5-speed clutch pedal sticks on floor in morning (three days in a row)
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foo
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Since there are strong springs and the space is limited under the dash, it's imperative to have a DIY that covers all the steps, so I started searching and found this, which may be useful.
Replacing the Clutch Pedal Bushing
Date: 1/4/2004, By: Bob_98SR5
4Runners.org - Replacing the Clutch Pedal Bushing
Replacing the Clutch Pedal Bushing
Date: 1/4/2004, By: Bob_98SR5
4Runners.org - Replacing the Clutch Pedal Bushing
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foo
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Here's another article that shows the old and new clutch pedal bracket "U" shaped hollow and the old an new spring:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/208970-clutch-pedal-issue-97-sr5-226k.html
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/208970-clutch-pedal-issue-97-sr5-226k.html
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foo
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Dunno if it's true or if it's a myth, but this thread implies you can adjust the post to the clutch master cylinder to make the pedal return higher:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/72896-clutch-question.html
If I need to replace the whole pedal assembly, this thread has some suppliers of used parts:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...-clutch-brake-pedal-assembly.html#post2046971
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/72896-clutch-question.html
If I need to replace the whole pedal assembly, this thread has some suppliers of used parts:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...-clutch-brake-pedal-assembly.html#post2046971
foo
Banned
I'm still lining up my ducks, because I hate to shoot blind...
This thread says we can "re-engineer" the 4Runner u-shaped spring to use a linear spring instead, presumably from the tacomas, but maybe not:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/188611-tacoma-clutch-pedal.html
This thread has pictures of the re-engineered linear springs used by one re-designer:
FIXED!! Stupid PLASTIC clutch pedal bushing - YotaTech Forums
And this thread shows how to adjust the clutch pedal height when done:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/183679-clutch-has-go-floor-shift.html
This thread says we can "re-engineer" the 4Runner u-shaped spring to use a linear spring instead, presumably from the tacomas, but maybe not:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/188611-tacoma-clutch-pedal.html
This thread has pictures of the re-engineered linear springs used by one re-designer:
FIXED!! Stupid PLASTIC clutch pedal bushing - YotaTech Forums
And this thread shows how to adjust the clutch pedal height when done:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/183679-clutch-has-go-floor-shift.html
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foo
Banned
Thanks to your advice which pinpointed the problem, I was able to show the owner the the problem, and so I gave the 4runner back this morning for temporary use.
The owner asked WHY that little bit of broken plastic would cause the clutch pedal to either stay on the floorboards in the morning, or to not come back all the way up the rest of the time.
I don't know. Maybe friction?
The owner asked what the remedy is, and I said I'd talk to you guys to ask whether I should add the brake-spring retrofit or replace the clutch pedal and bushings.
I don't even see *how* the brake-spring retrofit works but I guess it just pulls up the clutch pedal just like my foot did when I was testing it out.
I'm usually inclined to just replace the bad parts with OEM parts (unless you think otherwise), which despite being plastic, did last almost 20 years.
I think all I need to order from Toyota is:
a. The clutch pedal
b. The one plastic U-shaped "P" spring-middle bushing
c. The two plastic round "Q" spring-end bushings
d. The double-coil "horseshoe" return spring
Do you recommend anything else?
The owner asked WHY that little bit of broken plastic would cause the clutch pedal to either stay on the floorboards in the morning, or to not come back all the way up the rest of the time.
I don't know. Maybe friction?
The owner asked what the remedy is, and I said I'd talk to you guys to ask whether I should add the brake-spring retrofit or replace the clutch pedal and bushings.
I don't even see *how* the brake-spring retrofit works but I guess it just pulls up the clutch pedal just like my foot did when I was testing it out.
I'm usually inclined to just replace the bad parts with OEM parts (unless you think otherwise), which despite being plastic, did last almost 20 years.
I think all I need to order from Toyota is:
a. The clutch pedal
b. The one plastic U-shaped "P" spring-middle bushing
c. The two plastic round "Q" spring-end bushings
d. The double-coil "horseshoe" return spring
Do you recommend anything else?
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Coward
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I like this post! I have had a few clutch issues with mine over the years. Including clutch replacement due to normal wear. Hydraulics due to wear. the 2nd clutch when the clutch fork actual broke in half (for a few months the clutch was funny before it snapped). AND I have always had the squeaky pedal (dealer fixed once at 30k miles). But this picture made me look at the center of the spring again. My pedal had issues for a few years where it was always short of returning to the top. No issues it was just loose for the first inch or so of travel. I adjusted the input rod on the master cylinder to correct this issue. Looking at my spring to day I see where the pivot point on my pedal assembly is worn almost completely thru! Guess I need to fix that before it breaks in half!
foo
Banned
Wow. That means we "can" remove the spring altogether and not even need the "P" and "Q" bushings!
Thank you for that data point because it takes no brains to throw parts at a problem, but it does take intelligent thought (and some risk) to mod an existing design, which, in your case, is to forgo the spring.
So the fact that it works fine without the spring is good to know, because you took the risk - while I get to benefit from you taking that risk.
