Why I am re-thinking every thing I know about Toyota

[kai920]

I am so sick of both of my Toyota vehicles. Excuse my rant.....

I have nothing but wheel balancing issues on my T4R. I had my first set of tires(Falken Rocky Mountains) balanced at least 6 times within 6000 miles before I threw such a fit to Discount Tire to replace them with Michelins, which were fine until I had them rotated and balanced two weeks ago. After three balancings(one being a Road Force) and countless hours wasted sitting at Discount Tire, the wheel vibration issue continues. There is no way this can be a wheel issue any longer.

I had the brakes done, new pads and rotors turned and then less than a year later had to have them re-turned due to unbelievable vibration and shaking when braking. Both times were done by an on vehicle lathe.

Add this to engine ticking, brake squealing, piston slap, sulfur smell(don't tell me its the gas, its not) creaky seats and more.

My wife's Camry 3.0 engine makes a whining noise that Toyota techs say isn't existent and I have had it at the stealership at least three times for a transmission issue that they also say doesn't exist. It also has a steering rod that makes a knock, which Toyota wont replace under warranty, but they know its an issue.

I'm about to trade in both of my Toyotas! For such great quality Toyota sure does have some issues. :rant:

 

[DC runner]

As for your tires. The 4 runner is a lug centric and I hear mention that some places don't properly balance with the haweka tire balance. In particular discount tire.

As for the others. I guess I have to disagree. I owned several older 4runners and a 99 Tacoma and my general impression is that the build quality is much, much better.

The engine is quieter, the ride smoother, the MPG better. The transmission shifts quicker and is more responsive. The truck is much sturdier in my opinion.

Then again, they were much simpler back then. Think about how complex a 83 4runner was. It wasn't. It was a carb'ed 4cylinder with the most basic of components. It rode like hell on the freeway and was horrible in turns. It was an awesome vehicle for its time, and the simplicity of the design si why it remains a popular 4x4 vehicle. But power nothing. Non-existent roll over survival. No crash zones. Thin seats, very thin.


I have owned a Toyota from every generation starting with the early 80's. 83 Runner, 90 & 91 4runner (I4 and V6), '99 Tacoma and now a 2005 v8 Runner and honestly, this is the best built machine I have had.

 

[imdav2u]

Take it to another tire place,when they fix it,take the bill back to thew first shop and make them pay it for the shoddy work that they have done.I have been driving Toyotas since 1992.I purchased a Mustang GT Convertible for my wife in 95.2000 miles past the warranty,the transmission went out.In 2000,I purchased a Trans Am Convertible for my wife,Pontiac wouldn't take care of the problems.In 2004,I was going to trade in my 2001 Sequoia and get a new one, my wifes uncle,a Ford dealer,talked me into buying an Expidtion.After almost 5 months of 13 miles per gallon and enough problems,Ford gave me my money back and I purchased another Sequoia.I now drive a 2008 SE 4wd.I love the truck,no issues.I have never had the tire problems that you are having on any vehicle that I have owned,no matter who the manufacurer was,and I have owned over 75 cars and trucks.Don't give up,try another shoo and good luck.

 

[DC runner]

That hurt my eyes. Spaces are our friends.

 

[kai920]

Sorry, I was on a rant. I haven't owned many vehicles in my time, a few, but this is my third Toyota, and don't get me wrong.....I love my T4R. My wife loves her Camry too!

The wheel vibe issue is just driving me nuts. I am not giving up yet. The first 8000 miles on these Michelins were fine.

This is the sequence of recent changes.

-Lift front end(daystar 1")
-Alignment
-All 4 rotors turned on vehicle
-Rotate and balance
-Lift rear end(Daystar(1.5)

All lift work was done by me. All ball joints were untouched. Everything re-torqued.

The vibration issue was noticed first either after the rotation, or after the rear end lift. Not sure exactly.

Other than tires/wheels not sure what else it could be. The last balance was not a Road Force, but a load runout. Whatever that means, not sure of the difference. I guess I am going to try another shop and a road force balance. Toyota wants $79.99 for a Road Force.

Could a rotor, since turned on the vehicle be a balance issue? If they were warped and then turned I cold see how one or more might actually have a balance issue.

BTW, I haven't paid Discount a penny other than when the tires were first purchased. Lifetime balance(attmepts?) and rotations.

Any suggestions are welcome! I really do love the car and wouldn't know what I would trade it in for, althought the wife wants a Rubicon. I suggested a OW lift and a rear locker on the T4R instead.

As far as the wife's Camry, it has a VERY minimal # of miles left on the warranty. Guess I am gonna have to get pushy with the service managers and tell them to find the issue with the tranny. It shifts very funny and kind of rumbles into overdrive. The last thing they did was the computer programming.

Thanks!

 

[jimithing]

I agree that you need to make sure the discount tire you're using has the Haweka.

4Runners.org - Balancing Your Tires: Haweka Adapter

 

[kai920]

Yes they used that adapter. I watched them.

 

[jimithing]

And as far as your brakes, I can only assume that maybe the rotors have been turned too many times. They're removing metal when they turn them and that causes them to warp faster in the future, especially in hotter summer months. I'd suggest getting some decent aftermarket rotors when yours needs to be done again.

 

[toyoboy1820]

I took mine to discount and they couldn't balance mine either. I had the same vibration issues. When i got my new tires i had schwab mount and balance them and there perfect, no more vibration. I would go elsewhere to get it redone.

