A few questions about a Gen 3 I'm looking at ...

[MrEMan]

Already own a Sequoia and a 4th Gen, but am looking to buy a 3rd Gen for my daughter ... I've found a nice (needs new tires and the front bumper is bent, otherwise it's in remarkable shape for it's age) white 2002 SR5 4WD with 162K miles for just under $9000. Price may be a little high considering that I'll have to put new rubber on it and add a transmission cooler. My biggest concern is that the tranny has already been rebuilt ... is that normal for Gen 3's at that mileage? Years ago I had a Heep that I had to rebuild the transmission on early and it ended up being a money pit. What do you guys think? Is this a red flag?

 

[tbst]

To me, yes. Maybe a pink milkshake victim? There are tons of people here that have 250k + on original tranny.

 

[A.Wilson013]

Is it a private seller? Dealer? Either way, ask them about the radiator. Why was it replaced? Look for a VIN sticker on the Core Support. If it's not there, that along with the bumper, says to me that it's been in a front end collision.

Anyway, I have a hard time buying anything used if they have ANY stories to tell me. I just want the stuff to be right, no stories.

Post up some pictures, a link if you have one.

 

[T4R_Finally]

First off, is your daughter going to be doing some serious wheeling or towing with it? If not, you probably dont need an external tranny cooler. I considered doing the same but after reading up around here, it seems to me you would only want an external cooler for external cooling in line with the stock tranny cooler. If its just the pink milkshake you want to avoid, just replace the radiator with a new koyo. Thats what i am going to do since mine is just a daily driver for my daughter.

The price may not be that high considering its an 02. Does it have any maint records? Has the timing belt and water pump been replaced and all other work done? If the work was done and the history is there, not too bad. I dont think it is common to find rebuilt trannies at that mileage. Does it seem to shift good? Could you get a mechanic to check it over before buying?

 

[Kung]

IMHO, while you *might* try talking him down a bit, if it's had all maintenance done, has original everything, and JUST needs shoes and some small stuff, that's not all that high. Mine was $7200 for an '00 with 130K.

 

[kball]

From what I remember reading the 01-02's seem to have more issues the failure of the overdrive gears so that may have been why it was rebuilt. If the radiator looks new or an off brand then definitely it's either an accident or milkshake.

 

[awdjunkies]

Not trying to be biased here but my suggestion would be to try to find her a 99 or 00 Limited. she will definitely love the creature comforts and feel/be safe in any terrain due to the Multi-Mode 4WD/AWD system and better yet, find one with a Factory Rear Diff.

 

[MrEMan]

Wow ... once again I'm reminded what a great forum this really is. Thanks for all the input guys!

I've got some additional information and, naturally, some additional questions. First the info ... in addition to the specs I quoted last night, it is supposedly a 1-owner vehicle with a "clean" car fax. I'm not sure how he defines "clean" because he ended up telling me that the car fax shows a rear end collision with "moderate" damage. The original owner was apparently indignant about the moderate rating, stating that it only had the rear bumper replaced ... and it does appear to still have the original tailgate. Possibly received a moderate because I'm sure the trailer hitch had to be replaced as well and that can be pretty expensive. The salesguy also states that they have all of the maintenance records for the vehicle. Of course I will verify all of this before making a final decision. Another oddity (or at least it seems odd to me, maybe it's not) is that it's running on 15" rims. Was that standard for 2002?

Is it a private seller? Dealer? Either way, ask them about the radiator. Why was it replaced? Look for a VIN sticker on the Core Support. If it's not there, that along with the bumper, says to me that it's been in a front end collision.

It's at a dealership and was just listed ... no photo's yet, they haven't even had time to detail it yet. The dealership states that the radiator has NOT been changed and it looked original. If it is original, I'm guessing that it's running on borrowed time. But I don't think it's been a pink milkshake victim yet.

First off, is your daughter going to be doing some serious wheeling or towing with it? If not, you probably dont need an external tranny cooler. I considered doing the same but after reading up around here, it seems to me you would only want an external cooler for external cooling in line with the stock tranny cooler. If its just the pink milkshake you want to avoid, just replace the radiator with a new koyo.

No serious wheeling or towing for her ... it'll be her DD, but she goes to school in the mountains, so the 4WD is primarily for snow, probably with an occasional foray down a forest service road to get to a river put-in, etc. I've been researching it here as well and it looks like plenty (if not most) of folks bypass the internal cooler completely and run just an external cooler ... but I might consider a new koyo. Thanks for the suggestion.

Does it have any maint records? Has the timing belt and water pump been replaced and all other work done? .... Does it seem to shift good? Could you get a mechanic to check it over before buying?

