Yet another KDSS lean thread...

[timelapse]

Let me start by mentioning that I have spent the last 6 months reading every thread I could find about KDSS and the common lean so many of us experience in the Toyota and Lexus community. Now that I fully understand the issue and have generally learned to simply overlook it on a daily basis, I'm finally in a position to try and correct it a bit more permanently with a trim spacer. This is where I'm hoping to get some guidance from other users who have utilized top plate spacers on the passenger side.

I personally suffer from a 1" passenger side KDSS lean on a '14 TEP. The classic, common issue that is just slightly out of Toyota lean tolerance spec.

After upgrading to 285/70/17 KO2s I get some body mount rubbing on my passenger front when the lean acts up badly. I'm running 5100s all around (@ 2.5" up front) with stock springs and Daystar spacers in the rear. Truck sits with a great stance and is level front to back which I prefer.

With the 285s and new -10 offset wheels (4.3" BS) my alignment tech cannot get my caster with stock UCA's back to the original 2.4 degrees I was running previously. With my downgraded 1.8 degree caster, I now get the body mount rub only on the KDSS lean affected side.

I have ordered a set of SPC UCAs so I can get my caster to 4 degrees and solve the body mount issue. While installing these control arms, I would also like to tweak my suspension to compensate a little for the lean.

Can I simply use Toytec Part #TP14 top plate spacer placed on the passenger front side? I do not have coil-overs, so it's unclear if this will work with the strut assembly using factory upper mount and spring when I added the 5100s. Is this a top mount install or does it require reassembling the strut to install? This is my preferred solution because it's the least expensive. I know most people have used the OME trim packer, but that isn't compatible from my research.

Alternatively, I could spend more money and buy the Toytec adj coilovers and install them on my existing 5100s up front. This way I could adjust the height with more precision on the passengers front side. My research shows that this isn't the best option because the spring rate ends up being different from side to side due to the different coilover compression heights. Is this accurate? Furthermore, if I do this I would also need to add the matching 2" lift coils to my rear so I have the same type of spring on all 4 corners. I would guess retaining factory springs w/ Daystar spacers in the rear would result in poor handling and ride quality.

This was a mouthful. If you made it this far, thanks for the help.

 

[wfo9]

The 1/4" top spacer on the passenger side will help but it might not eliminate all of it. The one I resolved required that plus a 10mm OME trim spacer in the rear. After that it was perfectly level and stayed that way.

I would throw in the balancing a procedure at least once before you go this route as it does seem to help for a while... it usually comes back to some extent but maybe not quite as much trim is needed as before...

You can add the spacer or install coil overs without removing the UCA.. Doing them at the same time is fine... but not necessary. Only shared labor is taking the tire off...

Coil overs are obviously a better more flexible solution since they are adjustable... but quite a bit more $$s

 

[DesertFish]

https://youtu.be/xtURdW66WM4

Not sure if its worth it for such a minor lean, or even if it would correct such a minor lean. It could be worth a try, as its free :noidea:

 

[wfo9]

https://youtu.be/xtURdW66WM4

Not sure if its worth it for such a minor lean, or even if it would correct such a minor lean. It could be worth a try, as its free :noidea:

That is a 200 series LC.. slightly different procedure on the 5th gen, but similar. You have to remove that cover and be very careful to only unscrew the bolts the correct distance (outlined in a few threads here) The lean usually comes back to some extent though.

I've had a lot of people argue with me that KDSS cannot cause a lean and that it never happens on the 200s... Most claim the lean is just the suspension and unrelated to KDSS. Glad to see this video sort of validates it is a world wide problem with lifts and KDSS. Totally solvable.... but maybe it will help clarify for some folks who seem to deny KDSS is the root of the lean.

I'm not bashing KDSS BTW, It is a good system that has many benefits (I'm not a KDSS hater). It has been frustrating to deal with it at times and some of my old threads on the subject were related to frustration working on it.