 

[kai920]

And as far as your brakes, I can only assume that maybe the rotors have been turned too many times. They're removing metal when they turn them and that causes them to warp faster in the future, especially in hotter summer months. I'd suggest getting some decent aftermarket rotors when yours needs to be done again.

I agree next time I will upgrade to new rotors rather than turning them again. Even though they have plenty of life left.

I think the likeliehood of them warping is less than the likely hood of uneven deposits causing the wobbling/vibration effect when breaking. Either way, it is still currently resolved with the recent work done.

I am wondering if this casued such an unbalance on the rotors that this is what is causing the new vibration.

 

[kai920]

I took mine to discount and they couldn't balance mine either. I had the same vibration issues. When i got my new tires i had schwab mount and balance them and there perfect, no more vibration. I would go elsewhere to get it redone.

No Schwab here, guess I can try Big O Tire!

 

[kai920]

Is a Daystar 1" lift up front enough to cause an issue with the drive shaft angle?

 

[SCRunner12]

Then again, they were much simpler back then. Think about how complex a 83 4runner was. It wasn't. It was a carb'ed 4cylinder with the most basic of components. It rode like hell on the freeway and was horrible in turns. It was an awesome vehicle for its time, and the simplicity of the design si why it remains a popular 4x4 vehicle. But power nothing. Non-existent roll over survival. No crash zones. Thin seats, very thin.


I have owned a Toyota from every generation starting with the early 80's. 83 Runner, 90 & 91 4runner (I4 and V6), '99 Tacoma and now a 2005 v8 Runner and honestly, this is the best built machine I have had.

They made an 83 4runner? Do you mean a 84? :jk:

 

[DC runner]

Der. Thanks. 83, 84.. same difference.

Back when SR5 meant something. I am a little irritated that Toyota decided to reduce that badge to crap. Not to say they are bad vehicles, but SR5 was originally a badge denoting nice goodies. Now, after that moniker built a loyal following, they throw it on everything. I am convinced the day will come when I see a SR5 Prius rolling.

 

[SCRunner12]

Der. Thanks. 83, 84.. same difference.

Back when SR5 meant something. I am a little irritated that Toyota decided to reduce that badge to crap. Not to say they are bad vehicles, but SR5 was originally a badge denoting nice goodies. Now, after that moniker built a loyal following, they throw it on everything. I am convinced the day will come when I see a SR5 Prius rolling.

Haha, yeah I was just messing with you. I was hoping for the slight chance you had a Trekker. That would have been sweet.

I know what you mean about the SR5. They turned them into the bottom level 4runner after the 3rd gens. The 3rd gens still had a base model.

 

[empty403]

I agree next time I will upgrade to new rotors rather than turning them again. Even though they have plenty of life left.

I think the likeliehood of them warping is less than the likely hood of uneven deposits causing the wobbling/vibration effect when breaking. Either way, it is still currently resolved with the recent work done.

I am wondering if this casued such an unbalance on the rotors that this is what is causing the new vibration.

Check to make sure your brake pistons are not seized/going bad.

 

[chucknorris]

Check to make sure your brake pistons are not seized/going bad.

^^^what he said

also, have the shop check for rotor runout.

If the caliper has seized pistons, a re-build (if pistons can be dis-lodged) will work.

In the case of out of spec rotor runout, rotors need to be replaced by a mechanic who knows how to eliminate the problem.

If the shop has no idea what rotor runout is, print the below pdf and tell them they are idiots and to follow it step by step.....or go elsewhere....

http://www.carquest.com/common/downloads/partsTechBrakeCQB 03-02.pdf


What is rotor runout
Rotor Runout Check List

Hope this helps.

 

[Barry694]

Tire Balancing Issues, etc

Take your vehicle to a Michelin dealership and have them balance the tires. I have had Michelin LTX on a previous 4RUNNER and LTX MS2's on present 4RUNNER. No balance problem through 80 mph. Maybe the word Discount really means something. Seriously though, I just purchased new Michelin's for my 4 RUNNER and local michelin dealer was the same price as Discount Tires. No mounting/balancing charges. Free rotations every 5000 miles and Free flat tire changing for first 3 years.

 

[kai920]

Thanks for the replies.

Runout was checked and an on car lathe was used, which should automatically compensate for run out. I remember the shop telling me run out was bad. No vibe when braking. Only while driving. I suppose they could have screwed it up so bad and caused a lateral run out so bad that I feel it under normal driving without braking.

They also said calipers and pistons were fine. I am aware of the common issue and asked.

I am going to try a new shop and see if they can balance the tires any better. Then go from there.

 

[Hulley]

Food for thought. I am not an engineer but the following made sense with what little knowledge I have on tire construction.
I work for BMW, I have seen S.I. bulletins stating NOT to rotate tires. The reason for this is, 1. Radial tires wear into a pattern, that pattern is different for each corner of the vehicle. 2. Not many people rotate tires on a consistant basis. Different tires wear into their pattern quicker than others.

If you could rotate your tires often you could probably get away with it and be fine but if the tire has developed a pattern than its probably too late.
I've spoken to Michelin and Bridgstone reps who echoed the same sentiment. Thats actually why most BMW's have offset tires.

I dont know how this would affect a LT tire but I'd imagine its the same concept.
Again, I'm not saying that was the problem, I'm no expert. I've read this and questioned "Experts" and they said the same. But a big part of me says, ifs that is true then why do tire shops offer R&B? Why not just a balance?
IDK, I hope you get it squared away, I love my T4R.