4th Gen Suspension Options/FAQ

[Rodtheviking]

I spent the better part of last weekend installing 5100s, OME 884s in front, and Toytec Superflex coils in the rear. When all was said and done, the lift was about 3.5" in front and 3" in back. I'm happy with the outcome, but that's a lot more lift than I was expecting.

Based on what I've read here, the alignment went about as well as can be expected and my caster is out of spec. I'm at 0.30° on the left and 0.35° on the right. An ideal value would apparently be between 2.47° and 3.97°.

My question is, just how bad is this? The truck seems like it drives fine. I'm planning to put 275/70/17 KO2s on within a few weeks. Should I be concerned about rubbing, or would it be okay to hold off on new UCAs for a while? I don't have a lot of extra money at the moment and I'm not thrilled at the idea of immediately taking everything back apart to install new stuff.

Keep in mind your suspension has sagged over the years. The measurements they give are over stock height, factory fresh.

Give it a couple of weeks of driving, they will settle in, then get the alignment done.

 

[4RunnerIdiot]

I'm going to live up to my name and ask a really dumb question:

When people talk about replacing UCAs to be able to get alignment in spec after a suspension lift, is it just the front UCAs? I pretty much only see mention of replacing the front ones, and lift kits that include UCAs only include two. Are the back UCAs different, physically? Do they generally need to be replaced for alignment?

 

[matt922]

I spent the better part of last weekend installing 5100s, OME 884s in front, and Toytec Superflex coils in the rear. When all was said and done, the lift was about 3.5" in front and 3" in back. I'm happy with the outcome, but that's a lot more lift than I was expecting.

Based on what I've read here, the alignment went about as well as can be expected and my caster is out of spec. I'm at 0.30° on the left and 0.35° on the right. An ideal value would apparently be between 2.47° and 3.97°.

My question is, just how bad is this? The truck seems like it drives fine. I'm planning to put 275/70/17 KO2s on within a few weeks. Should I be concerned about rubbing, or would it be okay to hold off on new UCAs for a while? I don't have a lot of extra money at the moment and I'm not thrilled at the idea of immediately taking everything back apart to install new stuff.

Another problem with stock UCAs are the camber specs once lifted. I think mine had a bit of positive camber which would eventually wear the outside edges quite a bit and reduce the contact patch when cornering. Your camber may be OK, but that may also be why your caster is so far off. Most i've seen are able to maintain around 2 degrees of caster with a lift.

Usually the low caster makes the vehicle wander on the interstate and requires a lot more active steering from the driver to keep the truck in the lane while driving along. Luckily to install new UCAs you only have to remove the UCA itself.

I'm going to live up to my name and ask a really dumb question:

When people talk about replacing UCAs to be able to get alignment in spec after a suspension lift, is it just the front UCAs? I pretty much only see mention of replacing the front ones, and lift kits that include UCAs only include two. Are the back UCAs different, physically? Do they generally need to be replaced for alignment?

The rear suspension is completely different. The front is a double wishbone and the rear uses links to keep the solid axle in place.

The rear doesn't really require any attention when lifting and is not adjustable by means of an alignment technician.

 

[BaconHound]

Keep in mind your suspension has sagged over the years. The measurements they give are over stock height, factory fresh.

Give it a couple of weeks of driving, they will settle in, then get the alignment done.

Another problem with stock UCAs are the camber specs once lifted. I think mine had a bit of positive camber which would eventually wear the outside edges quite a bit and reduce the contact patch when cornering. Your camber may be OK, but that may also be why your caster is so far off. Most i've seen are able to maintain around 2 degrees of caster with a lift.

Usually the low caster makes the vehicle wander on the interstate and requires a lot more active steering from the driver to keep the truck in the lane while driving along. Luckily to install new UCAs you only have to remove the UCA itself.

Thanks for the feedback! It sounds like it would be a good idea to do this sooner than later, with just one more alignment after the UCAs have been installed and the truck has settled a little bit.

