Towing experiences with your 5th Generation

WVhillbilly said:

I though an Excursion had F250 springs under it.
Most of the time when I see one these days it's dragging a 30ft bumper pull camper behind it.

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The OEM springs are far from f250, everything else under there is though. OEM is called family package for a reason. Set up right they are great tow'ers.

Hi, All. Been a little while since I posted here but thought I’d add my info. I’ve towed my 23’ travel trailer about 20k miles since I’ve had my T4R. For reference, the trailer is about 3200lbs dry and 3600 full of everything. Like everyone else, I highly recommend airbags and a WDH. I use both.

My contribution to this thread is that I also installed 4.56 gears. Since the gear swap, towing is definitely better. However, you will definitely notice the higher rpm and loss of mpg. It’s been just over a year since I’ve had the gears installed and I lose about 1.5mpg during the summer and closer to 2-2.5mpg in the winter. I have a theory that in addition to the crap winter fuel, the recommend viscosity gear oil hurts, because I notice a difference with change in outside temps (same drive and season). This is all while NOT towing.

Anyhoo, during towing, my mileage is about the same. You can’t really tow any faster, or expect that you’re going to be able to use 5th gear (although you can a little bit), but everything is a lot nicer. It’s a Toyota, so it’s happy to rev a little bit higher all the time. There is a noticeable improvement to acceleration and just getting out of your own way. Sorry, I did not take before and after 0-60 times.

My final version of the T4R is to get 34x10.5 tires (maybe the 285/70 load C) before my truck succumbs to the salt here in Syracuse. With that combo, the calculators would give me a 7% increase in mechanical ratio, vs the 15% I have now with stock size tires. Im running load E tires and the decrease in weight and taller tires may actually push me back towards “normal”mpg. And I’d still have better towing.

Would I do gears again? Yes, just sooner. If you’re contemplating a lift or bigger tires and you tow, it should be very high on your list.

Cheers,
Nate


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[MENTION=93364]ShooterF16[/MENTION], thanks for the insightful post. I've contemplated a regear myself, but man, don't know that I could stomach a 10-15% hit on the gas mileage... that's rough! It sucks bad enough as it is, 15-16 mpg since we drove it off the lot.

Mines got just over 110k miles and is well broken in. On a normal tank I get 17.0mpg, which includes about a 50/50 mix of city and highway. I can still get 19mpg on the freeway if I set the cruise on 60-65. MPG get way worse once I start going 70 and above. Since most of my highway miles are commuting, I’m going 70-ish to keep up with traffic and avoid road-ragers.

I’d expect your mpg to get better if you’re still breaking it in and it’s on stock tires and lift


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I just got back from towing my buggy 8hrs with my T4R and was really skeptical about it. I put a brake controller in and loaded it up! It towed ok, better than expected. I had to stop about 2 hrs in and pull the buggy back about a foot to lessen some tongue weight and that helped a lot. Trailer is a 18' 7k lb Trail-Load that weights ~1800lbs empty; buggy weights 3220, trail ready. I'm sure with tools, loaded with camping gear I was over the 5k rating, but it did really well all things considered. It's mostly flat here in MN so I just took my time and made sure the trailer brakes were dialed in. I'd do it again without hesitation.

2.5" leveling kit in the front with 285/75/17 KO2's load E.

I just realized I didn't take any pics of the truck / trailer together from this trip.

Off2Mtns said:

Do yourself a favor and add air bags but keep the WDH. 5th gen (2016 here) is fine for a WDH. I contacted Toyota about this and they gave me the okay. I posted a copy of their email response... search posts by my user name. I personally think a good WDH with sway control like an Equalizer for a short wheelbase vehicle like ours is a critical piece of safety equipment.

Also, find a way to truly check you tongue weight; I did and surprised myself that I was well over my acceptable 500# limit. Redistributing load got me back to an acceptable level.

