4-Runner Sudden Acceleration

[blackmax]

The guy had brake fade. He probably used the brakes to maintain the speed limit when the throttle was stuck. Stand on your brakes for a few minutes and they will fail. I doubt a Prius comes with performance ceramic brake pads.

The CHP officer said he could smell the brakes down the whole road.


I had to panic stop my 4Runner once from highway speed to 0. It worked, but after that the brakes were almost worthless because they were so hot. I had to let them cool down.

Very very very unlikely. Prius has AMAZING brakes, due to the fact there is the typical 4-wheel disc, PLUS the regenerative brake, which does not fade. Next, the engine can produce a PEAK of a whopping 134 hp. Brakes make it STOP and there is no fade when there is no friction.

Utter and COMPLETE nonsense. You can get your pedal stuck on a non-factory matt.....that's it ( I have, many times). Key, Brake, Neutral or an IQ above __ take care of this issue.

 

[offshorebear]

So a Prius can't have brake fade? The cop smelled the brakes and saw the brake lights on. I can't say I've ever driven a Prius, but I have driven my share of cars, and every single one of them was susceptible to brake fade. I imagine the guy's throttle became stuck and he tried to hold the car at the speed limit with the brakes. This may have worked for 30 seconds or a half hour, but eventually they fail and he was in the situation we all heard on the 911 tapes.

My 4Runner has OEM brake pads/rotors and they don't make much dust and they last forever, but they don't have very good performance. I imagine all Toyota brake pads are similar.

 

[bradj]

The guy had brake fade. He probably used the brakes to maintain the speed limit when the throttle was stuck.

Maintain the speed limit??? So he could still get where he was going in time? Why wouldn't you just stop the out of control car if its actually out of control.

 

[offshorebear]

He was a Prius owner from CA... I won't pretend to know how his mind works. But there is a lot of proof that his brakes were toast.

 

[blackmax]

Maintain the speed limit??? So he could still get where he was going in time? Why wouldn't you just stop the out of control car if its actually out of control.

Exactly, it's absolute and complete nonsense. Laughable actually.

 

[Rivalsock]

He was a Prius owner from CA... I won't pretend to know how his mind works. But there is a lot of proof that his brakes were toast.

Some other quotes from various news stories about this guy:

"During the two 911 calls, Sikes ignored many of the dispatcher's questions, saying later that he had to put his phone on the seat to keep his hands on the wheel. Leighann Parks, a 24-year-old dispatcher, repeatedly told him to throw the car into neutral but got no answers."

and the best one

"Neibert told Sikes after the CHP caught up with him to shift to neutral but the driver shook his head no. Sikes told reporters he didn't go into neutral because he worried the car would flip. The driver rolled down the window and Neibert told him to apply both brakes. Sikes said he lifted his buttocks from the seat to press the floor brake, an account backed by the officer."

So he called the cops for help, then ignored what they told him to do -- even shaking his head "No" to the responding officer. The best is in one interview he said he thought he might put it in reverse (which, obviously, is not possible -- the prius just beeps at you and shifts to neutral instead). But in a different interview he didn't want to put it in neutral because he worried the car would FLIP?!?! Someone please explain the physics of that...

Another inconsistency is that he says that cars were passing him "left and right" while he was going over 90 MPH; which is the reason he gave for his fear of someone 'rear-ending' him. I also like how in all his interviews he is wearing his "Corvette Owners Club" jacket.

Also, the other CHP officer that died in the crash was in a Lexus that investigations showed were caused by a stuck floor mat. I know it was a loaner car for them. I do not know if they attempted to shift into neutral, but I do know it was a push-button ignition so they probably did not know that you needed to hold the button down to turn the car off. Another, albeit tragic, example of making sure you understand how to use a machine before you trust your life to it.

 

[offshorebear]

I don't know what the Prius owner's motives were, but the CHP officer said he smelled his brakes while catching up to him. His brakes were toast. For whatever reason, driver error or magical fairy dust, his brakes were faded. It's a confirmed fact.

