2011 SR5 Brake Dive Revisited

[1engineer]

So I was in the same boat as all of you: Wondering why the engineers at Toyota saw fit to design the brakes and suspension of the SR5 4Runner like they did with noticable nose dive during intermediate to hard braking. Well, I think I figured it out this weekend.

I have had my 4Runner for about 3 months now and it is a fine vehicle in every way and I have 6K miles on it right now. The design of the brakes and suspension puzzled me however. I had some chores to do this past weekend and it involved several hundred pounds of various landscaping stuff like pavers, dirt, mulch, bushes, etc. Up til now the only loads in the back have been people and luggage and not a lot of that.

I put about 400 pounds of above landscaping stuff in the back and headed home. I immediately noticed the difference in braking and suspension. Everything was smooth, very little nosedive or anything else. I unloaded and went to a concrete place to pick up some sand and block. Had about the same weight and again everything was smooth.

It seems that the 4Runner, in regards to the SR5, operates much better and smoother with some weight in the cargo area. Was it designed that way? I think so. Is this the best solution? I don't know but it certainly drives, handles and brakes much better and different with a load back there. Anyone else notice this?

 

[scanny]

I noticied that too , but I attributed it to the fact that I drive much more carefully when I have heavy load which can shift on sharp turns or hard brake : ) besides I developed habbit to use brake the way nosedive is not really noticeable. You know, press the pedal firm, than release it then press again not so hard and reliving pressure slowly.
I thought that soft suspension is good for offroad and on a bad road you can drive fast without everything vibrates inside the vehicle.

 

[traffic626]

Odd thing is I don't notice a nose dive with my 2010, but when I test drove a 2011, I felt the nose dive every time I applied the brakes. I haven't loaded up the trunk yet.

 

[philsey]

@ 1engineer: Agree. I've hauled landscaping stuff twice and it does settle things down a bit. I just put 5100's on a few weeks ago, and leveled out the front. This has reduced the dive by half, and firmed up the ride just about right.

 

[homeyclaus]

I noticed it too - when my TE is stuffed to the gills with people and gear it drives substantially better. As in, actually nice.

Empty ... not so much. This being said, my service rep informed me Wednesday that my front right shock blew at 4700 miles after i complained about some weirdness in the ride and loss of tire balance ... oops.

I was planning on putting in non-lifting Bilsteins anyways, so hopefully I can get them to pick up the re&re labor and alignment for me, since they insist this is a warranty thing ("no signs of abuse there, homeyclaus!").

 

[Quentin]

Tundra has a similar design philosophy with the rear suspension. Basically, unloaded, it is pretty skittish and weird, but when you load the bed, it rides really well.

 

[jakehere]

Tundra has a similar design philosophy with the rear suspension. Basically, unloaded, it is pretty skittish and weird, but when you load the bed, it rides really well.

I agree since I've owned 3 tundras but basically you're describing all full-sized trucks...

 

[1engineer]

@ 1engineer: Agree. I've hauled landscaping stuff twice and it does settle things down a bit. I just put 5100's on a few weeks ago, and leveled out the front. This has reduced the dive by half, and firmed up the ride just about right.

Yes, I can see how even just leveling could help some. I am extremely pleased in this vehicle so far but I can just imagine a bunch of the Toyota engineers, sitting around, in 2007, speaking japanese, saying "OK, now for the suspension. How many vote on it being perfect with no load? Hmmmm, just onewhoneverhauls in the back. Ok, now how many want the suspension to be tuned with a moderate load in the back? Eight. Very good its settled."

 

[philsey]

^^^ Tempts me to keep 4 of those sand tubes in there...

 

[1engineer]

^^^ Tempts me to keep 4 of those sand tubes in there...

me too except for the hit on gas milage.

 

[bluebullet]

I had read about the brake dive and noticed it a bit, but I really was disappointed the other day.

We took a trip to the Olympic Peninsula to visit before our MT winter sets in. We had about 200 lbs of luggage in the back so the leveling may have been addressed somewhat. We were off early at 5:00am to catch the first ferry so it was still dark. Down in the meadows near the ferry little red foxes were on the side of the road and some in the road. I braked hard for one in the road about 100' away and the brake dive caused my headlights to completely lose the unintended target (the fox). I was doing about 45mph and slowed to about 15mph thinking WTF I can't even see 50' ahead of me. This is definitely a safety issue. It really spooked me. Mr. Fox was probably chuckling as he dashed back into the meadow.

The dive does not bother me as much as inability to see b/c the headlights dip. I don't know how to correct this, but I will make Toyota aware starting with my local dealership. Does anyone have a solution to this problem? Self leveling headlights? Sounds like the Bilstein shocks do not help that much.

 

[KCcarguy]

14k miles and the brake dive is getting pretty old. I also notice it gets a little hairy when trying steer under hard braking when the back-end is unloaded. I drive a lot of two lane highway with sweeping turns and elevation changes where I live; the bobbing/ wandering on is really starting to bother me. I've also noticed when the back is loaded with weight (even just two passengers) it is really jarring coming over dips and crests in the highway....like it's hitting the bumpstops or something. The same feeling I used to get when I reallyloaded-up my Tacoma. What's the deal? Has anyone else experienced this? Does a lift and larger tires help?

I don't think there could be any technical reason for Toyota to tune the suspension like this. I honestly think they just assume Americans want that soft/ floaty ride.