2011 SR5 4 wheel not engaging

[Hambone]

I have searched and read many threads on this issue but I am looking for some specific help if the likes of engineer1 or antman are willing to offer some advice to a newb. I've been on the forum awhile but am just beginning my foray into diy repairs and mods.

I currently have the front dif actuator removed and function tested, this is where I am stuck. Feel free to post here or pm me with advice.

Thank you-

Justin

 

[1engineer]

Oh my...
You are a novice and you decided to remove the ADD? What were your symptoms?

 

[Muddy Duck]

What was the truck doing before you took it apart?? Why did you decide to remove the actuator? What are you trying to do (give more detail than "trying to make it work ")?

 

[Hambone]

Yes sir, thanks for the reply. The add removal seemed straightforward enough so I decided to tackle it. The four wheel drive would not engage when moving the lever to 4-hi. No light on the dash, no blinking light, and no engaged front dif. When in 4-hi the transfer case does lock the front drive shaft but I get nothing beyond that. Same situation in 4-Lo.

 

[Hambone]

[MENTION=59841]Muddy[/MENTION]duck I went with the add based on the symptoms I was having. Perhaps there were other checks to do before this stage.

 

[1engineer]

[MENTION=59841]Muddy[/MENTION]duck I went with the add based on the symptoms I was having. Perhaps there were other checks to do before this stage.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/127363-electronic-vs-manual-4wd.html#post1207583 try this link [MENTION=61541]Hambone[/MENTION]. Actually read the link that is in the post I linked on ADD. This should help you troubleshoot and check the ADD too.
When you shifted into 4hi were you moving? When was the last time you used 4wd?

 

[wfo9]

Sounds like you are somewhat on the right track with the ADD...

BUT... no flashing light makes me think it is something further back in the transfer case. There is a sensor that picks up the TCase being engaged, that lets the 4wd ECU trigger the ADD. I would guess your problem starts there.


You need Help from.
[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]

And just a hint, from years of troubleshooting. Start with all the upstream stuff first that can be easily tested without taking anything apart. Dig in only after all the input signals look good.

 

[Apex Overland]

Check the fuse. should be a 20 amp if memory serves correct. [MENTION=61541]Hambone[/MENTION]
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[Apex Overland]

yup walked outside, 20 amp fuse. the inside box located above e-brake pedal. I had a few come in with that same blown fuse before.

 

[Hambone]

[MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION], Thanks for the link. I actually had read that prior to tackling this project.
My symptoms:

Moving the transfer case lever to 4-hi would result in no flashing light or activation of 4 wheel drive. This was done at speeds less than 50 mph, in drive and every variation in between.
Moving the transfer case lever to 4-low when stopped and in neutral; I could feel the lever engage the gears and the truck would drive as if in low gear but no lights would illuminate on the dash and the front dif would not engage.

With the transfer case lever in 4-hi, the front drive shaft is locked in place and will not free spin by hand. The same is true when placed in 4-low with the transmission in neutral.

I checked the 20a fuse for the 4wd under the driver side dash as well as the two fuses under the hood in position 30 and 31.

Reading the FJ post led me to check the ADD, ohming out the motor with the ADD still attached gave me no reading between pins 1 and 2. This led me to believe either the motor is bad, or the posts became disconnected. Thus I removed the ADD after draining the front dif fluid.

Once removed, I took off the black housing held in place with 5 phillips head screws to reveal the motor and gears. Everything looked great with clean grease and the contacts still intact. I tested the ADD and verified the worm gear operated in both directions when 12v was applied.
I reassembled the ADD and again tested the motor, the fork moved in both directions.
I again ohmed out the motor with pins 1 and 2 showing open and pins 1 and 3 generating a reading.
The vacuum release tube appears to be solid from the ADD to its point of termination.

This is where I am stuck, do I reinstall the ADD and fill the dif just to try it out?

 

[Jeremy556]

No vacuum involved in Toyota's ADD, that is probably a breather line.