As for going into neutral in a Prius, I don't know how to do that. In the 4Runner it's dead nuts easy. From what I read in a Prius, it means you have to hold the shifter joystick between D and R and to the side - it's not intuitive, and to a novice, idiot, unsafe driver, maybe they were afraid that they would jam the car in R, I don't know. I wouldn't drive a car that I didn't know how to control, but then again, this is a driver form CA.

 

[Rivalsock]

As for going into neutral in a Prius, I don't know how to do that. In the 4Runner it's dead nuts easy. From what I read in a Prius, it means you have to hold the shifter joystick between D and R and to the side - it's not intuitive

I disagree, this is the gearshift in his prius. If he can put it in any other gear he can put it in neutral. Just push the little magical stick towards the N.

 

[offshorebear]

I disagree, this is the gearshift in his Prius. If he can put it in any other gear he can put it in neutral. Just push the little magical stick towards the N.

Like I said I don't know about the Prius gear shift. His model had the gear shift arched over top of a 12 volt plug, I don't think that's what your picture showed. I know the Prius doesn't have a normal gear shift lever, but its more like a joystick.

I'm not disagreeing that he was in idiot who didn't know how to drive his car, but he did have a throttle stuck open, and his brakes didn't stop the throttle.

 

[Maz]

So a Prius can't have brake fade? The cop smelled the brakes and saw the brake lights on. I can't say I've ever driven a Prius, but I have driven my share of cars, and every single one of them was susceptible to brake fade. I imagine the guy's throttle became stuck and he tried to hold the car at the speed limit with the brakes. This may have worked for 30 seconds or a half hour, but eventually they fail and he was in the situation we all heard on the 911 tapes.

My 4Runner has OEM brake pads/rotors and they don't make much dust and they last forever, but they don't have very good performance. I imagine all Toyota brake pads are similar.

You're using logic offshore...which is irrelevant to people with an agenda. In this case having taken the repeated stance that unwanted acceleration can not exist. Therefore anything that happens subsequently must be:

A. A lie to set up a lawsuit

B. Physically impossible

C. Couldn't have happened as reported

For example among other wild tales we have someone who says he stopped a car from 50 MPH in a parking lot. He then makes an enormous leap of impossible logic while swearing he "proved" anyone can stop from any speed no matter how many cars they're dodging. We also have the fantastical claim the UAW is behind the thousands of owners who've reported this problem to Toyota since at least 2004. A conspiracy claim so bizarre it makes black heliocoptors seem tame by comparison.

Or this latest wild interpretation where the known facts are a man on an uphill grade is told by the CHP to put on his parking brake along with his regular brakes. The officer can see he's off his seat meaning he's pushing himself up from somewhere. The car slowly reduces speed from about 90 to 30 at which time he's able to get the engine turned off. The officer reports the man brakes smelled as if they were burning, and his brake lights were on.

This could not, by previous declaration, be uninteneded acceleration since we're told that doesn't exist. So an explanation is offered he must have been "standing on the accelerator." Now it would take both the most flexible and the most talented stunt driver in the world to stand on the accelerator while simultaneously slowing down with your brake lights and creating burning brakes in the process. However as said in the beginning....logic is irrelevant when you're selling an agenda.

Maybe the real story here is we don't know the real story. Moreover we've only heard the details of a handfull of the thousands of cases that have reported to Toyota over the last six plus years. We also know Toyota first tried to insist this was all a floor mat problem, then changed course and said it was also a gas pedal problem, and then changed the story again recently to something else. Lastly we know Toyota wrote a memo lauding their saving of millions of dollars by convincing inspectors to agree to a heavily restricted recall. A recall that didn't include hundreds of thousands of cars they are in the middle of recalling now.

People are entitled to their own opinion, and if their opinion is Toyota is blameless because this is a made up story so be it. However the facts we've learned so far make that version very, very hard to buy into. Furthermore every time more news comes out, it looks more and more like Toyota lost sight of the very thing that made them so popular in the first place; Putting the customer and the quality of the product first above everything else.

 

[Rivalsock]

You're using logic offshore...which is irrelevant to people with an agenda. In this case having taken the repeated stance that unwanted acceleration can not exist.

I don't think anyone has said that the unintended acceleration cannot or does not exist. In this case, yes the officer smelled the brakes and after investigation the brakes had very little material left.