I had been wondering all along how effective the linear spring workaround was, because I thought they used *both* the double-coil horseshoe spring PLUS the linear spring - but maybe they were talking about REPLACING the double-coil horseshoe spring with just the single linera spring?
I'll have to doublecheck the references, as that thought only occurred to me based on what you said, so maybe I misread the workaround references yesterday.
The great news is that you say it works fine even without a spring!
Given that, then the linear spring workaround has a much greater chance of actually working (in that it just brings up the pedal that last inch).
Since we're talking about redesigning the pedal-return mechanism, one thought stuck in my mind is HOW the pedal is brought back once the clutch is engaged.
Is 90% of the pedal return caused by BACK PRESSURE from the hydraulic system as the pressure plate springs push back, with only 10% of the clutch pedal return governed by the double-coil horseshoe spring?
Or, is 100% of the clutch pedal return governed by the double-coil horseshoe spring?
(Photo below is from a Tacoma home-made bronze redesign of the horseshoe spring "P" bushing.)
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/clutch-pedal-squeak-new-bushing-design.76599/
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foo
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Thank you for adding your experience to the topic because I am striving to as completely understand this issue as anyone can understand it, and once I understand it, I can redesign, myself, or use someone elses' redesign, if warranted.
You just brought up a topic that got me angry with the dealer in that the owner had complained to the dealer about the clutch squeaking on return, and they said it was highly unusual for a Toyota clutch pedal to squeak and that they couldn't figure out why it did that.
I'm not sure where the squeak comes from, but they must know since Toyota engineers designed this thing and they must fix it all the time.
One question in my mind is whether the squeak is an indication that the clutch-return double-coil horseshoe "P" or "Q" bushings are so far gone that there is metal on metal, or, if the squeak even happens when the "P" and "Q" pedal return spring bushings are still intact?
Our counterparts over on the Tacoma side have had similar problems, so here's a nice writeup for the next person who has this problem to benefit from.
Toyota Tacoma: Clutch Pedal Bushing Replacement
Welcome to LIEBLWEB.com's Toyota Tacoma Clutch Petal Bushing Replacement Write-Up!
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foo
Banned
As we did in the case of the Prothane bushings, where we solved the problem for EVERYONE simply by digging deeper than most people go, and by doing so, getting the MANUFACTURERS to FIX their bushings, at this point, I'm starting to put together enough information into this one thread so that all that is known about how to identify and fix this problem, is available as a one-shot-thread (at least if people click on the links provided).
The first goal is so that the next person starts at a better (easier) place than I started on this problem.
Sometimes we get further than that, by finding an engineering solution to the problem that is better than OEM.
And, sometimes we get the manufacturers to FIX the problem (this is rare, I agree - but it worked with the Prothane bushings, didn't it!).
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...er-part-under-my-4runner-makes-noise-now.html
To that end, I'll state that it seems that the problem appears to transcend models from Tacoma to Tundra to 4Runner, as shown by this site below:
Toyota Clutch Pedal Bushing Kit Tacoma 4runner & Tundra - KIT-1028
Here's a similar clutch pedal squeak repair modification on the tacoma side:
Clutch squeak Linear Spring swap (TW how to)
Noisy Tacoma Clutch Pedal
The first goal is so that the next person starts at a better (easier) place than I started on this problem.
Sometimes we get further than that, by finding an engineering solution to the problem that is better than OEM.
And, sometimes we get the manufacturers to FIX the problem (this is rare, I agree - but it worked with the Prothane bushings, didn't it!).
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...er-part-under-my-4runner-makes-noise-now.html
To that end, I'll state that it seems that the problem appears to transcend models from Tacoma to Tundra to 4Runner, as shown by this site below:
Toyota Clutch Pedal Bushing Kit Tacoma 4runner & Tundra - KIT-1028
Here's a similar clutch pedal squeak repair modification on the tacoma side:
Clutch squeak Linear Spring swap (TW how to)
Noisy Tacoma Clutch Pedal
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Myrunr2010
New member
foo
Banned
Since this Toyota had a squeak that the dealer couldn't fix under warranty, the reason for the squeak might actually be inherent, somehow, in the design.
This thread implies that the torsion spring itself is the cause of the squeak (and not bushing wear!) perhaps due to metal-on-metal rubbing of the horseshoe-shaped-spring coils?
Clutch squeak Linear Spring swap (TW how to)
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/clutch-squeak-linear-spring-swap-tw-how-to.159429/page-5
This thread implies that the torsion spring itself is the cause of the squeak (and not bushing wear!) perhaps due to metal-on-metal rubbing of the horseshoe-shaped-spring coils?
Clutch squeak Linear Spring swap (TW how to)
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/clutch-squeak-linear-spring-swap-tw-how-to.159429/page-5
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foo
Banned
I don't disagree with you, as I know the owner of this 4Runner intimately, and there is absolutely no way she'd ever even tell a fib, and she bought the 4Runner new, and said the dealer was unhelpful about the squeak.