My money is on the transfer case position switches, as [MENTION=106176]wfo9[/MENTION] mentioned. No 4wd dash lights at all point to the 4wd ECU not knowing it is in 4wd.

 

[Hambone]

Yes sir, my mistake. It was the breather line. Are the transfer case switches something I can check?

 

[wfo9]

No vacuum involved in Toyota's ADD, that is probably a breather line.

My money is on the transfer case position switches, as [MENTION=106176]wfo9[/MENTION] mentioned. No 4wd dash lights at all point to the 4wd ECU not knowing it is in 4wd.

Yea, it seems like the only logical answer, but I would wait on BlackWorksInc to chime in. He may have some troubleshooting guides.

According to the repair manual.... You have to remove transfer case and transmission to get at the indicator switch. (I think it is on the top of the T-Case). You would want to be be 100% sure that was the problem before going there.

 

[wfo9]

This may help if you can reach the connectors...

 

[Hambone]

Thanks gentlemen! I will also await [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] to offer some advice if he can.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

[MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION], Thanks for the link. I actually had read that prior to tackling this project.
My symptoms:

Moving the transfer case lever to 4-hi would result in no flashing light or activation of 4 wheel drive. This was done at speeds less than 50 mph, in drive and every variation in between.
Moving the transfer case lever to 4-low when stopped and in neutral; I could feel the lever engage the gears and the truck would drive as if in low gear but no lights would illuminate on the dash and the front dif would not engage.

With the transfer case lever in 4-hi, the front drive shaft is locked in place and will not free spin by hand. The same is true when placed in 4-low with the transmission in neutral.

I checked the 20a fuse for the 4wd under the driver side dash as well as the two fuses under the hood in position 30 and 31.

Reading the FJ post led me to check the ADD, ohming out the motor with the ADD still attached gave me no reading between pins 1 and 2. This led me to believe either the motor is bad, or the posts became disconnected. Thus I removed the ADD after draining the front dif fluid.

Once removed, I took off the black housing held in place with 5 phillips head screws to reveal the motor and gears. Everything looked great with clean grease and the contacts still intact. I tested the ADD and verified the worm gear operated in both directions when 12v was applied.
I reassembled the ADD and again tested the motor, the fork moved in both directions.
I again ohmed out the motor with pins 1 and 2 showing open and pins 1 and 3 generating a reading.
The vacuum release tube appears to be solid from the ADD to its point of termination.

This is where I am stuck, do I reinstall the ADD and fill the dif just to try it out?

How are you actuating the ADD? The FSM seems to make note that failure to utilize a relay can cause damage if you're applying direct current to the ADD to test it? (Not entirely sure what they're reasoning is just glancing at it.)

Those resistance values don't make any sense to be to be honest, nor do I entirely care about the motor's resistance value at the moment as A.) it seems to be operating so... yeah B.) this doesn't sound like a motor issue as much as a driver issue (meaning that whatever processes are required to be completed/passed before the motor is commanded on have failed.)

Pins 1 & 2 (DM1 & DM2 respectively) are specifically for the motor operation. Pins 3~6 (ADD, GND, DL1, and DL2 respectively) are for the limit switch and ADD Detection switch. There should be no continuity between any of Pins 3~6 to Pins 1 and/or 2 as they are not physically wired together in the ADD according to the EWD (electrical wiring diagram.)

I'll try and reread your post tomorrow if I have some free time, as I could be interpreting your text wrong at this late an hour... but can you maybe post pictures of your testing set-up (and what pins you're checking) as well as what diagnostic steps you've taken and where you're getting your reference values (i.e. I don't understand why you're checking Pins 1 & 3 for continuity to begin with; did you find a forum post referencing that or a page in the FSM?)

Because at the current moment I'm a bit lost as to how you arrived at the issue being in the ADD and what diagnostic criteria you're using; so getting an idea of your diagnostic steps will help me (and the forum) better follow your logic here.

 

[wfo9]

Yep, it is hard to read a long post....

Let me summarize...
He was totally guessing about the ADD...

The symptoms were...no 4wd operation (no 4wd lights blinking or anything on the dash). However, it sounded like the TCASE was engaging the front drive shaft and allowing the reduction gear for 4L.

