Hello my name is Greg and own a automotive service facility and recently installed a spacer lift kit on a 04 4runner sport with xreas suspension that someone before had put those cheap coil spring lift twist things because of oversized tire and well you guessed my tech undid the line at the shock and lost fluid. Customer then called with a concern of bouncing frt end, upon further investigation discovered that's a no no. So now I'm going to take care of it by replacing the frt shocks. My question is can the front shocks just be replaced and is their any other procedure to installing the shocks? I see how the system works but I'm curious if by removing lines from shock instead of at service point if their is air in system or just front shocks and that's it. Thanks in advance for your help. I just want to get customer taken care of make them happy.
Xreas question
- Thread starter Sprblkxx
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ARK_SWAMP_RIDER
New member
When the shocks lose fluid, there's no way of adding more. The lost fluid is the cause of the bouncy ride. The shocks are linked in an X pattern, driver front to pass rear, pass front to driver rear. If fluid was lost, the shocks will have to be replaced in pairs (the linked shocks). Unfortunately it sounds like all four shocks will need to be replaced.
As far as installing the shocks, that's a gray area. Not many do this, so not a lot of info on it. If you end up replacing the XREAS, you'll want all 4 wheels in the air, shocks fully extended, and disconnect at the proper locations. There's a suspension thread stickied at the top of this section. In that thread there's more info on the XREAS system, and also a link that has even more info (and shows the disconnect points).
As far as installing the shocks, that's a gray area. Not many do this, so not a lot of info on it. If you end up replacing the XREAS, you'll want all 4 wheels in the air, shocks fully extended, and disconnect at the proper locations. There's a suspension thread stickied at the top of this section. In that thread there's more info on the XREAS system, and also a link that has even more info (and shows the disconnect points).
The rear is not as bouncy as the front, the frt is super bouncy. So if I replace the just the fronts their a chance system could still be bouncy? Also when the spacer kit was installed the vehicle was on a lift with all 4 wheels suspended in the air. And lost about 3 oz of fluid approx.
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ARK_SWAMP_RIDER
New member
All 4 wheels must be in the air, and you must disconnect at the right spots. Even with the wheels in the air, if it's not disconnected in the right spot fluid will be lost.
XREAS works by using connected shocks as outlined above. When cornering, fluid is transferred from one end of the system to the other for improved performance. Even if the front is the only thing that's bouncy, the rear is affected as well.
I'll be honest with you, I know know the exact details of the system. I'm not sure if the shocks are loaded with the fluid or if it's held in the canisters. I'm thinking if it's not held in the shocks but in the canister, replacing the shocks won't add fluid, and you'll still end up with a poor ride.
I think that there's a definite chance you could replace the shocks and still not have the issue resolved. This is a tricky situation, it's very hard to know what the proper way to go is.
If a shop messed my XREAS up, I'd expect it replaced with the same. However, in my opinion there are some aftermarket options out there that will perform really well, even better than the stock XREAS. A common choice for people here is to use Bilstien 5100's and springs off of a FJ Cruiser. This is an awesome setup, smoother than stock, and would be much cheaper. Again, it all depends on how the owner feels about this. IMO you could offer to swap to something like the above setup, then if the customer isn't happy it could be replaced with XREAS. Normally I'd say this is cheating the customer, but I honestly feel like they'd be coming out better. The Bilsteins will come with a lifetime warranty, XREAS replacements will not. That'd be a big selling point.
XREAS works by using connected shocks as outlined above. When cornering, fluid is transferred from one end of the system to the other for improved performance. Even if the front is the only thing that's bouncy, the rear is affected as well.
I'll be honest with you, I know know the exact details of the system. I'm not sure if the shocks are loaded with the fluid or if it's held in the canisters. I'm thinking if it's not held in the shocks but in the canister, replacing the shocks won't add fluid, and you'll still end up with a poor ride.
I think that there's a definite chance you could replace the shocks and still not have the issue resolved. This is a tricky situation, it's very hard to know what the proper way to go is.
If a shop messed my XREAS up, I'd expect it replaced with the same. However, in my opinion there are some aftermarket options out there that will perform really well, even better than the stock XREAS. A common choice for people here is to use Bilstien 5100's and springs off of a FJ Cruiser. This is an awesome setup, smoother than stock, and would be much cheaper. Again, it all depends on how the owner feels about this. IMO you could offer to swap to something like the above setup, then if the customer isn't happy it could be replaced with XREAS. Normally I'd say this is cheating the customer, but I honestly feel like they'd be coming out better. The Bilsteins will come with a lifetime warranty, XREAS replacements will not. That'd be a big selling point.
Well I'm going to fix it right and have never mislead a customer and won't start know. It sucks but happens. I'm just trying to figure out what to do. So if the system leaked from like a line between the service union and shock and you took it a dealer they would replace whole system? That's crazy.
I'm going to investigate this further and intregate some connections and find out how fluid gets into system. I called my local dealer where I purchase parts and at first the said they could fill and bleed system, then I said ok I'd like to schedule it to be donoe, then they told me it can't be done. So Monday I'm getting some answers.
I'm going to investigate this further and intregate some connections and find out how fluid gets into system. I called my local dealer where I purchase parts and at first the said they could fill and bleed system, then I said ok I'd like to schedule it to be donoe, then they told me it can't be done. So Monday I'm getting some answers.