 

[Jason B]

My wife's 2003 SR5 got the 2/1 Cornfed kit from Burtman plus Bilstein 5100's and kept the stock springs. Then I swapped the tires for BF Goodrich KO2's. I could not be happier. I did not want to rely on the adjustable front shocks for the lift, because my sons 4Runner was lifted by the previous owner by using adjustable shocks and no spacers. It rides really stiff compared to my wife's. Here is a before and after on my wife's 4Runner. We drive this car everywhere, take it on long road trips and it handles awesome.

[MENTION=214573]asbill71[/MENTION] Glad you like it, and happy to help ya out. I've been selling more and more of our spacer kits to owners with Bilsteins do to the same issue you mentioned.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/229041-lift-leveling-kit-holiday-season-sale-8.html

(also, we make the DRIVER SIDE REAR spacer THICKER, to fix and get ride of the driver side lean that these trucks have, mainly do to gas tank and battery being on that side, which i don't think anyone else offers)

 

[4RunnerIdiot]

So as I'm looking into all my options for suspension, I've also been thinking that I want to replace all the ball joints and bushings. Searching around this forum, I see people saying that it's just better to buy an entire new control arm than pay almost as much for new bushings, ball joints, and deal with installing them.

Looking at rockauto, the OEM-quality front lowers are about $140 each. The "economy" lowers are $65 each.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to get JBA UCAs, so that's not really part of the equation.

I'm slightly confused about the rear arms, looking at rockauto. There is "Rear Left Upper; Lateral Arm", "Rear Right Upper; Lateral Arm", and just "Rear Upper; Lateral Arm". Does the version with no left/right designation work for either left or right? Or do I need all three? The left/right ones have a bracket, while the one with no side designation does not.

I guess my question is, if I want to replace all the bushings in the rear by just replacing all the control arms, do I need one of each of these items?



The polyurethane bushing kit for the rear is $85. So they'd be better bushings, and slightly cheaper, but I'd have to press out a whole shitload of bushings.

The front poly bushing kit is $100, but the upper bushings wouldn't be used since the JBA UCA comes with them, and then I'd still need lower ball joints, and have to deal with pressing them in/out.

I've never done any of this before, and would rather spend a little bit more to make it easier on myself. But I also don't want shitty control arms, as tempting as the $65 ones are. But it's also appealing to have better bushings, which I wouldn't get if I replaced the control arms.

 

[Mullett757]

Just pulled the trigger on 5100s all around with OME 884 springs up front and superflexs in the back. Replacing both CV axles and a passenger side front wheel bearing so figured might as well replace my spacers and 14 year old springs and shocks with some updated hardware.

Still debating on doing it myself at a friends and being there for 8 hours or just dropping $300-$500 and letting a local shop handle it. Ive done all the other work myself but the hassle of putting the spacers on has me considering going the lazy way. But if anyone is in or near Virginia Beach and would lend a hand/ garage for a day I can reimburse for a case/ bottle of booze and food (cash too)

 

[4RunnerIdiot]

Just pulled the trigger on 5100s all around with OME 884 springs up front and superflexs in the back. Replacing both CV axles and a passenger side front wheel bearing so figured might as well replace my spacer and 14 year old springs and shots with some pdated hardware.

Still debating on doing it myself at a friends and being there for 8 hours or just dropping $300-$500 and letting a local shop handle it. Ive done all the other work myself but the hassle of putting the spacers on has me considering going the lazy way. But if anyone is in or near Virginia Beach and would lend a hand/ garage for a day I can reimburse for a case/ bottle of booze and food (cash too)

If you do have a shop do it, I'd love to know exactly how much they charged you. I am leaning towards having someone else do my install because I have no real experience, and my 4Runner is my only vehicle, so it being out of commission for a while is not an option. I'm going to get some estimates next week, but I'd like to be able to say "that seems like way too much" if they quote me, well, way too much.

