255/75/17 KO2 Pizza Cutters

[Throwback]

By that logic you'd get better traction not airing down and in fact would do better to run really high pressure to get more psi to the ground via smaller tire footprint. In reality that doesn't help.

 

[ronman737]

By that logic you'd get better traction not airing down and in fact would do better to run really high pressure to get more psi to the ground via smaller tire footprint. In reality that doesn't help.

Maybe not in mud or on massive boulders where you want your tread to touch as much uneven surface as possible. Airing down also helps with cushioning the blow when you run a little faster in 4HI. But in the situations I mentioned previously, wide tires don't work well. Tread pattern is also important for specific scenarios. If you are just on dirt single track type roads, im going with the skinnies all day.

 

[Throwback]

You're saying wide tires don't work well in sand and snow?

 

[Jetboy]

So [MENTION=118321]Jetboy[/MENTION] posted about this in the previous pizza cutter thread.

The tall skinny tire will "squish" more at the same psi as the wider tire because both tires will create the same square inch footprint at the same psi with the same vehicle weight. The fatter tire will have a wider footprint and the skinny tire will have a long footprint.

Because of that the tall skinny tire will be compressed more vertically and have less ground clearance under the axle.

So really the only advantage of the pizza cutters is better highway fuel mileage.

This is all correct. It doesn't take a leap of faith or logic to reach the conclusion that - all else equal - wider tires = better offroad performance. There's a reason road bike tires don't look like mountain bike tires.

What needs to be recognized is that it's rarely a trade off between equal height tires. Usually given a vehicles drivetrain (power, gearing, axle strength), the choice is between a taller narrower tire or a shorter wider one. In that instance, the taller tire can often be a better option for certain types of use. A taller narrower tire is often a better choice in soft terrain than a shorter wider one. But not better than an equally tall wide one - assuming you have the power to push them.

I chose taller narrower tire over a shorter wider one in my last purchase. Although relatively similar in size I chose a 34x11.4 (285/75) over 33.4x11.9 (295/70). I agree that the two are pretty similar in fitment requirements for a 4runner, one is about half an inch taller, and one is half an inch wider. As between those options, I personally chose the taller narrower one because I think it'll be better for my use. Had there been a 35x10.5 tire in something not made by interco (I love me some interco tires - but not for a dial driver) I probably would have gone even taller an narrower.

BUT... that doesn't mean a 35x10.5 would be better than a 35x12.5 if they both fit. The 12.5 would be better in practically every offroad function.

And the narrower tire is often better for highway use as well. Taller narrower tires have lower rolling resistance and lower wind resistance. For mixed use it's often a better choice.

Finally, narrower tires are not better on snow or ice in almost any situation. Icelandic trucks look like they do for a reason. Those who speak should do. Those who do should speak. People who favor narrow tires on snow and ice have rarely ever used them on snow and ice. People who drive on snow and ice quickly learn that wider is better. The exceptions to the general rule are for highway driving scenarios - not off road. In slush for example a tire that doesn't hydroplane will be a better option, so a narrower tire may be preferable on slushy highways for example, just like a narrow tire will often be better in the rain to resist hydroplaning. But the narrow tire would not perform as well on a muddy road - unless the mud is only a few inches deep with sold soil underneath. So if your driving is primarily highway use and you occasionally encounter an unplowed road, or thin layer of mud on a logging road, narrow tire might work just as well for you without the highway penalty of wider tires. But if you're comparing which tire will be better for 3 feet of snow - it's not really even a question. Wider tire with lower ground pressure wins every time.

 

[HeartGuy]

Finally, narrower tires are not better on snow or ice in almost any situation. Icelandic trucks look like they do for a reason. Those who speak should do. Those who do should speak. People who favor narrow tires on snow and ice have rarely ever used them on snow and ice. People who drive on snow and ice quickly learn that wider is better.

This. Anyone ever use a snowshoe?

 

[Jetboy]

Here's a perfect demonstration. Both vehicles have almost the same curb weight. The tire height on the Ghe-0 are taller, but it's nowhere close to high centering. They would perform very similarly if they were the same height as the H1. Now, the H1 would perform much better if it aired down further. But it also would be even better with wider tires.
<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/poFPA9IfTgk" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[1jzgte]

Here's a perfect demonstration. Both vehicles have almost the same curb weight. The tire height on the Ghe-0 are taller, but it's nowhere close to high centering. They would perform very similarly if they were the same height as the H1. Now, the H1 would perform much better if it aired down further. But it also would be even better with wider tires.

so... is that a win for taller, narrow tires vs wider tires? confused

 

[dweh54]

Depends on the situation...I had 12.7 wide tires before...they are great off road where you want to float but terrible on the road...they followed the ruts that trucks made in the road and so required constant correction.

In the video, if there was solid footing under the snow (3-4 inches underneath), the narrow tire would be best because it would dig down to the firm surface and provide better traction.

But those same 12.7 wide tires I had were horrible on the road if there was only an inch or two or it was slushy...and they were Duratracs which have the snowflake. But off road where there was 12 inches of untouched snow, they were great.

