4Runner alternator upgrade (gen 5)

[rigtec]

Wow - Big balla' steppin' it up to FOUR 15"s!!! Nice!!! Love that low end!!!

Hi Randy,

Here's a couple pics to see what four 15's look like in a Gen5:

"And here's processing below..."

If you're interested you can read the build thread link..."Just for fun"! :usa2: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/174196-got-bass.html

"I still need to look into those Alpine HU's, don't know which one would be best..."

 

[Randyman...]

Killer! Reminds me a little of my '87 4Runner install that had two 18" JBL's facing up like that. I seemed to get the best cabin gain (aka: free bass) with the woofers all the way back against the rear tailgate and rear window with the woofers facing up. This basically acts like a "1/4 space loading" similar to placing a sub in the corner of a room.

Fasten your seatbelts and crank that volume knob!!!

 

[rigtec]

Killer! Reminds me a little of my '87 4Runner install that had two 18" JBL's facing up like that. I seemed to get the best cabin gain (aka: free bass) with the woofers all the way back against the rear tailgate and rear window with the woofers facing up. This basically acts like a "1/4 space loading" similar to placing a sub in the corner of a room.

Fasten your seatbelts and crank that volume knob!!!

I know this is crazy! I actually ended up pulling one box out; couldn't even shop for a gallon of milk w/o arranging to use a different vehicle!

 

[rigtec]

Killer! Reminds me a little of my '87 4Runner install that had two 18" JBL's facing up like that.

Be nice to have a look at the '87 4R... do you have any pix?

This basically acts like a "1/4 space loading" similar to placing a sub in the corner of a room.

I get it, much like a 1/4 wave res (or low-end horn); possibly 12 to 15 db of free gain! So 90db 1w/1m can become 120db with very little effort... 256 or 512 watts?? I have a very large pro sound bass (bass guitar) rig for when I'm playing on-stage; (2) 18 inch low-end pro drivers in two "W-bins" driven by two "Crown" power-tech 3 power amps (1500 watts true rms ea.) The bass W-bins are 104db @ 1w/1m sensitivity each) and can reach 140db max when coupled!

P.S: I know I jacked this tread myself. But it was my sub-woofer system that caused me to need the larger power plant (Alternator) in the first place; which is why I started this thread!

ALL THINGS ARE RELATIVE! Cheers!

 

[Randyman...]

No pics handy, but the '87 T4R is still mine! It's been parked in storage since 2001 awaiting a full restoration and V8 conversion. One of these days... The box and 18" subs are still in the back - I can snap some pics next time I go visit her She's a 4x4 5-Speed with sunroof in shiny red (removed all the decals) with a modified 22RE (LC Engineering EFI Head for starters), but has a cracked block (thus it's been parked). Love that thing!!!

You got it on the loading comment - very similar to horn loading a driver, but not quite as drastic of an acoustic impedance conversion.

Big musician here, too! Drummer (32 years on X-Mas!) and audio engineer of the most obsessive kind

You can likely appreciate my JamRoom/Studio. 4 DIY JBL 2241G 18"s (can see the top one of each stacked pair in the corners) and 48 analog ins and 48 analog outs (plus another 80 digital I/O's) on the DAW PC as a starter

Just a little bit of OCD going on - and it's MINE ALL MINE - Whuwaaaah! :guitar3:

Bass is my 2nd instrument, but I'm not that good at it - I'm much better at recording the bass than I am at playing the bass I'll tear up a drum set though...

Small world (seems to happen often!).

And the Thread-jack continues :cheers:

 

[rigtec]

Small world (seems to happen often!). And the Thread-jack continues :cheers:

Yes indeedy!!! When I first opened up your post, and slowly scrolled downward and started to see your "jam room", I accidentally let out a little scream saying... HOE SHIT!! Hahaha!



The two 18's that are in those two "Acoustic 301's" are from "Eighteen Sound", a driver a lot like the "JBL 2242H"; model # 18LW-1400. These drivers are very high-end, 98db@ 1w/1m, 1400 watts continuous, have an Fs (free air resonance freq) of 28hz and a 10db crest factor! I love this stuff! Definitely OCD! :thumb3:

These two cabs are a part of a "BI-Amp". I have a couple of Electro-voice 4X10's which reproduce the low-mids to low freq; no prob being heard! Like you I started playing a long time ago; back in 1971 and then just started gigging! Haven't played much lately; record R&B/Jazz in the studio on occasion w/friends but that's it! "Small world Randy! Cheers!