But it is also fact in this case that the driver ignored and rejected, more than once, the directions to shift his car into neutral as well as originally refusing to turn his car of for fear of getting rear-ended by the people passing him "left and right" while he was doing over 90. In the end the brakes only slowed the car, and probably only because he used the e-brake and his rear brakes weren't in the overheated fade state that his front where; but what ended the situation was him turning the vehicle off.

Regardless of how or why the unintended, prolonged acceleration is occurring the fact is if it happens the resolution to the problem is extremely simple. Now if it turns out that people cannot shift to neutral because the tranny cannot sync the gears or whatever and the cars are failing to shut-off that is a different story.

But people should know how easy it is to diffuse that situation if they are going to get into a vehicle, especially after all this crap in the news.

Ignorance is not an excuse.

 

[Jed]

Maybe they were really driving 50 in a parking lot like Jed and the heliocoptor footage of the aftermath was faked? Or maybe Car and Driver has compromising pictures of the CHP officer who was on the scene. Oh wait isn't the CHP unionized...he's probably in on it. Besides I heard he has family in the UAW and we know they're all criminals. By the way isn't the driver related to a lawyer somewhere? What do you want to bet the CHP officer who died with his brakes on fire was standing on the gas pedal too. 10 to 1 odds that copter taking the video was painted black!

There's got to be a plot here somewhere if we just keep looking we'll find it. After all this is a huge conspiracy and everybody is in on it!

Oh sorry, I forgot to add the all important hahahahahahah part.

Hmmm... I thought you had me on ignore. Another one of your lies. Pathetic. You have zero credibility. No wonder you believe that nutjob's story.

 

[Jed]

Maintain the speed limit??? So he could still get where he was going in time? Why wouldn't you just stop the out of control car if its actually out of control.

Exactly. Anyone who finds himself in such a situation would (or should) immediately step hard on the brakes...it's a typical reaction for any driver. Right pedal=go, left pedal=stop. Pretty basic, right? Unfortunately it's not always that simple or easy for all people. They can get confused and mix up right and left...happens all the time. But the few anti-Toyota people here just can't admit that a driver could POSSIBLY be at fault.

That said, there are Toyota crashes EVERY DAY that are the fault of the driver. The only difference now is that if someone crashes a Toyota today, he or she can claim the car was possessed and uncontrollable. And the media will be all over it like flies on a pile of crap.

 

[wjamyers]

No I don't. I saw the interview and the CHP officer said he observed the driver was clearly up out of his seat. I can't quote him verbatim, however the words he used were very close to he could see the driver standing on his brakes.

correctomundo. the cop can confirm that the guy APPEARED TO or WAS PRETENDING TO stand on the brakes.

completely meaningless if this is a hoax which it sure looks like.

has anyone checked the drivers political affiliation/associations? :dancin:

 

[stan06]

That is what the gear shift in my wife's Prius looks like. The "B" setting is a form of regenerative braking for long downhill runs. It puts the car in neutral and the generation of electricity creates rolling resistance, even without applying the brake pedal. I don't know what the precise mechanism for electrical generation is, but I suspect it makes the electric motor act as an alternator.

 

[JB.]

Rampaging Toyotas obscure highway safety strides Ahead of the Curve - MarketWatch

"From 2000 to the end of January 2010, the Transportation Department received 2,600 complaints of sudden acceleration from Toyota drivers.

This from a manufacturer that sold more than a million and a half vehicles during an off year in 2009 and more than that the year before when it unseated General Motors Co. as the world's biggest automaker.

By comparison, Ford Motor Co. has drawn almost 1,000 more complaints for the same problem over the same period, and General Motor Co. has triggered 2,250 complaints from drivers alleging unwanted acceleration.

The statistics don't stop there. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety shows that Toyotas from model years 2006-2008, most of which are covered in the recalls, generally result in fewer collision insurance claims than the competition."

 

[Maz]

Rarely do we get all the story in a short news piece, and there usually reasonable questions that can't be answered due to lack of information. There's nothing wrong with being skeptical, and questions are a good thing. However have you noticed that anytime we get any story about a Toyota having acceleration problems, certain people immediatly leap to "prove" it's part of some plot. Have you also noticed these same people are strangly quiet when reasonable questions surface regarding Toyota's action to limit recalls and multiple changes of their ongoing explainations. Maybe, just maybe there's good reason for skepticism and hard questions on both sides of the scale.

