A bunch of tire (and related) questions...

[nhmiller]

So I am getting ready to put tires on my new-to-me 4Runner. It is a '96 SR5 blah blah blah... Relevant facts are as follows:
* 3.4/auto/4X4
* 17" rims from a 2005 4Runner with garbage 265/65R17 tires.
* I am honestly not sure if the vehicle has a lift on it... It appears slightly taller than stock - but I THINK that this may be a function of the slightly larger wheel/tire combo... If there is a "lift" it is minimal.
* Gears - Is there a way to ID gear ratio from the VIN? They "feel" fairly deep - I am guessing 4:30s - and I know how to determine this with the car in the air - just wondering if I can find it today instead of crawling around under the vehicle.
* Primary use for the next few years will be letting my oldest child cart himself and his siblings to school (10+ miles one way including a small chunk of reasonably maintained dirt road)
* Secondary use is getting in the woods - running forest service roads - "light 'wheelin"... (by "light" I mean "not trying to crawl over 40" boulders or engage in full throttle hill climbing - but very much wanting to get in to some places that you can't get without a decent 4X4... now that I think about it - maybe I should say "medium 'wheelin"). Secondary use should become primary use before the tires wear out...
* Off road terrain - this will vary. I live in a semi-rural area north of Phoenix - so lots of rocky soil with a ton of clay content that turns in to incredibly slippery goop when it rains. I get up in to the woods to the north and north east pretty regularly as well. I don't have any plans to do anything in the dunes with this vehicle... please not paddle tire recommendations.
* Road characteristics - given the current primary use - I want a high quality tire, and a tire size/compound/structure that provides decent cornering stability etc... I do want a safe tire and something that is not going to have a significantly negative impact on cornering / tracking characteristics. I also want a tire that will last reasonably well. Again - not looking to maximize this - just don't want some super soft compound that is going to be gone in 15K miles. I'm not horribly concerned about mileage as long as it is not something that is going to knock 2-3 MPG off on its own...
* Price - I don't want to spend more than I have to - but am willing to spend money to get a quality product that will last and be safe for the kiddos...

So - the questions...
1) What tire would you recommend? I was considering BFG ATs (KO2s) - have friends that have used this on similar vehicles with similar use patterns and have been happy... Have a couple of other friends that hate the BFG line. What would you recommend?
2) How much tire can I get on a 17" rim under a '96 4Runner and have full articulation and steering? I am not interested in going "huge" on these - but would like to go a bit bigger - and want to be sure that I don't get into interference trouble.
3) Pictures? If you have pictures of a Gen3 with 17" rims and tires in the 30-33" range would you be willing to share? I'm not horribly worried about image - but I'd prefer to not join the "looks like a mall crawler" crowd if I can help it...

EDIT - Digging - and I find 275/70/17s are readily available and look to be about a 32" tire. Any thoughts re#2 at this size... any pics of this size? Thanks...
Thanks in advance....

 

[KidVermicious]

Don't overthink your tires. Any quality AT will serve you just fine for what you want to do with the truck. The BFG AT/KO is a good tire, and if that's your inclination, go with it. If you're looking elsewhere, other brands with good AT tires are Cooper, Toyo, Falken, Yokohama, I could go on and on. Tirerack.com and Discounttiredirect.com both have good review sections where you can compare tires and prices. Or just browse the build threads until you find pics of guys wheeling the same terrain you're going to be on, and see what they're using .

There's no way to absolutely determine gear ratio without doing a spin and count or cracking the third and counting teeth. The vin plate on your firewall has a code that'll tell you what gears the truck rolled off the factory line with, you can probably trust it but there's always the chance somebody has regeared. Why do you need to know?

 

[BigRyan1986]

I have the bfg all terrain t/a's and love the heck out of them we took them off road with all of the 5th gen guys and they did amazing. I would buy another set but i want a more aggressive tire for off road. I will probably eventually buy another set just so that i dont have to run my wheelin tires on the road all the time. and there is something to be said about a tread pattern that has not been changed in years and every other company copies it for their own all terrain tires. mine are 30x9.5r15 but i could clear 33's with no prob on the stock suspension which you should to this is where mine took us

 

[BigRyan1986]

this is my 2nd gen with 35's on the stock suspension and they almost cleared totally with minor modification. But a set of 33x10.5 or 33x9.5 should do you perfect thats what im going to go with if i get tires before my lift gets put on

 

[nhmiller]

Thanks Kid...

... There's no way to absolutely determine gear ratio without doing a spin and count or cracking the third and counting teeth. The vin plate on your firewall has a code that'll tell you what gears the truck rolled off the factory line with, you can probably trust it but there's always the chance somebody has regeared. Why do you need to know?

Mostly just curious. I know that going from the current 30" to ~32" won't dramatically change how the vehicle pulls - but I also don't want to turn the thing in to a pig (I drove one while I was looking that had a very bad tire/gear combo and merging on to the freeway on a short on-ramp was pretty frightening... ).

