would be naturally erased by spring next year in that location. Shot up appliances, TVs, old tires, carving your name into or shooting ancient glyphs is far more worthy of scorn.

 

[flighht2k5]

Uhh, no they won't.



It is about context and about dilution.

You point to "cave art" as graffiti. That was done as a ledger for regional resources or other valuable information so that other travelers of the day would know that they could find food or water or other necessities. Don't be ridiculous. Sure had they had pen and paper they would have used them.

As someone that lives (and travels) in a state that has 10 of thousands of "open" fragile desert acres to explore, 7 national parks, 8 National Monuments, over 40 State Parks, all of which have a need to co-exist with Native-American history, it hits folks hard to see careless (or unknowing/naive) individuals do disrespectful acts.

Yeah I have done stupid stuff around here (nearly 30 years ago), stuff I regret to this day, because of those things some have been closed and I will never get to enjoy them the same ever again, nor will anyone else. We learn, or at least we are supposed too, we all need to be a little more conscientious as our population increases.

Uh yea they will

 

[jrandom]

Uh yea they will

hah no they won't you can't even pull up a week old post on FB, Twitter, or any other SM you think they will miss in in a couple hundred years? No one will even know it happened

 

[BrianSD_42]

Your logic is pretty fvcked up here, man. You make it seem like someone from the Fargo trail ride gave you a homemade tattoo with all of their Instagram handles.

#MakeInternettingGreatAgain

The first time I saw the pictures I thought they scratched it into the rock like some of the other offenders have. Some are saying it was chalk which frankly doesn't offend me very much.

My point about the threats is I doubt they were serious. Idiots say things on FB everyday. It's 99.9999% empty and meaningless.

Don't know what the Fargo trail ride is.

Btw the reason small outrage is justified is because when you look the other way at someone tossing out "just a small amount of trash" or a cigarette bud that was put out, tossed on the trail .... It may seem like no big deal but it is a dick move and illegal.

Chalk sure not a big deal. Sharpie though .... Wow what a f#cking @sshole to do that.

Top of the World is a great trail. I did it myself last year.