It's likely at this time no particular story is complete, nor should be believed implicitly. Not the San Diego driver who called 911, nor the CHP officer who died, nor Toyota having three times said they've identified and solved this issue. I previously wrote "the real story here is we don't know the real story." "Moreover we've only heard the details of a handfull of the thousands of cases that have reported to Toyota over the last six plus years."

The point I'm trying to convey is that we have some people making sweeping statements they claim must apply to all of these reports. Claims they present as both factual and applying to all, yet opon further inspection are clearly a personal interpretation of the handfull of cases getting publicized.

Such as Jed making the sweeping statement he had "proven" ANY car could be stopped, even if it did have sudden acceleration. This based on driving 50 MPH in an empty parking lot, then stopping while leaving the accelerator pedal down. No chance of brake fade, no other traffic, no zooming up to speeds approaching 100 MPH. Using that kind of unscientific non-comparison you might be able to "prove" just about anything.

Rivalsock you said you said you didn't think anyone said sudden accleration doesn't exist. With no intent to doubt your genuine belief, actually that's been said several times along they way. Just as recently as yesterday in this thread. blackmax, our union basher, wrote "it seems evident that there is no such thing as out of control cars due to accelerators. NO SUCH THING."

I don't believe every story of unintended acceleration is all Toyota's fault, nor every time it occurs it's all the driver's fault. Some claims of sudden acceleration may well be bogus, but taking one or two that appear suspicious and extrapolating that into "fact" all off the thousands of cases are bogus is impossibly naive. In the final analysis it seems there is simply not enough information available to make these sweeping all purpose statements we keep hearing.

 

[Jed]

Rampaging Toyotas obscure highway safety strides Ahead of the Curve - MarketWatch

"From 2000 to the end of January 2010, the Transportation Department received 2,600 complaints of sudden acceleration from Toyota drivers.

This from a manufacturer that sold more than a million and a half vehicles during an off year in 2009 and more than that the year before when it unseated General Motors Co. as the world's biggest automaker.

By comparison, Ford Motor Co. has drawn almost 1,000 more complaints for the same problem over the same period, and General Motor Co. has triggered 2,250 complaints from drivers alleging unwanted acceleration.

The statistics don't stop there. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety shows that Toyotas from model years 2006-2008, most of which are covered in the recalls, generally result in fewer collision insurance claims than the competition."

Thanks for posting that information. I was actually trying to find hard data from manufacturers other than Toyota to illustrate that these complaints happen all the time across the board, not just with Toyota.

Again, this serves as more proof to convince me that there's more to the story than appears at first. It really makes you wonder how the media jumped on the Toyota bandwagon and ignores similar complaints against other manufacturers. I wonder what the real motivation is here...

 

[Jed]

Such as Jed making the sweeping statement he had "proven" ANY car could be stopped, even if it did have sudden acceleration.

I never made such a statement. I simply said that my own unscientific tests supported the tests of Car and Driver, where they were able to stop a car using its brakes while the engine was under full throttle. What's so hard to understand about that? I never said that I had "proven" that "any" car could be stopped. Nope, never said that at all. Perhaps you have a reading comprehension problem.

 

[Jed]

I don't believe every story of unintended acceleration is all Toyota's fault, nor every time it occurs it's all the driver's fault. Some claims of sudden acceleration may well be bogus, but taking one or two that appear suspicious and extrapolating that into "fact" all off the thousands of cases are bogus is impossibly naive. In the final analysis it seems there is simply not enough information available to make these sweeping all purpose statements we keep hearing.

Wow, this is the most intelligent thing I've ever seen you post. I agree with just about everything, but again you fail to realize that not EVERYONE (myself included) is making sweeping statements. I've said time and time again that Toyota may have a legitimate problem on their hands. I also said that there will be liars who come out of the woodwork to take advantage of the media firestorm against Toyota. So stop acting like you're the only rational person on the forum.... because up until this point, you weren't being very rational at all.