6th gen 2017 4R, will it exist?

[sooperedd]

Wow. I did not see the sales for 2015 when I posted that. Revamped body style or the killed FJ helped the Runner.

Looking at sales figures for FJ it wasn't a strong seller in its last years moving just about 14k for its last 3 years. First year it sold over 50k copies, it went down from there. If it did affect 5th gen 4Runner sales it would have been in the beginning when most people are still paying off the FJ then that could be why Runner sales picked up after mid cycle refresh.

FJs look cool but the driver vision is terrible coupled with the difficulty getting in and out of the back seat. I think that was why the numbers dropped. It just wasn't practical.

I test drove one 3 different times and just couldn't pull the trigger on one because of those two big issues.

4RUNNER is basically a 4 door FJ with great driver vision.

 

[eeguy]

I would speculate that increasing 4R sales are a combination of the mid-cycle refresh, the FJ getting the axe, and GM pricing the Tahoe way up market.

YMMV

I was interested to see if there was any correlation between gas prices and sales so I made a graph of each for comparison.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19G5fUiPjVP5XkW0LEireFxEsXEZ0kz1gzGHGUdskWN8/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Quentin]

I was interested to see if there was any correlation between gas prices and sales so I made a graph of each for comparison.



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19G5fUiPjVP5XkW0LEireFxEsXEZ0kz1gzGHGUdskWN8/edit?usp=sharing

Hard to tell on my phone, but it looks like the 5th gen sales were climbing before the fuel prices really dropped a year ago.

 

[1engineer]

I was interested to see if there was any correlation between gas prices and sales so I made a graph of each for comparison.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19G5fUiPjVP5XkW0LEireFxEsXEZ0kz1gzGHGUdskWN8/edit?usp=sharing

Redesign.

 

[Jhalko]

Redesign.

Until I see a full econometric analysis proving this, it's the FJ death, that's what I keep telling my truck anyway.

 

[jgs9455]

Wonder why nothing has been leaked yet. Personally I'm waiting to see what the next generation 4Runner has in store before buying this generation.

 

[NuclearN8]

Wonder why nothing has been leaked yet. Personally I'm waiting to see what the next generation 4Runner has in store before buying this generation.

probably because there's nothing to leak...

The 2017 4Runner will be the same as the 2016 minus some color choice differences if I had to bet right now (but none of us really know).

In a nutshell the next generation 4Runner, whenever it gets released is going to have the Tacoma's powertrain with all the new safety P-sense crap. This about sums it up outside of the cosmetic exterior looks... the limited model may get the center console cooler and the Trail model may get the offroad cameras, both trickle downs from the LC200 platform.

If that's worth waiting for to you then give it a year or two...

Sales for the current generation are climbing so I doubt Toyota pulls the plug on it. There is no competition in the midsize BOF SUV segment right now (much like with the previous gen Tacoma and that ran 10 years...) that competes against the 4Runner. Why does everyone think Toyota is in a rush to refresh what isn't broke and has no competition. All their doing is gaining market segmet share, loyal customers and improving the vehicles resale value by continuing to pmanufacture a highly reliable vehicle with low supply choices and high demand)...

 

[jgs9455]

I think the more fuel efficient Tacoma engine and transmission alone is something worth waiting for.

 

[Gecko]

Just to add to the speculation:

Take it with a grain of salt since it's just a random guy on the interwebs, but this guy over at TN is claiming no 4runner refresh until 2018.

Toyota over the next few years - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

I admit to being wrong earlier in this thread (LandCruiser/LX refresh did NOT get a revised engine with DI as I heard they would), but I know that some of this information - especially about the Sequoia - is not true.

I have heard directly that at the dealer meeting last year, for 2017MY, Toyota promised dealers an updated Highlander (with 295hp V6 and 8AT from the new Lexus RX) and a refreshed 4Runner "with a 6 speed automatic." My assumption would be the Tacoma's "new" V6 and 6AT, but I cannot be sure. (Disclaimer: the dealer meeting was in September/October and who knows what could have changed since then?)

One other point to note - in an interview with the Lexus Enthusiast, Lexus General President Mark Templin strongly alluded to the fact that the only Lexus SUV continuing on as BOF would be the LX. Here is the exact quote:

Final question — what’s the outlook on body-on-frame versus unibody? Do you see a place for both types of vehicle in the Lexus lineup?