 

[nhmiller]

Thanks Ryan... Great info... Appreciate the pics...

 

[KidVermicious]

this is my 2nd gen with 35's on the stock suspension and they almost cleared totally with minor modification. But a set of 33x10.5 or 33x9.5 should do you perfect thats what im going to go with if i get tires before my lift gets put on

Dude, I don't even know where to start.

a) You can physically install 35s on a second gen and they'll probably not touch the truck when your truck is parked level in your front yard, but the first time you flex out you're going to tear off your rear mudflaps first and the bumper trim pieces will follow shortly after and then you're going to start bending sheet metal. At the same time, the front tires will be gashing themselves to pieces on the front firewall and tearing up your fenders. 35s do not "fit" a second gen on stock suspension.

b) even if they did, your second gen is not the OPs 3rd gen. Some guys are able to get 33s to clear on first/second gens (and by clear, I mean really clear, not your definition), but they will invariably rub on a third gen at stock height. They rub frame, and they rub fender trim.

You really need to stop giving bad advice. It's obvious you're eager to help others and that's fine, but stop going off half-cocked. Know what you're talking about before you start yapping next time, ok?

 

[white_n_slow]

Having 17" wheels gives you some cool "in-between" sizes to work with.

275/70r17 is just about a true 32" tire and should theoretically fit great with little or no lift and won't throw off your gearing too much. Some tires also run pretty small by brand so you could probably get away with a 285/70r17 depending on the true size of the tire.

Your described usage, sounds like any good AT tire would do the trick. BFG KO's and Goodyear Duratracs are the go-to tires right now, but you could save a lot of money going with something a little less popular. Cooper AT3 or ATP, Hankook Dynapro, etc etc. Read up on the reviews on tirerack.com and amazon.com and then just hunt for the best price.

 

[white_n_slow]

Thanks Kid...



Mostly just curious. I know that going from the current 30" to ~32" won't dramatically change how the vehicle pulls - but I also don't want to turn the thing in to a pig (I drove one while I was looking that had a very bad tire/gear combo and merging on to the freeway on a short on-ramp was pretty frightening... ).

Two things that factor in here that not everyone takes into consideration:

1) Is your rig auto or manual? Manuals cope with larger tires a lot better than autos. I ran 285's with a 5-speed up here in the mountains and found it perfectly tolerable. Just drop a gear and leave it there if you're trying to maintain speed on a grade

2) Mountain driving. A lot of people say 33's are perfectly fine, but most of these people live at low altitude or in a flat area. I know Phx is pretty flat and lowish, but there are some pretty big hills and mountainous areas not far away. If you spend a lot of time in these areas, I would aim more torwards 32" instead of 33"

 

[KidVermicious]

Well first off you dont need to be a dick and start talking shit. It's my truck and i see how things clear not you. So you dont go off half cocked like you know what your talking about with someone elses truck. And yes it has been flexed and if your ass read properly you would have seen that i said that they dont fit but they are close. So stop talking shit like you know everything. Now im sure ur smart and know a few things but you are not looking at my truck except through a picture and if i wanted those 35's to clear they can if i made them. So just remember your looking at a picture and using the knowledge that you think you know and not seeing it in person. so if someone wants to try to put some bigger tires on their truck they can use all info thats given to them and make their own decision as to what they want to do after their own trials and errors. So basically shut your mouth and stop talking shit because you dont know everything.

I'm not going to get into a fight with you. The OP needed to know you were giving bad advice and talking out your ass. I think between the both of us that's been well established, so I'm done here.

 

[BigRyan1986]

I'm not going to get into a fight with you. The OP needed to know you were giving bad advice and talking out your ass. I think between the both of us that's been well established, so I'm done here.

and if you have looked at a 2nd gen verse a 3rd gen there that much of a difference between them

 

[nhmiller]

Two things that factor in here that not everyone takes into consideration:

1) Is your rig auto or manual? Manuals cope with larger tires a lot better than autos. I ran 285's with a 5-speed up here in the mountains and found it perfectly tolerable. Just drop a gear and leave it there if you're trying to maintain speed on a grade

2) Mountain driving. A lot of people say 33's are perfectly fine, but most of these people live at low altitude or in a flat area. I know Phx is pretty flat and lowish, but there are some pretty big hills and mountainous areas not far away. If you spend a lot of time in these areas, I would aim more torwards 32" instead of 33"

Thanks much sir...

1) It is an auto... I wish it was a manual - but got impatient
2) "Most" of the time we'll be in the area just north of Phoenix (altitude in the 2000 - 3000 foot range) but my folks live up on the Mogollon Rim - at about 7200 feet - and it will get up there from time to time...

I was leaning towards a 265/70R17 which sizes out at about 32.2x10.8... Sounds like that is going to be about right.

Any strong opinions on E vs C load range? I am leaning towards E - both so that I can raise pressure for on-road use and mileage - as well as to just have a slightly tougher tire on the trail. Any disagreement?