 

[RTCt4r]

If you do have a shop do it, I'd love to know exactly how much they charged you. I am leaning towards having someone else do my install because I have no real experience, and my 4Runner is my only vehicle, so it being out of commission for a while is not an option. I'm going to get some estimates next week, but I'd like to be able to say "that seems like way too much" if they quote me, well, way too much.

I had 3 shops quote mine. Install prices (not including delete of all the xreas lines etc, which I will do myself & not an issue for you) were $300, $325 & $500.

I'm scheduled at the 2nd shop for 8/7. I have the tools & means to do it myself but just too busy with other projects and frankly for $325, I'll feel better having a pro do it.

Kinda wish I had applied the same logic to my stereo replacement I jumped in to, on a whim, Friday night. I'm close to done, but it's been interesting. But that's a whole nuther topic.

 

[J-Roc]

Have a friend who just pulled the suspension out of his 18’ Tundra.
Was looking at it wondering if I’d be able to stuff that into my 4th gen.
Any takers on some advice/info/opinion...
Would it even fit?
If not, would I be able to just use the front springs, paired with 5100’s?

These are the rears.

These are the fronts. Anyone know any more info about sizes and fitment on them?

Would they be too big?

Thanks

 

[Mullett757]

If you do have a shop do it, I'd love to know exactly how much they charged you. I am leaning towards having someone else do my install because I have no real experience, and my 4Runner is my only vehicle, so it being out of commission for a while is not an option. I'm going to get some estimates next week, but I'd like to be able to say "that seems like way too much" if they quote me, well, way too much.

So far, Ive had 2 quotes of $500-$550 for that including alignment. considering they're doing both axles and a wheel bearing plus the shocks and struts all around im surprised the cost isn't more. this is also in the 757 of Virginia area too so prices can change on area

 

[scot850]

2003 4Runner Ltd V8 and X-REAS/RES questions

I have recently bought an X-REAS/RES suspension 03 V8 Ltd 4Runner. Being new to Toyota I am trying to find a solution if it exists for this issue.

I know one of the valve on the X-REAS is 'sweating' and the shocks are looking tired and rusted. I find the rear suspension really hard and not sure if that is an issue with this system or normal?

2nd question is, if I refresh the suspension the only options seem to be either remove the whole system and fit 'normal' shocks and springs or replace the exiting stuff at great expense.

I prefer to keep my vehicles standard but am willing to remove the X-REAS shocks and system and swap to regular shocks at the front. However, with the RES (airbag adjustable) rear suspension I would like to keep the airbag system if possible. But to do that I would need to find a shock that work like the X-REAS ones to be able to adjust from the -2" to +3.5" (I understand that is the range). Does such a thing exist? I'm thinking that 'bagged' vehicles can have a huge range of heights so surely there must be a solution out there?

Appreciate any help on this for the newbie!

Thanks.

 

[Rodtheviking]

I have recently bought an X-REAS/RES suspension 03 V8 Ltd 4Runner. Being new to Toyota I am trying to find a solution if it exists for this issue.

I know one of the valve on the X-REAS is 'sweating' and the shocks are looking tired and rusted. I find the rear suspension really hard and not sure if that is an issue with this system or normal?

2nd question is, if I refresh the suspension the only options seem to be either remove the whole system and fit 'normal' shocks and springs or replace the exiting stuff at great expense.

I prefer to keep my vehicles standard but am willing to remove the X-REAS shocks and system and swap to regular shocks at the front. However, with the RES (airbag adjustable) rear suspension I would like to keep the airbag system if possible. But to do that I would need to find a shock that work like the X-REAS ones to be able to adjust from the -2" to +3.5" (I understand that is the range). Does such a thing exist? I'm thinking that 'bagged' vehicles can have a huge range of heights so surely there must be a solution out there?