 

[ovmiowa]

Alternator replacement over $1,000, 2010 4R TE

Hello Everyone,

My beloved 2010 TE needs it alternator replaced. Dealer says bearing is going bad. I can hear a whining sound coupled to the engine revs. A new alternator is $745, new belt is $106 and labor is $136 - with tax $1,053!!

Was your upgraded alternator less expensive than an OEM replacement?

Many thanks!

 

[rigtec]

Hello Everyone,

My beloved 2010 TE needs it alternator replaced. Dealer says bearing is going bad. I can hear a whining sound coupled to the engine revs. A new alternator is $745, new belt is $106 and labor is $136 - with tax $1,053!!

Was your upgraded alternator less expensive than an OEM replacement?

Many thanks!

Hi ovmiowa,

I think I paid about $660 for my DC Engineering 270XP High Output Alternator. The dealership's prices are "Out-of-control!"

 

[Lester Lugnut]

Dealer says bearing is going bad. I can hear a whining sound coupled to the engine revs. A new alternator is $745, new belt is $106 and labor is $136 - with tax $1,053!!

- Remove Alternator
- Take to a legit Auto Electrical Rebuilder
- My guess is $100 - $150 will get you new bearings + brushes(do it while its off the vehicle) + labor

 

[Swarty]

Update

Hi ovmiowa,

I think I paid about $660 for my DC Engineering 270XP High Output Alternator. The dealership's prices are "Out-of-control!"

Hey Rig,

How's everything gone since install? Any issues? Thinking of going dual battery but everything I've heard says the system can barely top off one battery in reasonable time.

 

[rigtec]

Hey Rig,

How's everything gone since install? Any issues? Thinking of going dual battery but everything I've heard says the system can barely top off one battery in reasonable time.

Hi Swarty,

All things are just fine here! You've heard correctly, the stock 130A alternator can't keep up when pushed hard e.g., Winch, refrig, special lighting systems... etc (wasn't designed to); you can actually watch the voltage sag to battery voltage when using a 'cigarette lighter adaptable' volt meter with a serious load on... "found that out when I still only had one power amp on-board"! And you know when using a dual battery set-up, you've got to have something to feed them or there's no point in having them both. I would definitely recommend the DC Power Engineering XP-270 to charge that dual batt set-up, "Here's a test video to check out: https://youtu.be/1J9SkmprZm8 Best of success Swarty!

 

[rigtec]

Hey [MENTION=88975]Swarty[/MENTION],

I meant to leave a link to 'DC Power Engineering':https://youtu.be/CMWlM2NxygU "They do have alternators for 5th gen 4R's, but their catalog doesn't show them". If you do order one, just call'em by phone; there made to order.

 

[Swarty]

Why 140A fuse on a 270A alt?

Hi Swarty,

All things are just fine here! You've heard correctly, the stock 140A alternator can't keep up when pushed hard e.g., Winch, refrig, special lighting systems... etc (wasn't designed to); you can actually watch the voltage sag to battery voltage when using a 'cigarette lighter adaptable' volt meter with a serious load on... "found that out when I still only had one power amp on-board"! And you know when using a dual battery set-up, you've got to have something to feed them or there's no point in having them both. I would definitely recommend the DC Power Engineering XP-270 to charge that dual batt set-up, "Here's a test video to check out: https://youtu.be/1J9SkmprZm8 Best of success Swarty!

This thing got a little long and I gave up looking for this answer.
The oreig equipment had a 130A alt so 140A fuse makes sense. How does the 140a fuse not blow with the 270 A alt? Is it because you have two returns to the battery so the current is split? Should the path to the accessories bypass the fuse? In other words from my pic does the fuse go in position A or B? and why? I'm an ME so a little of this stuff is outside my normal realm but instinctively I feel like it should be in position A on the circuit. I feel like this is where you move it to when you replaced the fuse with a circuit breaker albeit for seemingly unrelated reasons.

 

[Vwright14]

- Remove Alternator
- Take to a legit Auto Electrical Rebuilder
- My guess is $100 - $150 will get you new bearings + brushes(do it while its off the vehicle) + labor

Not everyone has access to a rebuilder......there isn't a decent one within 100 miles of me lol. Hit up the caraudio.com forum for info on a quality aftermarket unit.

 

[Yota06TRD]

I don't know if this was brought up. On my 2006 Tacoma TRD Offroad had a 160 or 140amp Alt installed in it. It was the factory option for the Offroad.

Has one tried to install one of those? Or see if one would fit?

 

[Swarty]

Not the end of the world.