 

[pluton]

I've had the BFG AT's, then the BFG AT/KO's for over 15 years on three different vehicles. If you ever drive roads made of sharp-edged volcanic rock, the 3-ply sidewall is a nice thing to have.
I had 15" rims and C rated tires for years on previous vehicles, and they were fine; compliant ride and very flexible when deflated.
My current rig has 16" rims, so I was forced to go with 31"(265/70/16) D rated tires.
The size I wanted, 32"(265/75/16) comes only in E in BFG/AT KO world, and I wanted to avoid such a stiff tire on a relatively light vehicle. The suspension on mine is already stiff as it is.
Beside the newly redesigned BFG/AT KO2's, check out the 3-ply sidewall tires from Cooper: Discoverer ST MAXX, and STT. Less money than BFG if that's an issue. They seem to be fairly well thought-of.

 

[csp]

The gear ratio can be determined externally by the paint code on the rear pinion.

There's a dot painted on the center of it.

I don't have a link to the color codes, but a google search could yield one.

I agree that what works on a 2nd gen in no way is an indicator of what "might" or "probably" works on a 3rd gen. It's irrelevant.

 

[white_n_slow]

Thanks much sir...

1) It is an auto... I wish it was a manual - but got impatient
2) "Most" of the time we'll be in the area just north of Phoenix (altitude in the 2000 - 3000 foot range) but my folks live up on the Mogollon Rim - at about 7200 feet - and it will get up there from time to time...

I was leaning towards a 265/70R17 which sizes out at about 32.2x10.8... Sounds like that is going to be about right.

Any strong opinions on E vs C load range? I am leaning towards E - both so that I can raise pressure for on-road use and mileage - as well as to just have a slightly tougher tire on the trail. Any disagreement?

I personally would lean towards the C or D for your usage. E ranges are heavier. Even though you can crank the PSI up, you're going to get better mpg out of a C or D tire due to the weight. Plus, a 4runner with 60psi in the tires is going to ride like a cinderblock.

E range has tougher sidewalls, which is good for puncture resistance, but not going to make a huge difference for light off road use. Also makes them less compliant when airing down off road. I think E range are better suited to towing or people who really load their rig down (i.e. the same people who might consider airbags).

Just my $.02

 

[nhmiller]

The gear ratio can be determined externally by the paint code on the rear pinion.

There's a dot painted on the center of it.

I don't have a link to the color codes, but a google search could yield one.

I agree that what works on a 2nd gen in no way is an indicator of what "might" or "probably" works on a 3rd gen. It's irrelevant.

Awesome - Thanks! Google-foo resulted in this list (from this link: toyota GEAR RATIO COLORS ON PINION - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum )

no paint on pinion = 3.90 / 3.93
pink = 4.10
orange = 4.11
blue = 4.30
green = 4.38
yellow = 4.56
white = 4.88

This ALSO came with a lot of chatter from folks indicating that trusting the color dots was unwise (that they had seen mis-matches between the dot and the actual). Next time it is in the air I'll count revs - and If I ever swap gears - I'll be doing both ends anyway - so...

Anyway - thanks for the pointer! The list sounds solid enough for me at this point.

 

[csp]

I've seen that chatter about not trusting the colors as well, but it's been accurate five times out of five that I've checked.

 

[nhmiller]

Ended up going with BFG A/T KOs in 265/70/17. I went with the E1 range tire - mainly because quite a few of the areas where I will be off-roading have shaleish / sharp stone based surfaces - and I like the extra layers as a hedge against unintended hikes / camping trips.

I've got about 20 miles on them (from the tire shop to work). So far...
* They fit well and look good.
* I am not positive but there MIGHT be a tiny bit of rub at full lock - it was slight enough that I was not sure that it was tire rub. I'll look at it more carefully when I have some time to get under it.
* At 38PSI the ride is not terribly different from the slightly lower profile and much more "streetish" tire that was on it...
* There are a bit less "stable" at higher freeway speeds (looked down and was going 82). They don't feel like they are trying to kill me - but there does appear to be a bit more "wander". That said - I am driving around with two lower ball joints and an inner tie rod end behind my seat that were supposed to go in this weekend (should get them in some night this week - Saturday at the latest) and then a fresh alignment... so I'm not sure that I can blame the wander on the tires (yet)...

I'll take and post pics at some point... looking forward to getting them dirty.

 

[white_n_slow]

I doubt they're rubbing unless your wheels have a significantly different offset than stock. Congrats on the purchase, BFG's are a very good do-it-all tire

 

[nhmiller]

I doubt they're rubbing unless your wheels have a significantly different offset than stock. Congrats on the purchase, BFG's are a very good do-it-all tire

The wheels are stock 17" units from a 2005 4Runner... It looks like they are 17X7.5 with 5.5" offset whereas the stock 16's are supposed to be 16X8 with 4.54" offset... The tire width (tread width anyway) is the same - it looks like I might have 1/2" or so additional material on the inside. This weekend I'll get under it and turn it lock to lock and see what I can see.