ZR2 Bison - a legit TRD Pro killer?

[Jetboy]

On paper it looks pretty well built for a production truck you can buy. According to the article it'll MSRP around $45k.

Highlights include new long travel suspension with jounce shocks built in and high angle ball joints. 35" tires. Winch ready bumpers. Full skids - real skids. Sliders.

If that matches reality - The Tacoma TRD Pro is in trouble. So is the Ranger Raptor. I think GM already one-up'd them.

Probably still a piece of shit like GM trucks are. And that probably helps explain the significant sales decline the Colorado/Canyon saw last year. Zr2 isn't really good enough with 31" tires and fisherprice size toy shocks. But on paper the ZR2 looks pretty good.

Chevy Colorado ZR2 Bison Headed for Production With a Focus on Overlanding | Off-Road.com Blog

 

[msp]

On paper it looks pretty well built for a production truck you can buy. According to the article it'll MSRP around $45k.

Highlights include new long travel suspension with jounce shocks built in and high angle ball joints. 35" tires. Winch ready bumpers. Full skids - real skids. Sliders.

If that matches reality - The Tacoma TRD Pro is in trouble. So is the Ranger Raptor. I think GM already one-up'd them.

Probably still a piece of shit like GM trucks are. And that probably helps explain the significant sales decline the Colorado/Canyon saw last year. Zr2 isn't really good enough with 31" tires and fisherprice size toy shocks. But on paper the ZR2 looks pretty good.

Chevy Colorado ZR2 Bison Headed for Production With a Focus on Overlanding | Off-Road.com Blog

They're definitely trying vs the "we'll add more TRD badge" refreshes to the 4Runner. They sold more of the combo than the 4Runner last year, so they're doing something right. I'm just not a Chevy guy....

 

[fourwd1]

The Colorado ZR2 has been out for 2 years now, no Taco can touch it.
All the Colorado models blow away all the Taco models.

 

[LandCruiser]

You'd have to spend several grand to even get close to that thing with a TRD.

With that said, I'd totally be impressed if half of the spec sheet makes it into showrooms.

Toyota really needs to step its game up with its "speshul additions."

Even the mildest Jeep can give a TRD a good ass whooping with its SFA setup.

Who am I kidding? An Atkinson cycle wheezy ass V6 with a retarded transmission and... lol... drum brakes couldn't fight its way out of a paper bag.

 

[WVhillbilly]

Get back to me when there is a bunch of them running around with 200K miles on them.

 

[mscot]

Get back to me when there is a bunch of them running around with 200K miles on them.

I’d rather have an enjoyable 100k Miles than a castrated 200k miles


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[WVhillbilly]

Guess you enjoy spending weekends dragging a shitty GM product to the dealer for repairs.
To each his own.

 

[Jetboy]

Guess you enjoy spending weekends dragging a shitty GM product to the dealer for repairs.
To each his own.

Been there... I wouldn't drive one further than I wanted to walk back - although I did almost impulse buy a Humvee a few months ago... so I can't say I'm always opposed to buying low quality vehicles.

At least someone at GM's heart is in the right place. I used to live pretty close to AEV's shop in Missoula. Back then they were building extended wranglers and wrangler pickups. Looked pretty nice quality wise, but they are were a lot more ICON and a lot less Camburg. They basically cater to the land rover type crowd, meaning in two years of living nearby and offroading the local trails I never once met anyone from AEV at any offroad event or saw or any of AEV's vehicles anywhere off the pavement.

My guess is that $45k is a pipe dream. I'd bet they're $70k. And they sell as fast as they can build them.


Also as a side thought - I'm not sure the proliferation of factory offroad trucks is a good thing. It puts a lot more people on the trails - that's definitely not a good thing. And it puts a lot more people on the trail who have no idea what they're doing and are going to cause a lot of problems for keeping the trails open. ATVs are the worst thing that's ever happened to the offroad community for that reason. I'm concerned that the new flood of these vehicles is going to be a second wave of the same type of shit.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Been there... I wouldn't drive one further than I wanted to walk back - although I did almost impulse buy a Humvee a few months ago... so I can't say I'm always opposed to buying low quality vehicles.

At least someone at GM's heart is in the right place. I used to live pretty close to AEV's shop in Missoula. Back then they were building extended wranglers and wrangler pickups. Looked pretty nice quality wise, but they are were a lot more ICON and a lot less Camburg. They basically cater to the land rover type crowd, meaning in two years of living nearby and offroading the local trails I never once met anyone from AEV at any offroad event or saw or any of AEV's vehicles anywhere off the pavement.

My guess is that $45k is a pipe dream. I'd bet they're $70k. And they sell as fast as they can build them.