 

[timelapse]

https://youtu.be/xtURdW66WM4

Not sure if its worth it for such a minor lean, or even if it would correct such a minor lean. It could be worth a try, as its free :noidea:

I have performed this already. I actually just did it again this morning. It results in 1/8" improvement which brings me closer within the Toyota margin of error, Regardless, the lean is annoying especially because it's now causing me to rub the body mount on the front passengers side.

 

[timelapse]

The 1/4" top spacer on the passenger side will help but it might not eliminate all of it. The one I resolved required that plus a 10mm OME trim spacer in the rear. After that it was perfectly level and stayed that way.

I would throw in the balancing a procedure at least once before you go this route as it does seem to help for a while... it usually comes back to some extent but maybe not quite as much trim is needed as before...

You can add the spacer or install coil overs without removing the UCA.. Doing them at the same time is fine... but not necessary. Only shared labor is taking the tire off...

Coil overs are obviously a better more flexible solution since they are adjustable... but quite a bit more $$s

Thank you for your input and experience. I have read many of your responses in other threads over the last year. =)

If I go with coilovers up front the cost is minimal, but it gets more pricey once I need to order new rear springs and account for all the labor (which is why I was trying to pair this with my UCA install as it also saves on alignment cost).

With coilovers I can adjust as needed, but only in the front. Your experience shows that the front lean is really the result of the rear being off. Interesting.

In my measurements, the front has 3/4-1" of lean to the right (slopes down on passenger side) up front and 1/2" lean in the rear. With less lean in the rear, it makes me think the front right passenger needs to be raised and this will also slightly counter in the rear. Is this sound logic?

Because I'm already using the Daystar spacers on top of my rear factory springs, I cannot easily add another OME rear 10mm spacer on top safely. I would probably need to order custom size spacers from Cornfed and if it doesn't work, I gotta pay labor to take it all apart again. Not a huge fan of messing with the KDSS piston and sway bar during suspension work, but the shop I work with has lots of experience with KDSS (just not the lean) and did a great job on my original install.

 

[alphabeast]

I also have the KDSS lean on the passenger side (3/4"-7/8") lower. Had it before my lift and after my lift. I also have a slight rub on the body mount on the passenger side as well. I bought the OME trim spacer, and will be doing a BMC, which is then the perfect excuse to move up to 34" tires . With the spacer installed, I will still be about a 1/2" off, which in my mind is more then acceptable. You can drive yourself crazy trying to get these trucks perfectly level (side-to-side)...

 

[timelapse]

I also have the KDSS lean on the passenger side (3/4"-7/8") lower. Had it before my lift and after my lift. I also have a slight rub on the body mount on the passenger side as well. I bought the OME trim spacer, and will be doing a BMC, which is then the perfect excuse to move up to 34" tires . With the spacer installed, I will still be about a 1/2" off, which in my mind is more then acceptable. You can drive yourself crazy trying to get these trucks perfectly level (side-to-side)...

Totally agree. It will never be perfect, but eliminating even 1/2" of lean would be huge. My research shows that the OME trim spacer doesn't work with other lifts besides OME (source: Toytec product page for the OME spacer). This is why I was looking at the Toytec version. Have you installed your spacer yet?

 

[jbstrd]

FWIW, I had a 3/4" KDSS lean with my Icon coilovers in the front and OME springs on the rear. I adjusted the front lean out with the coilovers and added one 10mm OME trim spacer to the rear passenger coil spring. It took my lean away enough that I can't tell by simply looking at it.

If adjustable coilovers are in your budget, I would recommend them. The ability to adjust the front to account for sagging, added weight, etc. makes them worth while. For the rear, you can keep your 5100's and add whatever lift coils suit your needs. Then, throw an OME trim spacer on the passenger rear and call it a day.

 

[jbstrd]

Totally agree. It will never be perfect, but eliminating even 1/2" of lean would be huge. My research shows that the OME trim spacer doesn't work with other lifts besides OME (source: Toytec product page for the OME spacer). This is why I was looking at the Toytec version. Have you installed your spacer yet?

Are you referring to the front or rear OME trim spacer? The rear will work with any coil spring.