In the longterm, regulatory issues are going to force everyone in the industry to go to more unibody platforms. But in the short to mid-term, I still see a place in the lineup for a vehicle like the LX. We see that continuing for a long time.

There are markets around the world where a vehicle like the LX is really important. Eventually, every market in the world will have the same kind of regulations over CAFE and C02 emissions, and then eventually you will see even more unibody SUVs on the market in general.

Source: https://lexusenthusiast.com/2016/01...ark-templin-a-discussion-on-the-lc-500-coupe/

I am not sure if I expect the 4Runner and GX to part ways (not as related as they are now), or if ToMoCo has a plan for a midsize unibody architecture that could underpin both... but Templin's comments make it clear that there will be no more midsize Lexus BOF SUV.

A lot is up in the air with how ToMoCo plans to handle and position all of their BOF products.

 

[ST1FLER]

 

[bamma]

I think the more fuel efficient Tacoma engine and transmission alone is something worth waiting for.

How much more efficient is it though? On Tacomaworld Users post actually mpg and it is roughly the same as the previous gens 4.0.

 

[eeguy]

I like the exterior look of the current version, but I'm hoping they will at least revise the interior and powertrain. Even if a powertrain update only brings about ~1mpg improvement overall that is a not so insignificant difference when you consider the poor fuel economy of the 4runner. Of course the potential savings on fuel mean nothing if the updated powertrain is not as reliable, but I haven't heard of any issues with Toyota's 3.6L v6 and 6-speed.

As for the interior, I would really like a more up to date instrument cluster. I test drove a 2016 Camry a few weeks ago and really liked how clean it was, and the sharp screen was miles ahead of the 4runner. It looks like it's basically the corporate instrument cluster across much of Toyota's lineup. No doubt it will eventually propagate to the 4runner.

See below for comparison:

 

[vjack]

I was interested to see if there was any correlation between gas prices and sales so I made a graph of each for comparison.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19G5fUiPjVP5XkW0LEireFxEsXEZ0kz1gzGHGUdskWN8/edit?usp=sharing

I'm not sure what this proves. As others have said, the discontinuation of the FJ (and also the Nissan Xterra, which was in many ways similar to the 4Runner) could easily explain this growth.

 

[vjack]

I think the more fuel efficient Tacoma engine and transmission alone is something worth waiting for.

The new Tacoma V6 drivetrain has improved mileage by about 10% (on paper, at least... I have no idea what the real-world report is).

So you can do the math on your own driving habits & local gas prices to see what the actual effect would be. For me a 10% mpg bump would save me about $200 /year... definitely nice to have a little bit of cash stay in my pocket but when you consider the total cost of vehicle ownership it's not THAT big a deal.

Also consider that a brand-new 6th gen will carry a price premium over the current 5th gen lineup. If the new Tacomas are any indication there may be limited supply and few or no discounts below MSRP for a while.

 

[Dalko43]

I think the more fuel efficient Tacoma engine and transmission alone is something worth waiting for.

The new Tacoma is a good vehicle, but hardly a step forward over the old one.

Engine/towing specs are nothing impressive.
Same basic C-channel frame, which stands in contrast to the 4runner and LC's fully boxed frame...might have something to do Tacoma being made in America vs 4runner/Lc which are made in Japan right?

If the new 4runner borrows some of those lackluster parts from the Tacoma, I'll consider it a step back, and I think a lot of Toyota customers will as well. Toyota's conservative strategy has served it well over the last decade or so, but they need to step it up for their upcoming vehicles. Chevy, Jeep, Ford, ect. are looking for new to entice new customers.

 

[bamma]

The new Tacoma V6 drivetrain has improved mileage by about 10% (on paper, at least... I have no idea what the real-world report is).

So you can do the math on your own driving habits & local gas prices to see what the actual effect would be. For me a 10% mpg bump would save me about $200 /year... definitely nice to have a little bit of cash stay in my pocket but when you consider the total cost of vehicle ownership it's not THAT big a deal.

Also consider that a brand-new 6th gen will carry a price premium over the current 5th gen lineup. If the new Tacomas are any indication there may be limited supply and few or no discounts below MSRP for a while.

