560lb over stock, and my ride is still too stiff... how much softer should I go?

[Lindenwood]

Howdy, friends.

Like the title says, most of my weight has been added. I have a couple more skids to build, but I dont expect them to add more than another 40-50lbs. Still, my ride is rougher than Id like, and honestly a little higher than I think I'd prefer.

Currently:
Front: Eibach 620s on 5100s
Rear: Toytec Superflex on Boss shocks
With my daily weight I am about 2.75" over stock, F and R.

Overall, I am looking to step down a bit in both height and spring rate, and am looking for some opinions on my specific options. My motivations are about 50% for a cushier ride (I was qheeling today with my sleeping baby in the back, and every little bit helps in that regard!), 30% for aesthetics, and 20% for an arguable increase in road safety with a lower CG.

Cheap Option:
OME 881s up front and probably some 890s in back. I am okay with trim-packing the 890s to help ensure a little rake, and would likely add some air bags for additional support, especially for road trips. With bags, this would be about $500, and Id be lifted about 1-1.5" over stock, and up to 2-2.5 in the rear if I push up the air bags.

Higher end option:
Toytec Boss front adjustables, just to add some flexibility to match whatever rear setup I try. This brings the total up to about $1175 or so.

Does anyone have much experience with relatively high weight on coils normally advertised for stock weight? Obviously, I know Ill sit lower, but I want to make sure I wont see any other major issues like significant sagging or whatever.

Thanks!

 

[hounddogman]

What model 5100's up front and what setting are they ? I have the same springs with the Tundra 5100's set on the bottom on the passenger side and the 2nd notch on the drivers side to level it . I only have about 2 1/2" of lift and it rides very well , better than my moms 97 with boss coilovers set at 3".

 

[Cree]

I have 891s and 5125s in the rear. No weight. So soft it's comical. Think the only way to get softer is run Kings. Try changing out just your shocks first.

 

[Lindenwood]

What model 5100's up front and what setting are they ? I have the same springs with the Tundra 5100's set on the bottom on the passenger side and the 2nd notch on the drivers side to level it . I only have about 2 1/2" of lift and it rides very well , better than my moms 97 with boss coilovers set at 3".

The part number on my Toytec order is BE5-D558-H5. But, honestly I have no idea how to decode that, and until now I kinda assumed they were all the same ones that we put on the front of our 3rd gens but now you have me wondering if the valving is different.

 

[hounddogman]

The part number on my Toytec order is BE5-D558-H5. But, honestly I have no idea how to decode that, and honestly I assumed they were all the same ones that we put on the front of our 3rd gens but now you have me wondering if the valving is different.

The D558 is the tacoma model . Recently Bilstein introduced a 5100 made just for our 4Runners but for many years we had to chose between the tacoma or the tundra model . Arguments abound about which is better but as long as you use the lowest setting with the springs you have yours are "probably" the softest . I don't know anyone who has used both to truly compare.

 

[hounddogman]

I have 891s and 5125s in the rear. No weight. So soft it's comical. Think the only way to get softer is run Kings. Try changing out just your shocks first.

I ran 891s with tundra 5100s before swapping to LC coils for more lift and they were surprisingly soft . The 891 gets a bad rep as OME HEAVY spring but pared with bilstein shocks instead of OME and their not too bad .

 

[trackntrail]

I have 891s and 5125s in the rear. No weight. So soft it's comical. Think the only way to get softer is run Kings. Try changing out just your shocks first.

Do you know what model number your 5125's are? I'm looking to swap out my OME rear shocks as they're way too stiff with the 891s

 

[Lindenwood]

I have 891s and 5125s in the rear. No weight. So soft it's comical. Think the only way to get softer is run Kings. Try changing out just your shocks first.

From what I have read, there isn't any fundamental valving difference between the 5100s and 5125s, just that the latter is built longer. However, Ihave not been able to find any information or even anecdotes indicating the Boss rear shocks are particularly stuffer than 5100s or standard OME. If it turns out the shocks are similar to the others, that could indicate that my 240lb/in Superflex springs are what make the ride stiffer in my case.

To be clear, though, the front is definitely stiffer than the rear.

Also, I am happily willing to accept some brake dive, etc, if it means I can drive washboard roads with a little more comfort and a little less rattling, heh.

 

[Lindenwood]

The D558 is the tacoma model . Recently Bilstein introduced a 5100 made just for our 4Runners but for many years we had to chose between the tacoma or the tundra model . Arguments abound about which is better but as long as you use the lowest setting with the springs you have yours are "probably" the softest . I don't know anyone who has used both to truly compare.

Heh, yeah I just figured that out as well. I have no idea what that neans from an actual valving standpoint, but it is good to hear these may potentially be a bit softer. Thus, that would also indicate that ny 620lb front spribgs are the main source of the relatively stiff ride.

Also, to be fair, the ride is not bad. It is a mildly stuffer than my wife's TRDP, which is mildly stuffer than stock due to the 2" F/R spacer lifts. If I had a sportier road driving style, and didnt go offroad, Id probably like it. But yeah, offroad it feels like the whole body pitches and rolls with every road undulation like a hotwheels car.