 

[timelapse]

FWIW, I had a 3/4" KDSS lean with my Icon coilovers in the front and OME springs on the rear. I adjusted the front lean out with the coilovers and added one 10mm OME trim spacer to the rear passenger coil spring. It took my lean away enough that I can't tell by simply looking at it.

If adjustable coilovers are in your budget, I would recommend them. The ability to adjust the front to account for sagging, added weight, etc. makes them worth while. For the rear, you can keep your 5100's and add whatever lift coils suit your needs. Then, throw an OME trim spacer on the passenger rear and call it a day.

This does sound optimal. How long has this set-up been working for you? I was slightly concerned that if I perfectly counter the KDSS lean, it might just return in the future and throw everything off exponentially.

For the front coilovers, do you recall if you had to raise it up a full 3/4" of an inch higher than the drivers side or was there a balance point somewhere in between like 1/2"?

 

[timelapse]

Are you referring to the front or rear OME trim spacer? The rear will work with any coil spring.

I had seen the warning on this 5mm front spacer from OME on Toytec:
OME Trim Packer

"Trim packers are used to lift the vehicle up by 5mm in the front to compensate for drivers side lean.
* NOTE- Old Man Emu front Trim Packers ONLY work with Old Man Emu front shocks. Please use Part # TP14 for all other shock applications."

 

[alphabeast]

This does sound optimal. How long has this set-up been working for you? I was slightly concerned that if I perfectly counter the KDSS lean, it might just return in the future and throw everything off exponentially.

For the front coilovers, do you recall if you had to raise it up a full 3/4" of an inch higher than the drivers side or was there a balance point somewhere in between like 1/2"?

My front was off roughly 1/2" (passenger side lower) before my lift and I kept it roughly the same after. I did some adjustments to both coilovers (i dont remember how much), but as it sits, the passenger side is 1/2" lower then the driver side. Looking at the front of the trunk, I can't even tell.

I just did a 5,000+ mile road trip out the Glacier NP and back (I live in Ohio) - rides great. I didnt have a chance to do much offroading - I am saving that for my next trip.

 

[jbstrd]

This does sound optimal. How long has this set-up been working for you? I was slightly concerned that if I perfectly counter the KDSS lean, it might just return in the future and throw everything off exponentially.

For the front coilovers, do you recall if you had to raise it up a full 3/4" of an inch higher than the drivers side or was there a balance point somewhere in between like 1/2"?

I have had the rear trim spacer on for a couple years now and the lean has not returned. I don't recall how much front adjustment was required since it was quite awhile ago, sorry.

I am shocked none of the major lift manufacturers have come out with a drop spacer for the fixed KDSS frame attachment. I feel this is what causes the lean in KDSS equipped rigs. Who am I though?

I had seen the warning on this 5mm front spacer from OME on Toytec:
OME Trim Packer

"Trim packers are used to lift the vehicle up by 5mm in the front to compensate for drivers side lean.
* NOTE- Old Man Emu front Trim Packers ONLY work with Old Man Emu front shocks. Please use Part # TP14 for all other shock applications."

Yea, this is referring to the fronts, which I am not familiar with since I have adjustable coilovers. I can tell you the rears will work with any coils but I wouldn't run them on top of your current spacer.

 

[Matters]

Let me start by mentioning that I have spent the last 6 months reading every thread I could find about KDSS and the common lean so many of us experience in the Toyota and Lexus community. Now that I fully understand the issue and have generally learned to simply overlook it on a daily basis, I'm finally in a position to try and correct it a bit more permanently with a trim spacer. This is where I'm hoping to get some guidance from other users who have utilized top plate spacers on the passenger side.

I personally suffer from a 1" passenger side KDSS lean on a '14 TEP. The classic, common issue that is just slightly out of Toyota lean tolerance spec.

After upgrading to 285/70/17 KO2s I get some body mount rubbing on my passenger front when the lean acts up badly. I'm running 5100s all around (@ 2.5" up front) with stock springs and Daystar spacers in the rear. Truck sits with a great stance and is level front to back which I prefer.