Yes to all of these questions. I haven't seen the maintenance records yet, but apparently the timing belt and water pump have been replaced. But I don't know how long ago, so it may be approaching time for a new one if it was changed out at 90K.

Not trying to be biased here but my suggestion would be to try to find her a 99 or 00 Limited. she will definitely love the creature comforts and feel/be safe in any terrain due to the Multi-Mode 4WD/AWD system and better yet, find one with a Factory Rear Diff.

I'm open to any 3rd Gen, but am leaning toward something after the '99 mid-gen refresh. But I don't know a lot about standard features on these older T4R's and I've only just begun seriously looking ... was the multi-mode 4WD standard on the '00 and '00 Limiteds?
*** OK, in reading through the stickies some more I've figured out that when you say multi-mode you're talking about the center differential locker ... which is apparently standard on all '01-'02 models. At least this particular vehicle has the CDL ... that should be sufficient for her needs. ***

From what I remember reading the 01-02's seem to have more issues the failure of the overdrive gears so that may have been why it was rebuilt.

Has anyone else noticed this trend? I may want to steer clear of the '01-'02's if that's the case ...

Thanks again for all the help! :thanks:

 

[GladeRunner]

Regarding wheel size, I have an 01' SR5 4x4 with stock 15" wheels. I believe that was standard for the 01-02 SR5.

I think the 16" wheels were standard for the Limiteds and Sports.

 

[MrEMan]

Regarding wheel size, I have an 01' SR5 4x4 with stock 15" wheels. I believe that was standard for the 01-02 SR5.

I think the 16" wheels were standard for the Limiteds and Sports.

Thanks! I'm currently trying to find what size tires I could run with the 15's. Any ideas?

 

[Kurtis]

From what I remember reading the 01-02's seem to have more issues the failure of the overdrive gears so that may have been why it was rebuilt. If the radiator looks new or an off brand then definitely it's either an accident or milkshake.

This is true. '01-'02 are more prone to planetary gear failure than '96-'00. But this didn't stop me from buying an '02.

 

[GladeRunner]

I'm running BFG All Terrain KO's 31/10.5 and love them. They grip well and would be a good all around tire for N GA.

The T4R came with Michelin LTX 30/9.5. They were a long lasting tire and good for MPG's, but a little too wimpy for my taste so that's why I moved up to the 31 BFG's.

 

[T4R_Finally]

No serious wheeling or towing for her ... it'll be her DD, but she goes to school in the mountains, so the 4WD is primarily for snow, probably with an occasional foray down a forest service road to get to a river put-in, etc. I've been researching it here as well and it looks like plenty (if not most) of folks bypass the internal cooler completely and run just an external cooler ... but I might consider a new koyo. Thanks for the suggestion.

Same exact thing for me. She had a rear wheel drive sports car and wants to go to school in the mountains - so 4runner it was to be, and now is. I was on the same track as you and won't tell you what to do, I'm just relating my decision and what I based it on. I read here that running an external tranny cooler, only, is not better than running the stock cooler because it requires air moving through it to cool the fluid vs. being cooled by the coolant within the radiator as it was designed by Toyota. So, running one in addition to the stock cooler helps in extreme conditions but running it standalone may actually not work as well as stock. So, since my goal is just to try and avoid the pink milkshake in a 12 year old radiator, and since the radiator has provided sufficient cooling over those 12 years, I'm just going to replace the radiator and leave it at that. Yes, a radiator costs more than a tranny cooler but, for me, the cost isn't significant enough to try and just bypass the stock cooler and hope it works, if not as good as stock, good enough at least.

I like the multi-mode on my 2000 limited because, if she gets in a slippery bind, she can just push a button for AWD until she can get to a point where it's practical to shift to 4WD. The elocker is just gravy at this point. If this truck lasts long enough to be my toy down the road, it will be a nice to have.

I gotta tell you, though, in my opinion, the more details you give about what you are looking at, the more I'd be concerned. Rear end collision on record (which doesn't constitute a "clean" carfax in my book) and a rebuilt tranny. It may be just fine but might also justify some negotiating on price. At the very least, I'd find a trustworthy mechanic and take it there, tell him what you know about it, ask him to checkout those things, and see if he can find anything else.

As far as tires, I hear good things about Goodyear Duratracs, but never had any. Bought mine with BFG AT's on it and like them. I've had several sets of those on various vehicles and they've always performed well for me.