 

[Jetboy]

so... is that a win for taller, narrow tires vs wider tires? confused

Win for wider tires. It's easy to see where two vehicles with the same weight differ primarily based on ground pressure. The bigger (wider) tires make all the difference.

If higher ground pressure were better - you'd run your tires at max psi because that would maximize ground pressure. I've never personally found that to increase traction. Is there a scenario where it would? Maybe. Studs in tires are basically localized high ground pressure points that have enough pressure to puncture the ice surface and create a keying effect. So it can happen in the extreme. But that's not something that is typically found off road.

 

[2016SR5 CO]

255/75/17

I had the 275/70/17 KO2's for a couple years. When I got new tires, I went with 255/75 in load range C.
The difference in ride quality is night and day! The truck feels 1000 lbs lighter and it has more grip now. The old ones still looked new with a lot of tread, but seemed laborious to drive and added a lot of drag I could really feel when I let off the gas. Also, wet traction on the road was horrible.

This has me intrigued. I've been reading that once you go above 33" (285/75/17) a re-gear really helps with power. Based on your statement about your rig feeling 1,000lbs lighter- would you even consider a regear, or would that be unnecessary?

 

[Groove1797]

Good afternoon gents!

This has been an age old debate and it will continue to be.

Tires will behave differently on dry, wet, loose, packed and ice surface types.

On dry roads, dirt and mud we want as much contact surface for grip. Wet roads, more contact patch but also tread design for removal of water.

When it comes to snow, it boils down to condition and if the tires are studded. Ice/hard pack will always be narrow and studded due to the concentration of pressure over a small surface area. A good reference to this is ice racing and winter rally.

Loose and deep snow, wider with large surface area style tread. Look at snow cats, sleds, Antarctic overland vehilces and vehicles with track conversions.

I don't think we can generalize on wider or narrower tire types without knowing the conditions.

 

[Groove1797]

so... is that a win for taller, narrow tires vs wider tires? confused

If we look at the snow type, it's definitely loose and deep. Wider tires will do better since a wider contact patch with prevent the H1 from sinking into the snow.

 

[fungusbrain]

This has me intrigued. I've been reading that once you go above 33" (285/75/17) a re-gear really helps with power. Based on your statement about your rig feeling 1,000lbs lighter- would you even consider a regear, or would that be unnecessary?

Don't know...I have the 255/75/17's, which are just over 32".

 

[Decipher]

Maybe not everyone is trying to use their vehicle as a way to compensate for "toughness."

No one is claiming they’re compensating for toughness, myself included. If I’m lifting my truck, though, I’m doing it for both aesthetics and performance, so looks do matter. This, again, is why more people don’t do this.

Great discussion here. I have looked into this sizing...there’s just not a lot of tire options I’m excited about.


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[flimmyflammy]

Im in the process of selecting a new set of tires and will probably go with the 275's but these will always be something to think about

 

[Capt.Canuck]

I had the 275/70/17 KO2's for a couple years. When I got new tires, I went with 255/75 in load range C.
The difference in ride quality is night and day! The truck feels 1000 lbs lighter and it has more grip now. The old ones still looked new with a lot of tread, but seemed laborious to drive and added a lot of drag I could really feel when I let off the gas. Also, wet traction on the road was horrible.

What changes have you noticed to your gas mileage? I recently took a fairly long road trip in my 4R and the mileage was piss poor.

 

[damthemainstream]

No one is claiming they’re compensating for toughness, myself included. If I’m lifting my truck, though, I’m doing it for both aesthetics and performance, so looks do matter. This, again, is why more people don’t do this.

Great discussion here. I have looked into this sizing...there’s just not a lot of tire options I’m excited about.


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Except for when you said that skinny tires don't look "tough"

 

[Tiki Joe]

These only come in Load "C" correct?
What PSI is everyone running?

 

[RCFJ]

Finally, narrower tires are not better on snow or ice in almost any situation. Icelandic trucks look like they do for a reason. Those who speak should do. Those who do should speak. People who favor narrow tires on snow and ice have rarely ever used them on snow and ice. People who drive on snow and ice quickly learn that wider is better.

Ya but your leaving out a big and critical point in your argument....wider tires are better if your goal is to float on top of snow and have no chance of digging down to hard ground (your YouTube video and snowshoe comment above) if you’re driving in snow and it’s not 3ft deep (aka almost all snow driving situations) a narrow tire that DOES NOT float on top but does dig town to traction WILL be better.

Edit: Nevermind read your full post from last page - laid it out pretty well. I would just emphasize that 95% of snow driving people do is on their streets or highways not offroad.

Also KOs (have only ran a KO not KO2, but probably about the same) are crap in snow regardless of size

 

[Teephud]

Before you use mountain bike tires as your argument, you should do your homework. Over the last few years the trend has been going to larger diameter wheels of the same width, 29" dia with 2.5" wide rules... Fat bikes, and the semi-fat bikes are just not as good.
I am very close to pulling the trigger on 255/75's