You must watch this: Impeach obama now
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004Gunner
New member
Impeach Obama?! For what? For not doing what you think he should? :lmao:
I agree that a far more proactive approach to border control should be imlpemented and sustained, I just don't agree with Arizona's approach. They showed good initiative and I appreciate the fact that Arizona has single handedly kept the border control issue a hot debate. I would rather see physical barriers or high tech virtual borders that enable a quick response and actual enforcement. I don't want to see profiling and the requirement to display documentation upon command.
I didn't vote for Obama and don't necessarily support him, but he gets a lot of credit for improving on the horrible mess of a country that your fellow Texan G dubs left behind. Fox news intentionally stirs the nest and tries to develop a hive mind amongst conservatives. Do yourself a favor and stop watching it. Fox news is bad for your mind and bad for your health.
I agree that a far more proactive approach to border control should be imlpemented and sustained, I just don't agree with Arizona's approach. They showed good initiative and I appreciate the fact that Arizona has single handedly kept the border control issue a hot debate. I would rather see physical barriers or high tech virtual borders that enable a quick response and actual enforcement. I don't want to see profiling and the requirement to display documentation upon command.
I didn't vote for Obama and don't necessarily support him, but he gets a lot of credit for improving on the horrible mess of a country that your fellow Texan G dubs left behind. Fox news intentionally stirs the nest and tries to develop a hive mind amongst conservatives. Do yourself a favor and stop watching it. Fox news is bad for your mind and bad for your health.
Thai
Elite Member
Actually, i think that Obama is making a name for himself in a bad way...maybe even far worst than GWB ever did. He is shooting himself in the foot left and right!
As for news stations, CNN and the ridiculous MSNBC are equally bias...so, Fox News is there to balance out the views on TV.
All this moaning about TSA methods or the bad of profiling or having to display documentation is making me sick. Hey, if you have nothing to hide, then NONE of these should ruin your day. Suck it up and enjoy that you live in a safe country or fly safely to your destination.
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004Gunner
New member
We all have things to hide, and most of it is innocent. I like to think that privacy is an inherent right. It is not up to a government to decide what I should and should not have to keep private. That decision is for the people to make.
We don't live in a safe country because we have allowed our government to erode our rights, we live in a safe country because we have no shortage of men and women willing to put their lives on the line in defense of their nation, its people, and people's rights.
"I have nothing to hide" is a fallacy and a fool's argument.
Thai
Elite Member
Your "inherent rights" crap should also not interfere with others people's well-being. The fact that folks like you moan about these things mean that my life (and other lives) is at stake. A fool's argument? We all have different view...i would not call your argument any wiser.... :toilet:
004Gunner
New member
That pretty well sums up your point of view, doesn't it?
At least you don't tow a party line.
Thai
Elite Member
Note the quotes around your "words"...just FYI....
I'm an obama supporter is that a problem for you? Not everyone shares your point of view FYI.
I'd really like to see what mccain and palin would have done for this country lol.
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Thai
Elite Member
No prob...it's a free country. But I am laughing at those folks though!
brian2sun
Elite Member
Is there any other country on Earth that listens to other what nations deem is best for their border policies, much less puts their own state in front of a world court (i.e. the UN)? No. Who gives a flying crap what Mexico and 10 other Latin nations think about our border policy? And who the hell gave them a right to tell us what we can do with our borders? That is exclusively an AMERICAN ONLY issue. But our president is letting them tell us what they think we should do. We don't have a say in their border policies, why is he listening to them? IMO it's because he doesn't value American autonomy. This is a huge step toward loosing that autonomy and a huge step towards answering to the UN instead of our constitution and our own laws.
All this "profiling" is the biggest load of BS I've heard in a long time and the people that fall for that argument are not being rational. That's just what magicians do - misdirect attention. They are making it a racial issue when it's a national security issue and a big detriment to our suffering economy. I got pulled over not too long ago and had to show my ID and info, why isn't it considered "profiling" in my case?
They aren't walking up to people on the street for no reason and demanding them to provide papers like the friggin SS (like the Obamanites and illegal alien advocates are making it out to be), they just want to be able to ask for papers when the people have already been stopped for a voilation and when they have a reason to suspect that they are border crossers. And it's because there are literally millions and millions of them - not a few thousand. MILLIONS - and the problem is now officially out of control and something needs to be done about it.