With the 285s and new -10 offset wheels (4.3" BS) my alignment tech cannot get my caster with stock UCA's back to the original 2.4 degrees I was running previously. With my downgraded 1.8 degree caster, I now get the body mount rub only on the KDSS lean affected side.

I have ordered a set of SPC UCAs so I can get my caster to 4 degrees and solve the body mount issue. While installing these control arms, I would also like to tweak my suspension to compensate a little for the lean.

Can I simply use Toytec Part #TP14 top plate spacer placed on the passenger front side? I do not have coil-overs, so it's unclear if this will work with the strut assembly using factory upper mount and spring when I added the 5100s. Is this a top mount install or does it require reassembling the strut to install? This is my preferred solution because it's the least expensive. I know most people have used the OME trim packer, but that isn't compatible from my research.

Alternatively, I could spend more money and buy the Toytec adj coilovers and install them on my existing 5100s up front. This way I could adjust the height with more precision on the passengers front side. My research shows that this isn't the best option because the spring rate ends up being different from side to side due to the different coilover compression heights. Is this accurate? Furthermore, if I do this I would also need to add the matching 2" lift coils to my rear so I have the same type of spring on all 4 corners. I would guess retaining factory springs w/ Daystar spacers in the rear would result in poor handling and ride quality.

This was a mouthful. If you made it this far, thanks for the help.

If you can swing it financially I would suggest the upgrade to coilovers and new springs in the rear. I would adjust the passenger side front for a bit more height and add an OME 10mm spacer in the rear. This is basically what I did and no longer have any lean issues. You can read more about my lean solutions in this thread. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/241700-what-setting-everyone-using-6112-setup.html.

 

[timelapse]

I ended up with the Toytec Ultimate kit running 5100s again. I also made use of that rear OME trim spacer. Got everything leveled out nicely, but we'll see if the lean ever returns. Hopefully not.

How long do 650# coils take to settle and do they loose much height? I don't have any extra weight up front, so the height set from Toyec put me at nearly a 4" lift based on my measurements. I lowered the coilovers 1/2" (equaling roughly 1" of lowering height to the vehicle) to get my lift sitting just under 3". Less so on the passengers side to equal out the lean. Love the new stance and ride quality, but if the springs settle and loose height it will become too low for my taste and usage requirements. I wonder if I need to cheat up a little higher to anticipate this.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[SATSTRAIL]

I ended up with the Toytec Ultimate kit running 5100s again. I also made use of that rear OME trim spacer. Got everything leveled out nicely, but we'll see if the lean ever returns. Hopefully not.

How long do 650# coils take to settle and do they loose much height? I don't have any extra weight up front, so the height set from Toyec put me at nearly a 4" lift based on my measurements. I lowered the coilovers 1/2" (equaling roughly 1" of lowering height to the vehicle) to get my lift sitting just under 3". Less so on the passengers side to equal out the lean. Love the new stance and ride quality, but if the springs settle and loose height it will become too low for my taste and usage requirements. I wonder if I need to cheat up a little higher to anticipate this.

Thanks for all the help!

Or you could just adjust it down the road if and when it's needed...not a huge project.

 

[timelapse]

Or you could just adjust it down the road if and when it's needed...not a huge project.

For sure. I made one last adjustment up a bit and got it aligned. All set for now.

 

[6172crew]

I thought I read a thread that dobbinson found the front KDSS springs to be different rates from left to right, which is why they sell a KDSS replacement spring.

 

[timelapse]

I thought I read a thread that dobbinson found the front KDSS springs to be different rates from left to right, which is why they sell a KDSS replacement spring.

Probably so. It's definitely a known issue that KDSS vehicles lean differently. Now that my rig was set to be perfectly level, it is 1/4" lower on the drivers side after driving around and hitting some speed bumps, etc a 100+ miles later to help settle things. From my research, subtle variation is guaranteed with KDSS. It will never stay 100% level all the time, however, anything more than 1/2" starts to become noticeable. Hard to believe Toyota thinks up to 7/8" difference is acceptable. I would argue 1/2" would be the highest variation before it becomes super noticeable IMHO.