But still no ADD, and therefore no actual 4WD up front, just spinning the diff with all power going to the disconnected passenger output shaft.

The lack of any lights on the dash led several of us to conclude something with the 4wd ECU controls and probably no motor control to the ADD. My guess was the 4wd indicator switch in the T-Case.

Should be easy to test that if you can get at the connector. If not, I would assume there is some guide to the pins on the 4wd ECU.

This may just end up being one of those dealer visit is the only way scenarios. Can't expect blackworks or anyone else to work for free LOL, but I like these threads because they are educational for everyone. We all may have the same issue at some point....

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Yep, it is hard to read a long post....

Let me summarize...
He was totally guessing about the ADD...

The symptoms were...no 4wd operation (no 4wd lights blinking or anything on the dash). However, it sounded like the TCASE was engaging the front drive shaft and allowing the reduction gear for 4L.

But still no ADD, and therefore no actual 4WD up front, just spinning the diff with all power going to the disconnected passenger output shaft.

The lack of any lights on the dash led several of us to conclude something with the 4wd ECU controls and probably no motor control to the ADD. My guess was the 4wd indicator switch in the T-Case.

Should be easy to test that if you can get at the connector. If not, I would assume there is some guide to the pins on the 4wd ECU.

This may just end up being one of those dealer visit is the only way scenarios. Can't expect blackworks or anyone else to work for free LOL, but I like these threads because they are educational for everyone. We all may have the same issue at some point....

I understand how he arrived at suspecting the ADD component of the system, I have no issue with that as it's pretty cut and dry. What I didn't understand in his diagnostic steps is why he went from "I think there's an issue with the ADD part of the 4WD system" to "I have it apart on my bench and I'm testing one terminal for the motor (Pin 1) with one terminal for an unrelated ADD sensing circuit (Pin 3)"

Additionally his results, combined with his manual activation of the ADD (again, not entirely sure how he's achieving this; i.e. is he using just jumper leads off the 12v battery or a relay, or do you have a 12v power supply? ect.) make no sense. He should have some resistance value between Pins 1 & 2 (the power & ground supply for the motor operation), if he's getting an "OL" or Open reading then the motor should not function when manually jumped. I also don't understand why he's testing between Pin 1 & Pin 3 of the ADD, because those are two entirely separate circuits in the unit itself; so he should get no continuity between them (Pin 3 is input voltage for the ADD Detection Switch, which grounds through Pin 4).

So to make sense of his results and where he is in his diagnostics with what logic/information sources he's using. Otherwise we have to start from the very beginning and throw out the information because based on the way the FSM details the diagnostic procedure, he's way off base and ignore everything he's done after "I think the issue is in the ADD part of the system." I'm not entirely sure is that makes any sense?

Post Note-
I'd post pictures of the EWD and the sections in the FSM if I could; but after 2005 model year being able to save any files from TIS is difficult.

 

[Hambone]

I see the cause of confusion and apologize for my lack of detail.

I'll attempt to make sense of it. I was unable to locate proper troubleshooting material other than what I found on forums and YouTube. I was steered towards the ADD by comparing my issues with those found in other threads. I completely missed the tcase switches and jumped right for the ADD. A video I watched of an FJ ADD repair had instructions to ohm out pins 1 and 2. Pin 1 being the top most pin when the ADD is installed.

I tested the connection between 1&2 when the ADD was still attached and my multimeter showed a 1 when set to measure 20 ohms, this is what is displayed on an open circuit. It's a cheap Craftsman model.
My function test consisted of leads ran directly of the vehicles battery. Positive to pin 1 and ground to 2, the motor functioned. I then reassembled the ADD and tested it directly from the battery again with the same results.
Pins 1&3 were tested just to see what Id get as I expected them to read 1 as well. I included the information in case it led to something.
Based on [MENTION=106176]wfo9[/MENTION] posts, I reinstalled the ADD and tested the tcase switch, passenger side switch, with tcase in 4-hi reads a 1 or "open". I've ordered a replacement from Toyota and will try and figure out how to remove it tomorrow.

