Yet Another Tire Chain Thread

[fish]

Hi kids :hello:,

Haven't been around in awhile, but I've been busy (with work and photography). Now it's time to crawl out from under my rock and ask a question that has been asked oh so many times before, but I'll ask it slightly differently so as to confuse the masses

We're going to take my 04 v8 4Runner into the snow this weekend for the first time. Here in CA, the law is that you have to carry chains even if you don't need to use them.

Anyway...

I've searched here, on yota, and on the web in general and it seems everybody has a different answer when it comes to chains for 4WD vehicles.

The manual says chains on rear wheels only (nobody seems to know why). Vulcantire, who sells z-chains, recommends them on all four wheels. Others say front wheels only (although, I'm inclined to disagree with them, as that makes no sense at all, since the T4R is rear-wheel biased and who the hell wants the rear coming around on them? I'd rather understeer than oversteer.)

So where's that question, you ask?

Right here: (preface: i see lots of you kids running through the snow without chains...awesome!). Do I buy a pair of cheapy chains just to get by the CHP, relying on the extraordinary capabilities of my 4Runner? Or do I buy two pairs of high-buck z-chains and try to climb icy trees?

Let's hear it! (your opinions, of course...with lots of pics, if you have them).

:behead:

 

[ToyotaDoodz]

I'd do a set of 4 Z's for durability. If only 2 for cost, put them on the back but I'd do 4. Front only makes no sense to me either unless it's a front wheel drive car.

Chains are going to limit you to about 30 mph.

I read all those threads to and understand your dilemma.

 

[dcampen]

I'd do a set of 4 Z's for durability.

Have you run chains or cables on your front wheels? The consensus opinion had been that there is not enough clearance of the steering components in the front and that you risk doing serious damage if you run chains or cables in the front.

 

[T?@\7]

depending on conditions, better safe than sorry.

 

[4RNR4BB]

I drove through Mammoth during this past storm. I stopped in Bishop and bought chains for my 2wd 4R. The guy at Napa gave me the wrong size so I couldn't use them. I made it from Bishop to Topaz Lake without any trouble. Highway 395 was covered with at least 2 inches of snow and ice and we made it cruising along at 25-30 mph. What kind of tires are you using? That would help decide between cheap chains to make the CHP happy and real good chains that you might actually use.

Matt

 

[Luxury]

I drove through Mammoth during this past storm. I stopped in Bishop and bought chains for my 2wd 4R. The guy at Napa gave me the wrong size so I couldn't use them. I made it from Bishop to Topaz Lake without any trouble. Highway 395 was covered with at least 2 inches of snow and ice and we made it cruising along at 25-30 mph. What kind of tires are you using? That would help decide between cheap chains to make the CHP happy and real good chains that you might actually use.

Matt

Last weekend or the weekend before? I was there the weekend before and it was a freakin nightmare. Didn't take my 2wd 4runner, thank god. We were slidding some even with 4wd and chains on the rear wheels of my parents Explorer. There were cars stranded on the side of the road all over the place. I'd say, get the best damn chains you can, just in case. I helped dig-out a ton of SUVs stranded in our parking lot and the 4WD with chains were so much better. Some of the people with cheap chains had them break and fall off, even just in the parking lot. Which was a total PITA because the truck would then be stuck right where we need the plow to go. Everyone was so happy with the people with chains and 4wd, it made it so much easier. My brother's 2WD F150 with chains was much more of a pain than the Explorer. However, he did alright on the snowy/icy road. My dad and I did most of the digging/pushing, and both of us will always have 4WD and the best chains from now on.

"Or do I buy two pairs of high-buck z-chains and try to climb icy trees?" Are those generally accepted as the best or at least one of the best chains? Has anyone put chains on upsized tires without a lift?

 

[ToyotaDoodz]

Also, as to the cheap or good quality question. . . . Do you want something cheap around your tires/wheels? Personally, that's not the place where I want something coming apart. Sure it's a lot of $$ but it's also an investment in safety. Again, it's how much are you going to use them and how far, etc.

 

[4RNR4BB]

Last weekend or the weekend before? I was there the weekend before and it was a freakin nightmare.

Weekend before, I drove throught on January 2nd in the evening. Probably around 7 o'clock.

What kind of tires fo you have? I have Michelin mud/snow tires and they were fine.

Matt

 

[rivertrek]

I know that Pep Boys Automotive will let you return the chains you bought from them for a full refund. As long as you didn't use them. That's pretty cool.

 

[fish]

What kind of tires are you using? That would help decide between cheap chains to make the CHP happy and real good chains that you might actually use.

Matt

I'm running relatively low-mileage Revos (thanks to all the pushers here) :arrow:

 

[skategoat]

I'm going to get me a set of these:

http://www.flextrax.com/

Might never need them but I will keep a set of four in the back in the 4Runner from now on. I found out about them from a friend and I would consider them because there is less chance of damage to your vehicle.

 

[Northof49]

Unless you're planning on some VERY serious snow and ice 4wheeling (read, using your truck as a snowmobile), I really don't think you'll need to worry a whole lot about chains.

In 4wd a 4th gen will push snow up to the damn bumper on 1/2 bald OEM Dunlops. For safe winter driving, a good set of winter tires is a much better/safer way to go than crappy tires + chains. Sure it may cost you more money up front, but if those chains go beserk and take out even one of your alloy's, you'll save in the end. Also, how much fun will it be to take them off on the side of a winter road everytime you need to go over 25 mph?