And lets not play stupid people, we can all tell the difference between Americans who are hispanic and illegal aliens. If you'd like to pretend that everyone of Mexican descent is now a target, you are a fool. Nobody is trying to take any rights away from any Americans (well, except for Obama trying to take away our right to protect ourselves). And in the not-so-common instance that an American citizen is asked to show papers because immigration has gotten out of control, big deal. They show their papers just like I had to show mine to the officer that pulled me over and then they go on their way.
I don't mind showing proof when I have nothing to hide. But for some reason a lot of Americans support airport security looking at our naked bodies through an x-ray machine to ride on an airplane, but asking to see ID is a violation of our privacy and rights - rights that illegals don't even have mind you. What are you people smoking and can I get some because it must be some pretty powerful stuff.
If you don't want America to enforce the laws we have regarding illegal immigration - especially now that it has become such a drain on our already bad economy (cough, cough Obama), then IMO you need to question how much you really care about the future of this nation.
All this "profiling" is the biggest load of BS I've heard in a long time and the people that fall for that argument are not being rational. That's just what magicians do - misdirect attention. They are making it a racial issue when it's a national security issue and a big detriment to our suffering economy. I got pulled over not too long ago and had to show my ID and info, why isn't it considered "profiling" in my case?
They aren't walking up to people on the street for no reason and demanding them to provide papers like the friggin SS (like the Obamanites and illegal alien advocates are making it out to be), they just want to be able to ask for papers when the people have already been stopped for a voilation and when they have a reason to suspect that they are border crossers. And it's because there are literally millions and millions of them - not a few thousand. MILLIONS - and the problem is now officially out of control and something needs to be done about it.
And lets not play stupid people, we can all tell the difference between Americans who are hispanic and illegal aliens. If you'd like to pretend that everyone of Mexican descent is now a target, you are a fool. Nobody is trying to take any rights away from any Americans (well, except for Obama trying to take away our right to protect ourselves). And in the not-so-common instance that an American citizen is asked to show papers because immigration has gotten out of control, big deal. They show their papers just like I had to show mine to the officer that pulled me over and then they go on their way.
I don't mind showing proof when I have nothing to hide. But for some reason a lot of Americans support airport security looking at our naked bodies through an x-ray machine to ride on an airplane, but asking to see ID is a violation of our privacy and rights - rights that illegals don't even have mind you. What are you people smoking and can I get some because it must be some pretty powerful stuff.
If you don't want America to enforce the laws we have regarding illegal immigration - especially now that it has become such a drain on our already bad economy (cough, cough Obama), then IMO you need to question how much you really care about the future of this nation.
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004Gunner
New member
I was under the impression that one of the bigger issues is the policy gaps between states in the issuing of driver's licenses. If the states became more uniform then the need to show additional documentation would not exist. The necessary conditions would have to be met prior to getting any state driver's license. New Jersey happens to be very strict. I end up bringing my birth certificate, social security card, passport, firearms id, and a piece of mail every time, just to be sure I don't forget anything. I've even been told that a particular piece of mail froma government agency was not valid :shrug:
brian2sun
Elite Member
I agree that would streamline the whole process. You have a license, you're legal - that's easy. I guess the problem is that many or most of them don't have licenses, but the lack of a license doesn't mean they are necessarily here illegally. I would have no problem if the law made it so either they must carry a license or another approved document to prove they are here legally (like a state issued ID card).
The big problem IMO is that the suits in Washington just plain don't want to enforce the law. Some believe it's because the Democrats know that roughly 90% of Hispanics vote demo and the more illegals that they can put on a fast track to citizenship, the more people in this country will vote demo in the future.
Others believe (myself included) that the dollar will plummet soon and leave us only one choice in the not-so-distant future - combine the economies of the US, Canada and Mexico into one currency much like the Euro in Europe. They already have a name for it - the Amero. And the new nation, country, government, alliance, union, whatever you want to call it will be reffered to as the NAU - North American Union. It seemed to work for Europe, so many believe (at home sadly, and around the world) that it will work here too. They figure why spend billions to secure our borders and enforce the immigration laws if we are all going to be the same country in the next decade or 2 anyways.
The difference between our situation and Europe's is that most European countries already lost most of their autonomy and freedoms so it didn't make a big difference to everyday life over there. If it happens here, say goodbye to our Constitution.