2016 SR5 with Firestone bags, stock springs, pulling an est. 3500# (wet) 19 ft TT.

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Thanks Off2Mtns!! I will keep the WDH hooked up and will make airbags a priority. Hopefully I can get this thing leveled out better. I know I'm towing near max w/ my 22' Evo T1850 w/ dual-axle.

TEN613RPro said:

Heed the advice of Off2mtns, it's real world advice. You generally are not as light as you think you are. Actual loaded weights are a must but far from convenient, if you live in or travel through Oregon on the secondary highways you can use the closed DOT scales for free, they never turn them off. These were my eye opening moments for me with my 7.3 excursion and a 30' travel trailer. What surprised me on my set-up was the drive axle weight on the ex, over max but under on the tongue weight limit. You start loading a suv with gear and people it will add up real fast. I re-sprung my ex to match an f250 then tossed my airbag set up. Using airbags for much more than getting your headlights pointed back to where they should be, is just a crutch for being too heavy.

Another consideration if you are running P tires or C's or D's check to make sure you are not exceeding the tire capacity for carrying extra load.

And don't forget the weight of fuel, from fill up to fill up I lose about 300 lbs in the ex, it holds 44 gallons all behind the rear axle. The 4r tank is between axles as you know which helps with these numbers.

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Thanks for the tips. I'll have to pull into one of those DOT scales the next time I hook up. I'm very curious as to what my actual weight is.

The wife and I are taking a vacation down to Lake Lanier in Georgia so thought I would take her 5th Gen on a few test runs with my 21' Triton, I was thinking I could save some stops for fuel. Long story short, I think I'll be better off pulling it with the Tundra considering it pulls the boat like it's not even back there and I'm thinking I'll be lucky to get 10 MPG with the strain on the 4Runner.

Towed pretty decent, but really missed my Tundra.

The 4Runner is probably getting a reprieve from towing duties.
Wife bought an Armada Saturday. Might as well use the biggest hammer in the toolbox.
Think it will do ok towing a pop up? :biggrin1:

007Tacoma said:

Honestly, for "mostly highway" the 4Runner is very comfortable, and it does a decent job at towing 3500#. However, when you get closer to 5000# the highway uphill becomes a challenge for the drivetrain. Also, the shorter wheelbase is not ideal for heavier loads. You may want to look at a larger vehicle.

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When you say 3500# are you talking about Dry Weight? Or talking about incl water tank full + luggage.

lukeskywalker said:

When you say 3500# are you talking about Dry Weight? Or talking about incl water tank full + luggage.

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Full. I would not want to tow over 3500# with the 4Runner.

I am using Fit System 81850 Snap and Zap Tow Mirror Pair (2015 and Up F150) for tacoma. That would I guess fit for you too.

Late to the game but I regularly tow my 19” ski boat with no problems, in addition to a 22” sailboat and 18” glastron (not at the same time) Lol.


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I'm sure I was way over the limit, but we made the 4 hour trip successfully...

Getting ready to purchase a 17 foot, 2800 gdw camper. Also getting a sway hitch. Driving a 2020 TRD Off Road (2010 SR5 previous). I have read tons of forums and all on this site. Lots of great info. I will post my experience once we go pick it up in Nebraska.. And no 5th gear!

This!!

ShooterF16 said:

Hi, All. Been a little while since I posted here but thought I’d add my info. I’ve towed my 23’ travel trailer about 20k miles since I’ve had my T4R. For reference, the trailer is about 3200lbs dry and 3600 full of everything. Like everyone else, I highly recommend airbags and a WDH. I use both.

My contribution to this thread is that I also installed 4.56 gears. Since the gear swap, towing is definitely better. However, you will definitely notice the higher rpm and loss of mpg. It’s been just over a year since I’ve had the gears installed and I lose about 1.5mpg during the summer and closer to 2-2.5mpg in the winter. I have a theory that in addition to the crap winter fuel, the recommend viscosity gear oil hurts, because I notice a difference with change in outside temps (same drive and season). This is all while NOT towing.