 

[Cree]

Do you know what model number your 5125's are? I'm looking to swap out my OME rear shocks as they're way too stiff with the 891s

From what I have read, there isn't any fundamental valving difference between the 5100s and 5125s, just that the latter is built longer. However, Ihave not been able to find any information or even anecdotes indicating the Boss rear shocks are particularly stuffer than 5100s or standard OME. If it turns out the shocks are similar to the others, that could indicate that my 240lb/in Superflex springs are what make the ride stiffer in my case.

To be clear, though, the front is definitely stiffer than the rear.

Also, I am happily willing to accept some brake dive, etc, if it means I can drive washboard roads with a little more comfort and a little less rattling, heh.

I have the 4R specific models from Toytec. I don't see them on their site right now though. Might be a mobile issue.

EDIT: It's not a mobile issue. They quit selling them. That's lovely.

 

[Scramble]

Soft ride = TRD Tundra coilovers w/ Tundra 5100's & LC springs w/ Tundra 5100's.

 

[Lindenwood]

I dont want the height that comes qith the LCs.

However, I am also pondering going with a full OME setup with 881s up front and 890s in the rear. This should give me around 1.5" front and 2" rear, with hopefully stock-like cushiness. Plus, the benefit here is I can probably sell a complete and functional HD 3" lift kit , to someone who wants the height and admittedly more stable road feel, and make a little bit of that back.

 

[rkntoy]

I love my Tundra Spring/Tundra 5100 front. Really nice, progressive spring rate makes for a nice ride.

It has been paired with rear 906, 890, Superflex, and 861 springs. Cushiest ride was with the Superflex springs.

 

[Lindenwood]

Sigh. Been reading through every thread I can find on relative stiffness, and considering every option.

One thing I have realized is apparently qhen most people talk about a "better" ride or "increased rise quality," they are talking about a relatively firm road feel. I have slowly come to realize I dont really care much about brake dive or body roll, and instead just want the softest setup I can find.

At this point, I am kinda looking into factory springs on my bilsteins at the middle perch, which should give about 1" of lift, and maybe some 99 Talls with a spacer in the rear, which should net about 1.5" in the rear with my weight. (all heights relative to a stock 2002). For the rear, some 890s would probably technically be the best option, but I only consider the 99s+ spacers because the 99s have a lower spring rate.

 

[Dezert4Runner]

Sigh. Been reading through every thread I can find on relative stiffness, and considering every option.

One thing I have realized is apparently qhen most people talk about a "better" ride or "increased rise quality," they are talking about a relatively firm road feel. I have slowly come to realize I dont really care much about brake dive or body roll, and instead just want the softest setup I can find.

At this point, I am kinda looking into factory springs on my bilsteins at the middle perch, which should give about 1" of lift, and maybe some 99 Talls with a spacer in the rear, which should net about 1.5" in the rear with my weight. (all heights relative to a stock 2002). For the rear, some 890s would probably technically be the best option, but I only consider the 99s+ spacers because the 99s have a lower spring rate.

I can tell you from experience that 99 talls and 1.5” Daystars in the rear ride the same and give the same hub to fender measurement of 23”. That’s with leaving the factory cone bumpstops in and daily driving with no extra weight. The spring rates are much closer than you would think. If I remember correctly, stock is 170# and 890’s are 190#. The only noticeable difference to me is the load handling. The 890’s handle 200+ lbs way better than the 99 talls. In your OP, you mentioned being around 2.75” over stock all around. Since the Superflex are supposed to sit around 3.5” unloaded, whatever extra weight you have daily would probably make you sit around 21.75” to 22” with the 890’s and 21.5” with the 99 tall/ Daystar combo since they don’t handle weight very well, so your ride height estimation quoted above is probably spot on.


If you decide to opt for the 890’s, I am trying to find someone to trade my 890’s for their Superflex. I’d even pay shipping for both sets of coils if you’re interested.

 

[Lindenwood]

:0 PM Sent!

 

[Mudeprived]

I have 906's with bilstein 4600's in the rear and it is soft with my 150 lbs of tools. It is approx 1" higher than stock 99 talls.

I also haul a half ton of pellets 3-4 times a year without issue.

 

[Lindenwood]

Working out a trade for some 890s!

Now the question is do I grab some 880s for the front (knowing I can change the perch height on my 5100s), or simply settle on some hoodrat Moog coils! I am thinking the 880s for their 500lb spring rate vs the Moog's 595lb, but I do also love the idea of getting this done for like $60 haha.

 

[Lindenwood]

I figure the 890s will sit around 2.25" above stock and maybe down to 1.5" when loaded down with another 300lbs of outdoor gear.

Front options:
881s would put me around 1.75-2" with my weight. In order to avoid reverse rake with heavier loads I might need airbags for those bigger camping trips.

Then there are 880s, which should settle around 1" above stock with my weight. I could add top plate spacers to bring it up to 1.5ish.

I could go with 99 talls, and probably put them on the 2nd perch of my 5100s. That should also put me about 1.5-1.75" above stock.

Finally, I could find some basic OEM springs and put them on the top perch, which should also leave me around 1.75" above stock.

Thoughts?

 

[Lindenwood]

881s it is! Just realized that lifts are relative to stock, not relative to level. So, basically as far as overall height, the 890s will still sit higher than the 881s, and become roughly level with heavier loads.