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The problem is that SB1070 has absolutely nothing to do with protecting our borders or national security, and everything to do with political posturing. It should be struck down federally, just like Jim Crow laws and voter literacy laws of decades past which were backhanded attempts at the same thing.
If national security or protecting our borders were an issue, lawmakers in AZ and other border states could stop illegal immigration TOMORROW by doing one simple thing: placing stiff, financially crippling penalties on businesses and individuals who hire, knowingly or unknowingly, an illegal immigrant. If businesses go out of their way not to hire them or risk going under, there will be no work to pursue, and mass immigration will slow to a trickle.
Unfortunately, they won't do that, because they know where their campaign contributions come from.
What SB1070 does have to do with is political posturing to play towards irrational fears of an electorate with broken viewpoints on what constitutes security. At its worst, it's a vehicle for backhanded racism and hate.
It was, after all (hint: every word of this is completely substantiated), written by a state senator with ties to:
1) Neo-nazi groups (photographed shaking hands at a rally),
2) Lobbying firms funded by white nationalists,
3) Legal firms funded by investors with ties to Eugenics programs in the 1970's.
I'm not kidding about any of that; it's black and white when you read about the authors who printed their names on SB1070 and follow the money trail. It sounds like some giant tin-foil hat conspiracy, but the sad part is that it isn't.
It's one more play on fear in the name of security to push a xenophobic agenda in the name of national security.
If national security or protecting our borders were an issue, lawmakers in AZ and other border states could stop illegal immigration TOMORROW by doing one simple thing: placing stiff, financially crippling penalties on businesses and individuals who hire, knowingly or unknowingly, an illegal immigrant. If businesses go out of their way not to hire them or risk going under, there will be no work to pursue, and mass immigration will slow to a trickle.
Unfortunately, they won't do that, because they know where their campaign contributions come from.
What SB1070 does have to do with is political posturing to play towards irrational fears of an electorate with broken viewpoints on what constitutes security. At its worst, it's a vehicle for backhanded racism and hate.
It was, after all (hint: every word of this is completely substantiated), written by a state senator with ties to:
1) Neo-nazi groups (photographed shaking hands at a rally),
2) Lobbying firms funded by white nationalists,
3) Legal firms funded by investors with ties to Eugenics programs in the 1970's.
I'm not kidding about any of that; it's black and white when you read about the authors who printed their names on SB1070 and follow the money trail. It sounds like some giant tin-foil hat conspiracy, but the sad part is that it isn't.
It's one more play on fear in the name of security to push a xenophobic agenda in the name of national security.
brian2sun
Elite Member
How's the weather in the far, far left?
Wouldn't know; I'm not there. Even if I was, so what? For moderates, there's a lot more that's attractive about the moderate left in this country right now than the moderate right mostly because the moderate right, effectively, doesn't exist right now.
Pragmatic solutions to problems and not treating the symptom of a disease isn't left-wing looney -- though, that argument seems to be prevalent lately, inexplicably.
It's not a "far left" idea to uphold constitutional freedoms by not demanding a police force attempt to deport you for not having immediate proof of citizenship on your person, whether you look brown, white, whatever.
It's not a "far left" idea to insinuate that this sort of reactive enforcement, or others like building more walls, is going to have any effect on the root problem, and in fact, will only make it worse.
If you want to stop illegal immigration, you stop the reason for coming here. It's available work that pays more than wages in Mexico and is a much better bang-for-the-buck for businesses. That's the primary reason people flood into our country. No jobs, less immigration. Nip it in the bud and stop it for good.
If you don't want to address businesses hiring illegals in a serious manner, then you aren't serious about stopping illegal immigration, plain and simple. You can't scream "STAY OUT OF OUR COUNTRY" but then also say "well, if they're here, no sense in not hiring them on the cheap." You can't have it both ways.
Politicians of both parties know that. They can "play tough" by producing useless legislation that compromises an unpopular (and democratically silent, legally) demographic in order to score political points with an electorate that believes security comes in the form of trampling constitutional rights, and at the same time not anger businesses by forcing them to actually change the behavior that drives it (and ultimately would cost them money).
I'm not seeing the far left angle, here, unless by "far left" you mean "doesn't fit the narrative of the right perfectly".