Not everyone has access to a rebuilder......there isn't a decent one within 100 miles of me lol. Hit up the caraudio.com forum for info on a quality aftermarket unit.

Most auto part stores will let you swap out for reman that they ship in. It's just a core charge. The markup is usually not bad, usually includes a warranty and definitely nowhere near Toyota's price.

 

[rigtec]

This thing got a little long and I gave up looking for this answer.
The oreig equipment had a 130A alt so 140A fuse makes sense. How does the 140a fuse not blow with the 270 A alt? Is it because you have two returns to the battery so the current is split? Should the path to the accessories bypass the fuse? In other words from my pic does the fuse go in position A or B? and why? I'm an ME so a little of this stuff is outside my normal realm but instinctively I feel like it should be in position A on the circuit. I feel like this is where you move it to when you replaced the fuse with a circuit breaker albeit for seemingly unrelated reasons.

I see your concern but think of it this way... There are Two separate circuits. There's the stock electrical system circuit having a 140A fuse that will never see a load more than that which was assigned to it by Toyota/factory. Then, there's an auxiliary accessory circuit that comes straight off of the battery using parallel HOT and GND 4ga feed lines which help to average the full load. It too has a 140A in-line safety Brkr which feeds the battery, winch, special lighting, refrigerator, 120V inverter... etc. Plus each accessory has it's own appropriately sized In-line fuse... Hence the need for the 'High output' alternator which handles both loads; stock and auxiliary. But you NEVER impose any additional accessories on the truck's stock electrical system by not tapping into the truck's fuse/Rly boxes. Make more sense? I'm sure that I'm not consuming more than 160A TOTAL at any time, but the stock 130A alternator couldn't do that by itself so I didn't wanna push it that hard.

Cheers!

 

[Swarty]

I understand as far as power to the battery.

I see your concern but think of it this way... There are Two separate circuits. There's the stock electrical system circuit having a 140A fuse that will never see a load more than that which was assigned to it by Toyota/factory. Then, there's an auxiliary accessory circuit that comes straight off of the battery using parallel HOT and GND 4ga feed lines which help to average the full load. It too has a 140A in-line safety

I had to draw it out and look at all the directions current flowed depending on the situation before it sunk in but I've got it now.

 

[rigtec]

I had to draw it out and look at all the directions current flowed depending on the situation before it sunk in..."

Me too! hahaha!

 

[rigtec]

New Precautions

Greetings fellow 'techies and analyst's

As some of you folks may have observed from this thread, I've OVER-BUILT this 4Runner's electrical system platform to a reasonable extent; giving particular attention to the area of 'Stiff voltage mains & Fast Recovery'; as opposed to the higher amperage availability of a Dual battery system. Last week I located and ordered a suitable AGM dry cell battery (850-CCA), and when it arrived (this week) I installed it. The one that I choose was the "Odyssey EXTREME" '35-PC1400'

ODYSSEY Batteries - 35-PC1400T-A

At this point however, I have no future goals or plans for any 'foreseeable' electrical system development. I did however, make a necessary 'schematic change' to the alternator output triangle. I discovered this potential electrical flaw purely by accident while re-analyzing the truck's electrical (fuse) protection strategies; take a look at the first diagram below:



The circuit in question is traced in yellow. When I first drafted this circuit I thought to protect it; not the alternator or battery, but the wiring itself. Theory is... should the main electrical output conductor (everything connected to the B Term at the alternator output lug), become severed in a catastrophic front-end collision, an In-line fuse would then offer the heavy gauge wiring an opportunity to 'Disconnect' should the positive and negative poles become united. This was Toyota's approach when they schemed the 140A Main fuse at the "Engine room" Rly/fuse panel. Well... who was I to (in effect) install a "Hard Jumper-wire" across this important safety feature. But what I realized the other day was (to me) FAR more important; see the Auxiliary triangle below:



PROBLEM: IF by chance... my 140A auxiliary fuse were to "Blow" for any reason when I'm running the 'VERY HIGH AMPERE' auxiliary loads... what will happen is: The load that was on the aux circuit at the time of the breaker trip will attempt to 'Reconnect with the alternator' (FEED BACK) through the "Main Rly/Fuse-box" under the hood, and directly through the 140A 'Alternator fuse'; taking it out without question! Today... while installing my odyssey 850-CCA agm, I removed the 'rockford*fosgate in-line 140A circuit Brkr and replaced the entire auxiliary line with a 21 inch, 4 gauge Hardwire! As long as that aux line stays where it belongs everything will be fine: ...Just to be safe!



Rgds!