1engineer
Moderator
I have no problems with the LE drive system. My last 4 vehicles were AWD. I am curious though as to what "more" the LE can do than the SR5 or the TE in regards to the 4WD system. I like the part time 4WD for simplicity.
4 Runner quandry
- Thread starter snomobile
- Start date
I have no problems with the LE drive system. My last 4 vehicles were AWD. I am curious though as to what "more" the LE can do than the SR5 or the TE in regards to the 4WD system. I like the part time 4WD for simplicity.
snomobile
New member
Thank you
My hubbys silverado 2500 HD with the duramax and allison trans is part time 4wheel drive. It is the simplicity of it that we like. It is mostly the third row seat that is a bother for us. That is my 1st reason. I am going to look only and drive it just like KCcarguy pointed out. My limited may very well stay. I can only say a huge thank you to all of you so far so THANK YOU!!! :beer:
My hubbys silverado 2500 HD with the duramax and allison trans is part time 4wheel drive. It is the simplicity of it that we like. It is mostly the third row seat that is a bother for us. That is my 1st reason. I am going to look only and drive it just like KCcarguy pointed out. My limited may very well stay. I can only say a huge thank you to all of you so far so THANK YOU!!! :beer:
Can the SR5 or TE be driven in 4WD on dry pavement? No. The Limited can.
Can the SR5 or TE be driven in 4WD on pavement that changes from snow-covered to wet to dry and back again without changing in and out of 4WD? No. The Limited can. What is more simple to use? The SR5 or TE in such a situation when you have to switch in and out of 4WD? Or the Limited when you are simply in 4WD all the time? Clearly, the Limited.
When in 4WD, the SR5 and TE front and rear axles turn at the same speed. With the Limited, if you lock the center diff, the front and rear axles turn at the same speed -- behaving EXACTLY like the SR5 and TE 4WD system.
To put the SR5 or TE in 4WD low, you stop and push a lever. To put the Limited in 4WD low, you stop and turn a nob -- no added complexity there.
You want simplicity? In actual usage, the Limited's system is simpler. And there is no difference in maintenance.
Again, I have to ask, what is it that you don't like about the Limited's system? It is effectively the same system that has been used in the Land Cruiser for years. It is effectively the same system that was used in the 4th gen for years. It is well proven. The Torsen center diff has been used successfully for decades. Goodness, gracious, this isn't new technology, folks. There is no reason to be afraid of it. It works well.
If you don't like the third row seats, then just get out your wrenches and take them out! An hour pulling out the seats versus buying a whole new truck and getting killed on the trade-in value.
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ShaggyTDawg
New member
Why can't you drive in 4Hi on pavement? The manual actually says to drive at least 10 miles a month in 4Hi just to keep everything lubricated. You can also shift into 4Hi while doing under 50.
Edit:
Nm. Just watched the video from earlier in the thread. So how am I supposed to drive 10 miles a month in 4Hi if I can't do it on dry pavement?
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jca21
New member
find some MUD :reddance:
KCcarguy
New member
You can when going in a straight line. Since the front/ rear are turning at the same speed, you will cause binding when turning corners.
scanny
Senior Member
If you don't have gravel or dirt road close by you can turn on 4x4 in rain or find a straight paved road and drive in 4x4 mode. Just turn it off when road has a sharp turn. I got the impression that transfer case if more forgiving that torsen differential.
Huh???!!!!
Once again, with feeling, the Torsen center diff is designed to be used in 4WD on dry pavement. Just do not lock the center diff unless offroad.
scanny
Senior Member
I meant that transfer case IS more forgiving than differential. For
instance in manual says for part-time 4WD:
H4 (high speed position, four-wheel drive)
Greater traction than two wheel drive.
For when you experience a loss of power, such as wheel slipping.
Then for full-time 4WD:
H4L (high speed position, center differential locked)
For when your vehicle’s wheel gets stuck in a ditch or when you are
driving on a slippery or bumpy surface.
Then it says:
To prevent damage to the center differential
l For normal driving on dry and hard surface roads, unlock the center differential.
l Unlock the center differential after the wheels are out of the ditch or off the
slippery or bumpy surface.
l Do not lock or unlock the center differential when the vehicle is turning or
when its wheels are spinning freely off the ground.
There is nothing about transfer case in the manual, it warns ony about not switching to 4x4 when wheels are slipping. I think Toyota would put a warning for part-time too if it would be as critical.
rickwol
New member
Driving in the rain will not give you the necessary slippage in part-time 4wd to prevent binding.
scanny
Senior Member
Well I think it depends on rain. At least I used 4hi in rain when windshield wipers work constantly and didn't have any binding so far. In my opinion it's safer in 4x4 in heavy rain, especially on highway - I'd rather replace transfer case than total the truck. But I wouldn't do U-turns in 4hi and park in 2hi even in rain.
In other words I use 4hi as per Toyota manual:
"For when you experience a loss of power, such as wheel slipping." Powertrain warranty is 5 years after all.
rickwol
New member
Certainly how wet the roads are would be a factor. Everyone buys these vehicles for one reason or another. If you feel safer using 4wd when there is inclement/ raining weather, go for it. The slippier the surface the more probable the tire will slip and I suppose that might be ok for occasional use but personally I would not make a habit of it.. Otherwise I would have gone for AWD.
scanny
Senior Member
I agree that part-time 4wd should be used with discretion. But my point was that using it in heavy rain is OK and occasional use 4hi in wet weather to make 10 miles a month shouldn't hurt transfer case.