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BlackWorksInc
New member
Interestingly enough, I don't see any information pertaining to the XREAS but the 5th gen's KDSS (same thing, different name and color) has a "refilling/repressuring" kit that I stumbled upon organizing out tool room at the dealership. No one has ever used it or really knows how to use it... but maybe Toyota actually has a process for it...
Anyways, non sequiter aside. The XREAS shocks must be replaced in cross linked pairs, theoretically you could disconnect the system at the junction points and replace individual components, due to the valves in the junction lines. But Toyota specifies that the system be replaced in cross-linked shocks with a new central dampner. If your technician undid the line at the one of the banjo bolts, then the system has been comprimised and air has been let into the front shot and central dampner, there is no bleeding procedure for this.
I would sit down with the customer and talk about options at this point. Maybe try to rectify the situation by discounting replacement of all 4 shocks and removing the XREAS. Otherwise if they insist on replacing the XREAS, it could end up being just as expensive, since the parts will only be availible from the Dealer and I vaugely remember hearing a 1600 price quote on the components alone.
Post Note-
The situation sucks and I applaud your willingness to do the right thing. Good customer service and relations really helps in these situations. I wish the best of luck to you.
Anyways, non sequiter aside. The XREAS shocks must be replaced in cross linked pairs, theoretically you could disconnect the system at the junction points and replace individual components, due to the valves in the junction lines. But Toyota specifies that the system be replaced in cross-linked shocks with a new central dampner. If your technician undid the line at the one of the banjo bolts, then the system has been comprimised and air has been let into the front shot and central dampner, there is no bleeding procedure for this.
I would sit down with the customer and talk about options at this point. Maybe try to rectify the situation by discounting replacement of all 4 shocks and removing the XREAS. Otherwise if they insist on replacing the XREAS, it could end up being just as expensive, since the parts will only be availible from the Dealer and I vaugely remember hearing a 1600 price quote on the components alone.
Post Note-
The situation sucks and I applaud your willingness to do the right thing. Good customer service and relations really helps in these situations. I wish the best of luck to you.
ARK_SWAMP_RIDER
New member
That's the first I've ever heard mention of a refilling/repressuring kit. I wonder if that's something Toyota changed based on the issues with the 4th gen XREAS.
In no way was I suggesting that you mislead your customer. As BlackWorksInc said, it's great that you're willing to fix this right. I was only suggesting that you may want to look into aftermarket options, primarily because it would last longer and ride better than the factory system.
If you are without a doubt going to replace it with the stock XREAS, I suggest consulting a dealer for the proper info. From what I know, you'll end up at close to a $2000 ticket to replace the whole system.
In no way was I suggesting that you mislead your customer. As BlackWorksInc said, it's great that you're willing to fix this right. I was only suggesting that you may want to look into aftermarket options, primarily because it would last longer and ride better than the factory system.
If you are without a doubt going to replace it with the stock XREAS, I suggest consulting a dealer for the proper info. From what I know, you'll end up at close to a $2000 ticket to replace the whole system.
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Well thanks guys for your help, I'm out but will return. Black works Inc are your a tech at a Toyota dealership? And their is a post somewhere on here about someone who put a lift kit and did the same thing and bought a set of used set of shocks from someone and I wonder what became of that. I hope I'm not the only that has done this. But I'm becoming a expert at this system.
MICA4R
New member
If you get away with the customer accepting a set of 4 shocks all around you are lucky.
He may ask for a whole new XREAS. That will be $$$.
Good luck please let us know how it resolved!
Sprblkxx, its awesome to see a shop owner taking care of a customer like you are doing. Where's your shop? If you're anywhere near me, I'll gladly bring you my vehicles.
It's a shame your customer didn't know a little more about the work he was having done. I had spacers installed on my 08 with XREAS. I probably told the shop owner a half dozen times that the lines absolutely couldn't be disconnected.
Like others have mentioned, I'd definitely throw out the possibility of bilstiens. I'd gladly swap out my XREAS for them. If your customer isn't familiar with this site, let him know about it. He can research them himself as well as see pics of them installed. He'll probably like the fact that with bilstiens he can lift his runner more than just 3" with spacers. That along with the warranty and the great reviews on here have me sold.
Good luck, let us know how it turns out.
It's a shame your customer didn't know a little more about the work he was having done. I had spacers installed on my 08 with XREAS. I probably told the shop owner a half dozen times that the lines absolutely couldn't be disconnected.
Like others have mentioned, I'd definitely throw out the possibility of bilstiens. I'd gladly swap out my XREAS for them. If your customer isn't familiar with this site, let him know about it. He can research them himself as well as see pics of them installed. He'll probably like the fact that with bilstiens he can lift his runner more than just 3" with spacers. That along with the warranty and the great reviews on here have me sold.
Good luck, let us know how it turns out.
ARK_SWAMP_RIDER
New member
Good deal, I think that'll work out best for both parties. If you get feedback from the customer, please post a follow up as I'm curious to hear impressions.
Desert Fox
New member
Where are you located?
I like giving my money to a shop that stands behind their work.
Please post the name of your shop and location.
Desert Fox
New member
I am going to keep your information. I am in Colorado but if I ever need anything major like a engine rebuild, I will look you up. (as long as I can get the vehicle there)
I have been driving for 40 years and I do not know a auto repair business that will stand behind their work like you are demonstrating.
Thank you for your ethics
I have been driving for 40 years and I do not know a auto repair business that will stand behind their work like you are demonstrating.
Thank you for your ethics