Appreciate any help on this for the newbie!

Thanks.

I went through this exact problem, after asking and my research I found that most recommend the Bilstein 5100's or the 4600's. I just got rid of all the Xreas and air bags in the end and went with all new springs.

 

[truckmike26]

:bravo: ARK!! First the FJ swap sticky, now this?! You the man!

Please direct me to the thread or post where someone figured out that an FJ Cruiser spring swap to a 4th-gen 4Runner was because the additional lift was from the spring rate or spring height. Thanks everyone.

 

[scot850]

Re: X-REAS/RES suspension

Thanks RodtheViking for your reply. I agree with removing all the X-REAS stuff but I would like to keep the RES/adjustable rear air-bag system. I have heard back from a shock supplier who would seem to suggest the Bilstein 5100 system would work, but I'll have to work out the shock length at rest and max/min travel length to make sure there is enough travel.

I am working on the understanding that the shock can work at any length of it's total travel.

Neil.

 

[BackOff]

I'm slightly confused about the rear arms, looking at rockauto. There is "Rear Left Upper; Lateral Arm", "Rear Right Upper; Lateral Arm", and just "Rear Upper; Lateral Arm". Does the version with no left/right designation work for either left or right? Or do I need all three? The left/right ones have a bracket, while the one with no side designation does not.

I guess my question is, if I want to replace all the bushings in the rear by just replacing all the control arms, do I need one of each of these items?

View attachment 306030

These are the rear upper links.
Either 1 of CMS861142 and 1 of CMS861143. If you need the brackets.
Or 2 of the CMS861164. If you don't need brackets.


And 2 of CMS861141.
These are the rear lower links.


CMS861258 is the cross bar/diagonal, not part of the 4-link.

 

[BackOff]

Please direct me to the thread or post where someone figured out that an FJ Cruiser spring swap to a 4th-gen 4Runner was because the additional lift was from the spring rate or spring height. Thanks everyone.

My measurement.

Stock OEM T4R V6
Driver: 13 1/2" long, 16mm thick, 8.4lbs, 7 coils.
Passenger: 13 1/4" long, 15mm thick, 6.4lbs, 6 coils.

MOOG FJ
Driver: 14 7/8" long, 17mm thick, 15.1lbs, 10 coils.
Passenger: 14 1/4" long, 17mm thick, 15lbs, 10 coils.

OME 2886
Driver: 16" long, 17.8mm thick, 13.1lbs, 10 coils.
Passenger: 15 7/8" long, 17.5mm thick, 13lbs, 10 coils.

 

[Rodtheviking]

Thanks RodtheViking for your reply. I agree with removing all the X-REAS stuff but I would like to keep the RES/adjustable rear air-bag system. I have heard back from a shock supplier who would seem to suggest the Bilstein 5100 system would work, but I'll have to work out the shock length at rest and max/min travel length to make sure there is enough travel.

I am working on the understanding that the shock can work at any length of it's total travel.

Neil.

https://www.shockwarehouse.com/news/toyota-4runner-x-reas-shocks.cfm

Good information here.

 

[Mullett757]

5100 and 884 lift question

Has anyone who has done the 5100 and one 884s in the front had to have aftermarket UCAs? Im debating biting the bullet and getting them since I got a nice commission check and the truck will already apart while the new stuff is going in next week.

 

[URBUGGED]

Have a friend who just pulled the suspension out of his 18’ Tundra.
Was looking at it wondering if I’d be able to stuff that into my 4th gen.
Any takers on some advice/info/opinion...
Would it even fit?
If not, would I be able to just use the front springs, paired with 5100’s?

These are the rears.

These are the fronts. Anyone know any more info about sizes and fitment on them?

Would they be too big?

Thanks

I thought I've read this in an earlier post that everything would fit fine except you'd have to cut away at the bottom of the strut to get it to line up properly. Do some more reading you'd find out what you're looking for.

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