Anyhoo, during towing, my mileage is about the same. You can’t really tow any faster, or expect that you’re going to be able to use 5th gear (although you can a little bit), but everything is a lot nicer. It’s a Toyota, so it’s happy to rev a little bit higher all the time. There is a noticeable improvement to acceleration and just getting out of your own way. Sorry, I did not take before and after 0-60 times.

My final version of the T4R is to get 34x10.5 tires (maybe the 285/70 load C) before my truck succumbs to the salt here in Syracuse. With that combo, the calculators would give me a 7% increase in mechanical ratio, vs the 15% I have now with stock size tires. Im running load E tires and the decrease in weight and taller tires may actually push me back towards “normal”mpg. And I’d still have better towing.

Would I do gears again? Yes, just sooner. If you’re contemplating a lift or bigger tires and you tow, it should be very high on your list.

Cheers,
Nate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I pulled about 2300 pounds of car hauler with a 740 lb motorcycle on it over about 500 miles last weekend and the truck just was NOT happy. Kept it in 4th to maintain 65 mph, and the trans unlocked and/or down shifted to 3rd with only the slightest uphill grade. All in all i figured I was runnning about 7600 lbs, truck, trailer, stuff and my wife and me.

We are considering getting a small off road style trailer (teardrop style maybe?) for retirement playing and a run to the Arctic ocean. Wont even consider it without a re - gear. With 33's and all the (guesstimated) weight, 4.88 seems to be the ticket for ease of towing based on the various gearing calculators I have played with...fuel mileage running solo be damned.

I have no doubt that there are anecdotal stories of stock TR4's pulling 5000+ pounds with "no issues". To borrow a phrase, "You spent so much time worrying about whether you could, you didn't stop to consider whether you should...

Happy Towing!
AMLOR

Gen5 Towing

Picked up a 2018 with 2k miles in NC in Sep 2019 since these are reliable machines and I routinely haul 2400 lb combo with trailer and my wifes Rzr 800 and misc gear to ride. [Someday maybe a toyhauler???] This is my Bible for towing with it since I started driving it last december.

1. First thing I did before towing was hook up a Scangauge ll to baseline engine and transmission temps. Trans torque converter out is hottest and it ran 180F or less in 90F at 75 mph which is fine not towing But when I towed first time on biggest and longest runs in PA Allegheny National Forest for a baseline test, at 65 mph in 90F on a long uphill, trans got as high as 225F so way too hot but expected. So my plan all along was to install a 2018 Tacoma aux trans cooler that was mostly a direct fit up, before I towed a second time. Made friends with a smart toyota dealer parts guy and tacoma owner to help guide me. From lots of T4R towing reads, and years of towing, I knew an aux cooler was an absolute must. Only handwork for Tacoma cooler perfect fit was minor plastic cutting on drivers side behind grill, with a hacksaw and razor knife, and adding a small L-angle support bolted to a condenser hole I drilled. Install took a couple hours, with most of that pulling shield plate off front to access and reroute trans hoses. I think passenger side hose was trans return so made that the inlet to the aux cooler. Also put screen door mesh behind grill with zip ties to keep bug debris off condenser and aux cooler. In winter, 2 choices to keep trans warm, cardboard over cooler that takes 5 minutes or install Improved Raccing 165F high flow thermostatic control valve near radiator trans cooler lines above shield plate. Tow in S4, although you can tow in OD at times, but trans temp and shifting out of OD a lot will tell you when OD isnt good.

2. Agree with 2manytoyz that 4runner can absolutely haul 5000 lbs AND can use WDH, confirmed by his toyota email. Plus I did a quick unverified check of torque stress on that end frame member and its frame rail welds and they were fine. Dodge pickups can haul way more on similar end frame setup I read in a post recently. No way should you really haul more than 3000 without a WDH (based on 10 to 12% tongue weight), and a sway control is ready nice, like when towing in Nebraska wind gusts. If you tow above 1655 lbs, the T4R manual says it MUST have trailer brakes [or your insurance may NOT cover accident liability too].