The new 3.5 has less torque (power) than the 4.0. On tacomaworld there have been a mix of mpg reports, but most lower than the EPA rating. I had an 07 v6 4x4 tacoma, and i always got 20 or better on the freeway. The new 3.5 may get slightly better mileage, but the price of the 2016 trd or went up by about $3k from the 2015. If I were buying now, I would wait for the 6th gen to be announced, if it doesn't have other upgrades I like, I'd be content with a 5th gen that you could likely find a great deal on. Crazy that a Tacoma is nearly $40k.

I got a 2013 Tundra after the restyle was announced. The sticker was $42,xxx and I got it for $34k flat. Drove it for two years and sold for $34k.

 

[CO-Cygnus]

The new 3.5 has less torque (power) than the 4.0.

The same 3.5 is in production with various tunes in Toyota/Lexus vehicles and I think some tunes have upwards of 280 lb/ft.

I'll keep pipe dreaming about them adding the 4.6 V8 though...

 

[vjack]

The new 3.5 has less torque (power) than the 4.0. On tacomaworld there have been a mix of mpg reports, but most lower than the EPA rating. I had an 07 v6 4x4 tacoma, and i always got 20 or better on the freeway. The new 3.5 may get slightly better mileage, but the price of the 2016 trd or went up by about $3k from the 2015. If I were buying now, I would wait for the 6th gen to be announced, if it doesn't have other upgrades I like, I'd be content with a 5th gen that you could likely find a great deal on. Crazy that a Tacoma is nearly $40k.

I got a 2013 Tundra after the restyle was announced. The sticker was $42,xxx and I got it for $34k flat. Drove it for two years and sold for $34k.

The Tacoma kept pretty much the same torque when it went from the old 4.0 to the new 3.5 (266 to 265 ft-lb). Power went up significantly from 236 to 278 hp.

The current 4Runner has 270 hp and 278 ft-lb, so I was assuming that any new V6 in an upcoming 4Runner would keep comparable numbers. Any consumer-apparent change would be the mpg. But like I said a 10% bump is nice but not really a significant difference really, and would be easily erased by a modest price jump. At a minimum the "Keep it Wild" savings would probably disappear, and discounts from the dealer will be more scarce as well.

P.S. - the engineer in me must point out that torque is not power...
P.P.S. - sounds like you got a great deal on that Tundra... basically a free vehicle for 2 years!

 

[bamma]

The Tacoma kept pretty much the same torque when it went from the old 4.0 to the new 3.5 (266 to 265 ft-lb). Power went up significantly from 236 to 278 hp.

The current 4Runner has 270 hp and 278 ft-lb, so I was assuming that any new V6 in an upcoming 4Runner would keep comparable numbers. Any consumer-apparent change would be the mpg. But like I said a 10% bump is nice but not really a significant difference really, and would be easily erased by a modest price jump. At a minimum the "Keep it Wild" savings would probably disappear, and discounts from the dealer will be more scarce as well.

P.S. - the engineer in me must point out that torque is not power...
P.P.S. - sounds like you got a great deal on that Tundra... basically a free vehicle for 2 years!

I was happy to break even on the Tundra. A big part of that is inflation in vehicle prices. Wasn't a fan of the Tundra tbh. A bit to big to park in garages downtown and it did not feel nearly as solid as our 4runner. Good for road trips though.

Like many users, I have had unreal resale on Toyotas. My last two Tacomas were owned for 4 and six years and each sold for $3k less than I paid. Crazy. Havent sold a 4runner yet and don't want to.

 

[qs933]

I have heard directly that at the dealer meeting last year, for 2017MY, Toyota promised dealers an updated Highlander (with 295hp V6 and 8AT from the new Lexus RX) and a refreshed 4Runner "with a 6 speed automatic."

An updated Highlander makes sense -- it was redesigned in 2014, so a mid-cycle refresh in 2017 is about right. You have to wonder if GM's recent move to downsize the GMC Acadia (and one would assume the Traverse and Enclave) will make the competition even more intense for the Highlander since they are around the same size.

That will be great if we see a refreshed 4Runner in '17. I wouldn't be surprised if they did a "refresh" vs. a redesign, like what happened with the 2012 Tacoma and 2014 Tundra.

One other point to note - in an interview with the Lexus Enthusiast, Lexus General President Mark Templin strongly alluded to the fact that the only Lexus SUV continuing on as BOF would be the LX. Here is the exact quote:

The biggest issue with Lexus' CUV/SUV line-up is the lack of a 3-row crossover. Prioritizing development of a 3-row crossover is probably way more important than any future development of the GX.