Also as a side thought - I'm not sure the proliferation of factory offroad trucks is a good thing. It puts a lot more people on the trails - that's definitely not a good thing. And it puts a lot more people on the trail who have no idea what they're doing and are going to cause a lot of problems for keeping the trails open. ATVs are the worst thing that's ever happened to the offroad community for that reason. I'm concerned that the new flood of these vehicles is going to be a second wave of the same type of shit.

If you include Razrs in your ATV definition then I definitely agree.

That being said, how many people will seriously wheel multiple times a year in a +$45k rig? More likely to spend time in parking lots and maybe camp sites if you ask me. The real trail wheelers will buy the base model, or a Tacoma, or a cheap jeep, and upgrade it themselves. That's one reason why the Tacoma is so popular, no matter what mods you throw at it, it will always run.

 

[gm350reratliff]

Been there... I wouldn't drive one further than I wanted to walk back - although I did almost impulse buy a Humvee a few months ago... so I can't say I'm always opposed to buying low quality vehicles.

At least someone at GM's heart is in the right place. I used to live pretty close to AEV's shop in Missoula. Back then they were building extended wranglers and wrangler pickups. Looked pretty nice quality wise, but they are were a lot more ICON and a lot less Camburg. They basically cater to the land rover type crowd, meaning in two years of living nearby and offroading the local trails I never once met anyone from AEV at any offroad event or saw or any of AEV's vehicles anywhere off the pavement.

My guess is that $45k is a pipe dream. I'd bet they're $70k. And they sell as fast as they can build them.


Also as a side thought - I'm not sure the proliferation of factory offroad trucks is a good thing. It puts a lot more people on the trails - that's definitely not a good thing. And it puts a lot more people on the trail who have no idea what they're doing and are going to cause a lot of problems for keeping the trails open. ATVs are the worst thing that's ever happened to the offroad community for that reason. I'm concerned that the new flood of these vehicles is going to be a second wave of the same type of shit.

I agree. There’s no way that thing is $45k, I think $70k is more realistic. I like the looks of it but I could throw that extra stuff on just about anything and like the looks as well. They will probably sell good. I’m a little intrigued by the diesel Colorado but I don’t think I would actually want to own one. One of my coworkers has one and he’s had some issues with the DPF/EGR/DEF systems already. He gets amazing mpg when it’s working though and he claims it has a lot of power. I’ve sat in his and a few others and I just don’t like the dash layout or fit and finish. It feels like 2001 inside there. I really like the Tacoma dash in comparison.

FWIW, some of the best vehicles I’ve owned were chevy trucks. eep: Some of the worst vehicles were Fords, go figure. My 4th and 5th gen 4runners have been awesome as well.

Toyota has their work cut out for them if they want to keep pace with this trend though.

 

[RUNTHAT]

Wasn't the standard ZR2 already a TRDP killer?
:llama:

 

[WVhillbilly]

If you include Razrs in your ATV definition then I definitely agree.

They allow those on county roads here, they are for people too dumb/drunk to ride a quad.

They are also the reason I don't ride my dual sport on weekends anymore, I've nearly gotten hit head on a few times and quit while I was still upright.

 

[JKLNHYD]

I was an inch away from buying a ZR2. I drive the Taco TRD, the ZR2, and then lastly, the 4Runner. Toyota can't match the power the ZR2 had, the gearing and the lockers are a win, and I think the look is a little more aggressive. I have owned plenty of Chevy's and they have all been good to me but in the end, I welcomed the extra space the 4Runner had with the capability that the 4Runner has. This Bison though....Looks KILLER. Had that been available when I was shopping, I might not have been able to walk away!

 

[LandCruiser]

I agree. There’s no way that thing is $45k, I think $70k is more realistic. I like the looks of it but I could throw that extra stuff on just about anything and like the looks as well. They will probably sell good. I’m a little intrigued by the diesel Colorado but I don’t think I would actually want to own one. One of my coworkers has one and he’s had some issues with the DPF/EGR/DEF systems already. He gets amazing mpg when it’s working though and he claims it has a lot of power. I’ve sat in his and a few others and I just don’t like the dash layout or fit and finish. It feels like 2001 inside there. I really like the Tacoma dash in comparison.

FWIW, some of the best vehicles I’ve owned were chevy trucks. eep: Some of the worst vehicles were Fords, go figure. My 4th and 5th gen 4runners have been awesome as well.

Toyota has their work cut out for them if they want to keep pace with this trend though.

It's an AEV.

You can go look on their Jeep and RAM conversions on their web site.

You're spot on and it's probably a 70-80k package. I was wondering if they'd just turn them over to AEV for the conversion jobs.

It's not cheap.

 

[mscot]

FWIW my first vehicle was a 79 Chevy Scottsdale and it went over 200k before it left the family (my uncle sold it)
Our farm truck was a 73 base Chevy truck and it was beat to ever living shit and kept on driving.

Shame they can't make em like they used to..