I clearly am not a mechanic, forgive me for my less than technically accurate writing. I am an EOD technician (bomb tech) by trade and haven't had the opportunity to work on vehicles since before 9/11.
Thanks again for all of your help, I know nobody wants to work for free. [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] and [MENTION=106176]wfo9[/MENTION], I will buy you a case of beer or make a donation to a charity of your choice.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I see the cause of confusion and apologize for my lack of detail.

I'll attempt to make sense of it. I was unable to locate proper troubleshooting material other than what I found on forums and YouTube. I was steered towards the ADD by comparing my issues with those found in other threads. I completely missed the tcase switches and jumped right for the ADD. A video I watched of an FJ ADD repair had instructions to ohm out pins 1 and 2. Pin 1 being the top most pin when the ADD is installed.

I tested the connection between 1&2 when the ADD was still attached and my multimeter showed a 1 when set to measure 20 ohms, this is what is displayed on an open circuit. It's a cheap Craftsman model.
My function test consisted of leads ran directly of the vehicles battery. Positive to pin 1 and ground to 2, the motor functioned. I then reassembled the ADD and tested it directly from the battery again with the same results.
Pins 1&3 were tested just to see what Id get as I expected them to read 1 as well. I included the information in case it led to something.
Based on [MENTION=106176]wfo9[/MENTION] posts, I reinstalled the ADD and tested the tcase switch, passenger side switch, with tcase in 4-hi reads a 1 or "open". I've ordered a replacement from Toyota and will try and figure out how to remove it tomorrow.

I clearly am not a mechanic, forgive me for my less than technically accurate writing. I am an EOD technician (bomb tech) by trade and haven't had the opportunity to work on vehicles since before 9/11.
Thanks again for all of your help, I know nobody wants to work for free. [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] and [MENTION=106176]wfo9[/MENTION], I will buy you a case of beer or make a donation to a charity of your choice.

It's not a problem and please don't feel bad about it, I don't expect everyone to be able to recite technical information like it's their hobby (unlike me some people actually have a life). As long as you can convey the information in a way that I or other members can somewhat follow you on (I like pictures! ), then we can do our best to help; lots of members come on the forum and will post "I have a weird noise, help me" and not realize that diagnostics don't work that way. We need information such as "what is the noise? when does it happen? What are you/the vehicle doing when it happens? ect." so part of helping you is better understanding the problem and the step you took/will take to figure it out.

I had a feeling that your continuity check of Pin 1 & 3 was just to check for reference/internal short on isolated circuits (which I would probably do as well if I felt inclined), but without any context in your post I wasn't sure if you were following some diagnostic chart/thread post or just doing it to check for some internal shorting.

In regards to checking the Transfer Case switches, you're talking about these?


The "Transfer Case Indicator Switch (Neutral Position)" is the second switch on the driver's side of the transfer case and should read below 1Ω when the transfer case is in the "Neutral" position and read 100kΩ or Higher when it is out of "Neutral." (in this case what Toyota is saying is that if the resistance is anywhere between 100kΩ and "OL" or "Over Limit" which is a common way of saying Open in DMM speak, the switch is fine electrically)

The "Transfer Case Indicator Switch (4WD Position)" located on the passenger side of the transfer case should also read below 1Ω when depressed (this time when the transfer case is in either of the 4WD positions) and 100kΩ or higher when it is in 2WD.

The 3rd switch is for 4Lo and is in front of the Neutral switch, it should read the same 1Ω or lower when the case is in 4Lo and 100kΩ or higher when it is in any other position.

Post Note-

How ironic you're an EOD I wanted to be a USMC EOD a while back but got turned down due to some BS reasons I decided not to fight them on; anyways, being an EOD I'm sure you're very familiar with a DMM, but you may want to check out this thread: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/132953-toolbox-how-use.html it's got some good information for members who want to learn how to work on their vehicles a bit more. Particularly useful if you want to brush up on automotive technical junk if it's been a while since you wrenched.