Seems to me, the more I read about this bushing issue in order to understand how to solve the problem with a re-engineered solution perhaps, is that the problem seems pretty universal - so for the dealer to claim ignorance is, as you said, BS by the dealer.
The one problem I have now is that people are saying the squeak is solved by DIFFERENT methods, so, I'm not sure yet exactly what is causing the squeak.
For example, this article clearly says the squeak is due to the bushings!
Replace Your Clutch Pedal Bushings
Tech Knowledgebase - Replace Your Clutch Pedal Bushings
BTW, notice they have MORE bushings identified to replace than just the P/Q bushings I've seen until now.
Do we, on the 4Runner, have those additional bushings?
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foo
Banned
It looks like there have been a few different redesigns that attempt to solve both the problem of the chronic pedal-return squeak, and the frequent wearing out of the plastic bushings.
This guy replaced all the associated plastic bushings, not just the P/Q bushings, with bronze.
Tacoma Bronze Clutch Pedal Spring Bushing Replacement (PICS)
Tacoma Bronze Clutch Pedal Spring Bushing Replacement (PICS) - TTORA Forum
This guy replaced all the associated plastic bushings, not just the P/Q bushings, with bronze.
Tacoma Bronze Clutch Pedal Spring Bushing Replacement (PICS)
Tacoma Bronze Clutch Pedal Spring Bushing Replacement (PICS) - TTORA Forum
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foo
Banned
While I have been referring to the U-shaped bushing as the clutch return torsion spring "P" bushing, this thread calls it the "Clutch Pedal Turnover Bushing", so that may be a more proper search term in the future.
Throwout Bearing issues
Throwout Bearing issues - TTORA Forum
Throwout Bearing issues
Throwout Bearing issues - TTORA Forum
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foo
Banned
A lot of people just replace stuff, and some just take the suggested redesigns on faith, but for the people who research the many attempted redesigns, this particular thread is perhaps one of the best - because this guy tried them all - and he - like me - tries to help others by simply documenting what he found out in his experiments!
So we all benefit from people like him!
Grumble grumble stupid clutch bushing grumble (pictures)
http://www.ultimateyota.com/showthr...umble-stupid-clutch-bushing-grumble-(pictures)
This guy confirmed what the other articles merely implied, which is that you remove the factory spring and replace it with the linear spring:
However, it didn't work for long. So he replaced the u-shaped "P" bushing with bronze, and replaced the pedal-return torsion spring and the two "Q" bushings on each end of the torsion spring.
Unfortunately ...
His redesign was DIFFERENT than all the previous redesigns:
He then fabricated a new bronze bushing, but ...
Since no good deed goes unpunished...
But he kept trying...
Finally coming up with a NYLON bushing workaround:
So we all benefit from people like him!
Grumble grumble stupid clutch bushing grumble (pictures)
http://www.ultimateyota.com/showthr...umble-stupid-clutch-bushing-grumble-(pictures)
This guy confirmed what the other articles merely implied, which is that you remove the factory spring and replace it with the linear spring:
However, it didn't work for long. So he replaced the u-shaped "P" bushing with bronze, and replaced the pedal-return torsion spring and the two "Q" bushings on each end of the torsion spring.
Unfortunately ...
His redesign was DIFFERENT than all the previous redesigns:
He then fabricated a new bronze bushing, but ...
Since no good deed goes unpunished...
But he kept trying...
Finally coming up with a NYLON bushing workaround:
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foo
Banned
I'm not sure yet if I'm gonna risk the redesigns but if I did, I'd opt for the NYLON bushings, so if anyone has a SOURCE for them at a big box store (e.g., Home Depot, Lowes, OSH, etc.), let me know what part number you used, and what size, as that's where the risk and effort lies.
As for OEM replacement, I called a few local dealers, and none had the entire set in stock, but the prices quoted, just FYI, were as follows:
a. Pedal = $90 to $110
b. Spring = $27 to $30
c. Bushing P = $5
d. Bushing Q = $10 to $24 (per set)
BTW, this article offers a NEW diagnostic test, for the spring, anyway:
Pedal Assembly Recon
Pedal Assembly Recon - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
Since in the 4runner that I'm trying to retrofit, the P bushing is gone, and the Q bushings are so badly trashed that I don't know what the original shape was, this photo in that thread is potentially useful for trying to find a big-box store NYLON replacement for these two P & Q bushings that we all could benefit from!
As for OEM replacement, I called a few local dealers, and none had the entire set in stock, but the prices quoted, just FYI, were as follows:
a. Pedal = $90 to $110
b. Spring = $27 to $30
c. Bushing P = $5
d. Bushing Q = $10 to $24 (per set)
BTW, this article offers a NEW diagnostic test, for the spring, anyway:
Pedal Assembly Recon
Pedal Assembly Recon - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
Since in the 4runner that I'm trying to retrofit, the P bushing is gone, and the Q bushings are so badly trashed that I don't know what the original shape was, this photo in that thread is potentially useful for trying to find a big-box store NYLON replacement for these two P & Q bushings that we all could benefit from!
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foo
Banned
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