3. Learn to use the manual control to stop trailer sway. It's a must. I bought a 2000 pound tongue scale to set
trailer loading. It's easy to overload things. Also get a trailer with dual wheels si ce both sets of brakes are a great help. And learn to anticipate stops. I got 50k .miles on explorer brakes when towing a lot, and 125k on police interceptor brakes by paying attention to slowing.

4. Concerning T4R engine power, I've towed 5000 lbs in a Jayco 25 ft trailer all over the U.S. with a 94 Explorer, with 160 hp V6 and the same 3.73 gears and towing package trans cooler, and ran that vehicle to 220k miles. You just have to settle for uphill speeds you get, like 35 mph running uphill past brackenridge CO in it. If you dont like the speed you get, you can upgrade tow vehicles, but the T4R is a dream and a fine midsize tow vehicle at 270 hp. Also agree with 2manytoyz that the 5000 lb limit has design margin already since manufacturers know us.

5. Ive towed up to 10000 lbs in one trailer for 9 years with a big tow vehicle, and the same jayco with a 325 hp Yukon Denali for 5 more years, and also towed with a 400 hp X5, and driven 35 ft motorhomes towing, and up to 26k lb vehicles. Ths T4R can certainly handle 5000 lbs, and if you drive like you have that behind you, it does great. People have their own opinions, as I do, but the vehicle limits are meant to show you what is acceptable and legal. I have no problem with my T4R towing at the specs it was made for. I drive 100 miles per day to work and back, so over sizing my daily driver to tow won't work for me. Hence the midsize T4R and doing my homework on towing with it.

6. Last thought. I do upgrade tow vehicle tire ratings when I run heavy towing loads, especially in summer heat. As I tell my kids, fluids kill the drivetrain, but tires kill the driver. Correct pressures every towing trip daily, good tread, and good tire rating for your loads. I've run police interceptors and M5 tires at design pressure 45 psig with loads and summer heat and high speeds. Its more important when towing to pay attention to tires.

Sorry this is long, but it has lots that I had to dig hard to see what others thought or confirmed or recommended, related to what I've found and recommend

Love this forum and learning what I dont know about my T4R and lots of ideas from you guys!

Agree with everything just said. I just bought a 2021 Ibex at 3700 pounds dry. Use a WDH and brake controller. Was is S3 or S4 going over the Siskiyou pass, highest point on I-5 between Canada and Mexico, and was at 40-45 mph the whole time going up.

I’d like to run air bags but I don’t have the time or tools or garage space to install them and no one local really wants to mess with it. Possibly might swap out my dobinson springs back to my 3” Icon overland springs with a heavy weight rating.

Either way it only sags a little bit more than I’d like and tows fine, just wish it was a little more level.


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GVWR on the trailer is 3700#
Gobi rack + Hobie Kayaks is probably another 330lbs. on the roof.
Redarc brake controller
Andersen WDH
275/70/17 K02 tires
Tow in S4

I'm OK with the towing performance of the 4runner. It's not great but gets the job done. Brakes & sway control work great, no issues feeling unsafe with the weight. My only gripe is the downshifting at even the slightest grades if using cruise control (so I don't). My previous truck was a Chevy 2500HD Duramax pickup that I'd tow a 13,000# center console boat with. 4runner feels about the same towing this little trailer lol.

The photo above was loaded up for a ~600 mile round trip to the panhandle & back. Flat drive on I-10 kept speeds <70mph. Very surprised when I hand calculated 11.7 mpg when we got back, I didn't think it would be that good. We've had the trailer about a year and a half now and have a couple thousand miles of towing on it. If we were full time RV'rs I'd want a more capable tow rig but as weekend warriors the day to day use of the 4Runner + offroad capability wins for me.

IMG_0495.1 by Eric Veale, on Flickr