I was thinking about Limited with AWD, but then it costs too much here in Canada and it has too much chrome and some other features I don't care about, so I decided that I will switch to 4x4 when I need it. So far I had no problems but I'll report here when I'll have any issues with my truck : )
I like LE for AWD and autolights, other Limited features is pretty much waste of money to me.
There is absolutely no need to lock the center Torsen diff on a 5th Gen Limited in the rain. None, nada, zippo. There is absolutely no need to lock the center Torsen diff on a 5th Gen Limited on dry pavement. None, nadda, zippo. You're already in 4WD, and have torque going to both axles.
The assertion that the part-time system is stronger or more forgiving or simpler is completely unsupported.
I've put 110,000 miles on my 4th Gen. The Torsen is the best thing since sliced bread, IMNSHO.
The assertion that the part-time system is stronger or more forgiving or simpler is completely unsupported.
I've put 110,000 miles on my 4th Gen. The Torsen is the best thing since sliced bread, IMNSHO.
scanny
Senior Member
I didn't say that you need to lock torsen in rain. I didn't say that part time 4WD is better or worse than full time. It's just that based on Toyota manual I think that locked transfer case can withstand more abuse than locked Torsen. So it won't be a terrible mistake to lock part-time transfer case when it's just a little bit slippery and not as slippery like in a ditch, mud or deep snow.
That's it, prove me wrong : )
That's just complete baloney that is not supported by anything in the manual.
Furthermore, the abuse you cite - using 4WD in the rain - IS NOT ABUSE for the Torsen!!!!! It is normal operation. What would be abusive and possibly damaging to the part-time system is normal operation for the fulltime, and yet you think that means that somehow the part time is stronger, even though the very case that you cite, usage in the rain, can only damage the pat time system.
stanleybb50
New member
Too much anger here... lol
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scanny
Senior Member
Lol, I stated earlier in this tread quotes from the manual. When I say about abuse I say about driving locked on dry pavement or in mildly slippery conditions. Yes there's no need to lock for that, I know and not arguing : )
1engineer
Moderator
There is a LOT of misinformation in this thread. First @M1911: I personally, as I said, have no problems with the LE's 4WD system. When I said it is simpler I did not mean operation I meant componentry. Both systems are extremely robust.
Now, everyone seems to think the part time 4WD will break as soon as you engage it on a dry road. Wrong. What you DO NOT want to do is doughnuts in a paved parking lot on a dry sunny day while in 4HI or 4Low. In normal driving, say on interstate or out of the city on two lane highways the radius of the turns will not affect the normal operation hence them saying drive 10 miles a month even in summer. Just watch the full lock slow speed turns on dry pavement.
Who said wet pavement is not "slick" enough for 4HI operation? Actually, the coefficient of adhesion (Mu) for wet macadam (blacktop) is very close to the CoA of some hard pack earth and clay. To those who do not know the coefficient of adhesion is one of the things used to determine what force is required to break traction, or spin a rubber tire on different surfaces. That is also what will happen when turning in 4WD. Your tires, going around different radius turns, will want to "slip" due to the different radius. So the force required to slip the tire is transmitted back to the differential. So, on ice, almost no force required. On dry grooved concrete (worst case btw) more force required to slip.
Lastly, to those who have been four wheeling on rocks, there are times when all four wheels are on a hard surface and you still need 4HI or Low. I would like to think the engineers took that into account and designed for it.
Second lastly: Both 4WD systems only work when accelerating, not coasting or braking. Brakes and tires are the two most important components on a vehicle for keeping it under control in all conditions.
Now, everyone seems to think the part time 4WD will break as soon as you engage it on a dry road. Wrong. What you DO NOT want to do is doughnuts in a paved parking lot on a dry sunny day while in 4HI or 4Low. In normal driving, say on interstate or out of the city on two lane highways the radius of the turns will not affect the normal operation hence them saying drive 10 miles a month even in summer. Just watch the full lock slow speed turns on dry pavement.
Who said wet pavement is not "slick" enough for 4HI operation? Actually, the coefficient of adhesion (Mu) for wet macadam (blacktop) is very close to the CoA of some hard pack earth and clay. To those who do not know the coefficient of adhesion is one of the things used to determine what force is required to break traction, or spin a rubber tire on different surfaces. That is also what will happen when turning in 4WD. Your tires, going around different radius turns, will want to "slip" due to the different radius. So the force required to slip the tire is transmitted back to the differential. So, on ice, almost no force required. On dry grooved concrete (worst case btw) more force required to slip.
Lastly, to those who have been four wheeling on rocks, there are times when all four wheels are on a hard surface and you still need 4HI or Low. I would like to think the engineers took that into account and designed for it.
Second lastly: Both 4WD systems only work when accelerating, not coasting or braking. Brakes and tires are the two most important components on a vehicle for keeping it under control in all conditions.
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