 

[Jetboy]

Wasn't the standard ZR2 already a TRDP killer?
:llama:

Kinda. Unfortunately there's no example I've seen where anyone has actually raced them or put them through durability kind of testing head to head.

The TRD Pro is an offroad package on a established platform. The ZR2 is something new. The problem with the AR2 is that while it looks great on paper we really don't know how it will last. And it's missing some of the benefits that Toyota has in terms of many years of iterative evolution of the platform. The easy example is the rear shock mounts. The ZR2 put them in a place that's really terrible for off road use. I think they're going to be frequently replaced. That's one of those examples that multiple generations of small improvements have provided the Tacoma that the ZR2 doesn't have. You'll never see a shock hung that low and exposed on any Toyota 4x4.

And GM has a lot of baggage to overcome. They're pretty well known for selling well known poorly engineered products for years and not fixing them or standing behind them. The NP261 transfer case is a great example. Every single one will fail due to a $1 part, you'll never know when because it's impossible to tell externally, and GM took a decade to change the design and did nothing for existing customers. If you're driving a GM HD truck from 98-07 with 4x4 - it's going to happen, just a matter of when. And it's going to cost about $3,000 and a few days. So that means you're a fool to take one anywhere offroad unless you've fixed it already. The problem is that we simply don't know what the problem parts are yet on these trucks. Is there a lurking monster waiting to leave you stranded? Does it have a plastic intake manifold that will leak? Does it have a 70k mile fuel pump? Maybe not. Maybe. No one knows yet.

The result is that the ZR2 is for sure aimed squarely at the TRD Pro tacoma. But it's not a Tacoma killer yet. Only time will tell if it's a real competitor or just a paper tiger.

 

[Throwback]

How is this any different from the AEV Dodges and Jeeps? Your local big Cheverolet dealer will get one to park out front with an $85k sticker on it and it will never sell.

At that price point you would be cross-shopping Land Cruisers, Rovers, etc. so why would you spend that kind of money on some S10 with mud tires?

Regarding more people being out on trails - is that really true? Are there that many more TRD Pros, etc. actually wheeling than there have been Jeeps and such in the past?

 

[T4R2014]

TRD Pro killer? Not even like Toyota puts up a fight anyway.

The guys complaining that it isn't Toyota reliable usually are the same guys that post threads saying "traded it in for a Sienna since we're having a baby".

The Tacoma is a pile of crap.

 

[Jetboy]

How is this any different from the AEV Dodges and Jeeps? Your local big Cheverolet dealer will get one to park out front with an $85k sticker on it and it will never sell.

At that price point you would be cross-shopping Land Cruisers, Rovers, etc. so why would you spend that kind of money on some S10 with mud tires?

Regarding more people being out on trails - is that really true? Are there that many more TRD Pros, etc. actually wheeling than there have been Jeeps and such in the past?

Yes - Moab is practically unrecognizable from 10 years ago. I don't go there very often anymore. Its a combination of things, the trucks are probably more of a symptom than a cause. The general mass exodus from the north east and California the mountain west states and the instagram generation has brought a lot more people into the same places. Harder core trails are still kinda safe form overuse, but if you have 200,000 Rubicons a year going out the door with the ability to slap on 37's and run the Rubicon trial, it's only a matter of time before you need to put in your lottery for a permit to use the trail. Then private companies will convince the government that you should have to pay them to accompany you. At that point it's Disneyland.

It's not just offroading. From river rafting to fly fishing to hiking volcanoes in Hawaii - it's primarily the guide services that are trying to monopolize the use of public lands. Thankfully some places are at least now banning guide services. Montana is going to ban fishing guides on river segments and limiting guiding to every other day on others. It's a good start to keep it from turning into the Grand Canyon "Inc." floating cluster ****. I retract my earlier comment. Guide companies are worse than ATVs for public use of public lands.

 

[Muzzle of Bees]

Yes - Moab is practically unrecognizable from 10 years ago. I don't go there very often anymore. Its a combination of things, the trucks are probably more of a symptom than a cause. The general mass exodus from the north east and California the mountain west states and the instagram generation has brought a lot more people into the same places. Harder core trails are still kinda safe form overuse, but if you have 200,000 Rubicons a year going out the door with the ability to slap on 37's and run the Rubicon trial, it's only a matter of time before you need to put in your lottery for a permit to use the trail. Then private companies will convince the government that you should have to pay them to accompany you. At that point it's Disneyland.

It's not just offroading. From river rafting to fly fishing to hiking volcanoes in Hawaii - it's primarily the guide services that are trying to monopolize the use of public lands. Thankfully some places are at least now banning guide services. Montana is going to ban fishing guides on river segments and limiting guiding to every other day on others. It's a good start to keep it from turning into the Grand Canyon "Inc." floating cluster ****. I retract my earlier comment. Guide companies are worse than ATVs for public use of public lands.

So true. It is pathetic that money trumps logic and skill.