As for having to carry chains by law, I'd get the cheapest POS snowblower chains and throw 1 in the back just so they can't say you don't have them Seriously, 1/2 hour from my house is Canada's highest paved highway pass and I drove over it for a year with the OEM tires with nary a problem.....not recommended, but if THAT worked, imagine how good some real winters would be! A 4rth gen T4R with 4 new Blizzaks would go through snow deep enough you'd need an intake snorkle....

Chains just seem like a bandaid to the real solution: winter tires.

 

[Luxury]

I'm going to get me a set of these:

http://www.flextrax.com/

Might never need them but I will keep a set of four in the back in the 4Runner from now on. I found out about them from a friend and I would consider them because there is less chance of damage to your vehicle.

Those look cool. I wonder how easy they are to install/uninstall and how well they actually work. Interesting that they look like rubber.......which reminds me of Northof49's bandaid comment.

.......Chains just seem like a bandaid to the real solution: winter tires.

However, for us 2WD owners, it is either a bandaid for not having enough money for 4wd or being to stupid to not get it. The latter is true for me. :cursin:

 

[fish]

In 4wd a 4th gen will push snow up to the damn bumper on 1/2 bald OEM Dunlops.

Okay, my confidence is increasing

Chains just seem like a bandaid to the real solution: winter tires.

That's certainly true, however when you consider my truck will probably see snow once, maybe twice a year, snow tires don't make a lot of sense.

Thanks for the comments!

 

[Cliff s]

There is not enough room between the tires and the spindle to use chains
on the front of a T4R 4WD.

The requirement of chaining a 4wd is at the discretion of the local Police or Highway Patrol,
and it varies everywhere, seems like they kind of make the rules to suit themselves.

On major highways, the highway being closed is a far greater problem or being heldup
by a jack-knifed semi. These can last up to 18 hours, so be prepared. For some reason
in recent years the highways are closed rather than plowing and sanding them(it saves money).

Cliff s

 

[fish]

There is not enough room between the tires and the spindle to use chains
on the front of a T4R 4WD.

Does that include Z-chains (cables)? I ended up buying a pair of Super Z-chains as insurance. The price difference between regular PITA chains and Z-chains wasn't great enough to make much of a difference. Plus, if I really need to use them, they'll be much easier to install. I practiced in the driveway yesterday, and it took about 5 mins/wheel for the first time.

The requirement of chaining a 4wd is at the discretion of the local Police or Highway Patrol,
and it varies everywhere, seems like they kind of make the rules to suit themselves.

I'm sure they dislike pulling people out of ditches. In California, I'm not sure if it's a law or not (i think so), but you have to carry chains in the Sierras in the winter, regardless of vehicle type.

On major highways, the highway being closed is a far greater problem or being heldup
by a jack-knifed semi. These can last up to 18 hours, so be prepared.

This is a point that can't be overstated and doesn't just apply to the winter. It's ALWAYS a good idea to keep non-perishable snacks, water, and blankets in the truck whenever you go on a trip. Even in the summer...maybe especially in the summer. I always keep a 1ga bottle of water in the back (rotated every few months) just_in_case.

Thanks for the info.




In other news, I bought a Thule Evolution 1600 this afternoon...and it looks GREAT! But I guess that's the topic for a different thread.

 

[Luxury]

.... I practiced in the driveway yesterday, and it took about 5 mins/wheel for the first time......

5 minutes? Nice. Expect it to be a little more difficult on the mountain. Reasons: Snow, freezing fingers (remember to have good gloves handy), frustration (long drive and having to get out and do this), the cold makes the elastic band less pliable (maybe brand specific, but my brother had to pull while I put all my weight into them to stretch it enough). But it will help a lot that you practiced and don't need to read the directions or anything. Good luck.

In other news, I bought a Thule Evolution 1600 this afternoon...and it looks GREAT! But I guess that's the topic for a different thread.

Nice tease. I don't know Thule very well, so you got my curiousity going.....let's see some pics in a rack thread.

 

[GYoter]

In the last 15 years of driving to Tahoe i have NEVER been in a situation where they required chains on 4wd cars with snow tires. They have never checked to make sure i have had chains either. I know that there are some conditions that they 'say' you will need them, but usually the road gets closed or they hold traffic before that happens. If you are towing in the snow that is a different story. I personally would not bother with chains. Just my opinion.

 

[fish]

Epilogue

We had a great time playing in the snow last weekend. The weather was great...50's during the day and 30's at night. All of the "chains required" signs were turned sideways. I had to go out looking for unplowed roads and driveways to check out.

The snow at Donner summit was about 8' deep and the kids had a blast.

In the few areas where I found snow, slush, or ice to drive through, the 4Runner on Revos worked flawlessly. In fact, I pitched it sideways a couple of times and slammed on the brakes just to test out the system. It was actually difficult to get it to give me any sense that it was starting to get out-of-control.

I did manage to get the truck really dirty, tho.

And the Thule Evolution 1600 box worked great. With the box on top, and a fairly heavy throttle, I managed 18.9mpg overall. Sweet.

Thanks for looking and I can't wait for a storm to drive into.

 

[KyleKai]

z-579

I just ordered some SCC Z-579 chains from Vulcan Tire, $106 plus shipping. They're at http://www.vulcantire.com/chainz_c.htm . I don't ever plan to actually use the chains, they're there mostly to show the CHP when necessary, but the Z-579 chains are lightweight and relatively easy to stow. And they're supposedly easier to install then the SCC ZT741 model.

I was up in Mammoth during and right after their last huge storm, and my 2005 V8 4x4 with stock Dunlops never had any trouble, even when the snowplow decided to block me in with a snow berm.