 

[Nelsonmd]

I read here that running an external tranny cooler, only, is not better than running the stock cooler because it requires air moving through it to cool the fluid vs. being cooled by the coolant within the radiator as it was designed by Toyota. So, running one in addition to the stock cooler helps in extreme conditions but running it standalone may actually not work as well as stock. So, since my goal is just to try and avoid the pink milkshake in a 12 year old radiator, and since the radiator has provided sufficient cooling over those 12 years, I'm just going to replace the radiator and leave it at that. Yes, a radiator costs more than a tranny cooler but, for me, the cost isn't significant enough to try and just bypass the stock cooler and hope it works, if not as good as stock, good enough at least.

I disagree with this. LOTS of guys run the external cooler only, and the temps are fine. There is really no evidence that the engine coolant affects the temperature of the ATF because of the configuration of the stock cooler. Lots of guys talked about the engine warming the ATF, which would be good on cold days, but the couple people that tried to measure the effect didn't see any difference (not that they were good tests, but they were the only thing I have seen).

As far as the engine coolant cooling the ATF, my ATF (with my external cooler only setup) runs significantly cooler than my engine water temps (WT=191°C, ATF ~ 150-160°C), so it is impossible for the coolant to cool the ATF.

Read up on it for yourself, there's lots of info here, but I havn't heard a bad thing about bypassing the stock tranny cooler and just using an external one. Stuck in traffic in the heat of summer, I have not had a problem with overheating.

I like the multi-mode on my 2000 limited because, if she gets in a slippery bind, she can just push a button for AWD until she can get to a point where it's practical to shift to 4WD. The elocker is just gravy at this point. If this truck lasts long enough to be my toy down the road, it will be a nice to have.

I gotta tell you, though, in my opinion, the more details you give about what you are looking at, the more I'd be concerned. Rear end collision on record (which doesn't constitute a "clean" carfax in my book) and a rebuilt tranny. It may be just fine but might also justify some negotiating on price. At the very least, I'd find a trustworthy mechanic and take it there, tell him what you know about it, ask him to checkout those things, and see if he can find anything else.

As far as tires, I hear good things about Goodyear Duratracs, but never had any. Bought mine with BFG AT's on it and like them. I've had several sets of those on various vehicles and they've always performed well for me.

This I do agree with. The multimode of a 99-00 LTD or any 01-02 would be good for a young girl. Just push the button and you get better traction. Plus, since the button is AWD not 4WD, your transfer case doesn't get fubar'd when she forgets to turn it off when the snow clears up. Don't worry about the diff lock, I can't really imagine my sisters actually using it (or rather knowing how to use it), and I wouldn't want them to forget to turn it off and drive around with it on on dry pavement (which I am sure they would do).

I also agree that this specific one doesn't seem like a good deal. 9k is alot for 162k miles. I think there are better deals out there. And I doubt the dealer will come down much if they JUST listed it. It needs to sit for a while before they will negotiate much.

And yeah, the Duratracs seem to be one of the best reviewed snow/ice tires (at least on this forum). I run them. A number of guys here run them and are very happy with them. Just don't get load range E (go with C).

 

[MrEMan]

This is true. '01-'02 are more prone to planetary gear failure than '96-'00. But this didn't stop me from buying an '02.

But would it stop you from buying one if you knew that it had already been rebuilt once before 162K miles?

I'm running BFG All Terrain KO's 31/10.5 and love them. They grip well and would be a good all around tire for N GA.

I'm thinking of doing the same thing, but probably GY Wrangler SilentArmors (which I currently have on my 4th Gen and have been very happy with ...)

I gotta tell you, though, in my opinion, the more details you give about what you are looking at, the more I'd be concerned. Rear end collision on record (which doesn't constitute a "clean" carfax in my book) and a rebuilt tranny. It may be just fine but might also justify some negotiating on price. At the very least, I'd find a trustworthy mechanic and take it there, tell him what you know about it, ask him to checkout those things, and see if he can find anything else.

I'm beginning to feel the same way ... truthfully, the fact that I even posted the orginal questions probably says that I was already concerned about it. The vehicle looks and drives great, but it's my daughter we're talking about. You know how that goes ...

As far as tires, I hear good things about Goodyear Duratracs, but never had any. Bought mine with BFG AT's on it and like them. I've had several sets of those on various vehicles and they've always performed well for me.

Actually in the process of lifting and putting 285 Duratracs on my 4th Gen, but I'm thinking that I want something that leans a little more toward road performance for her, so I'm thinking the Wrangler SA's in a 31x10.5R15 .... IF I were to decide to get this T4R.

 

[T4R_Finally]

I disagree with this. LOTS of guys run the external cooler only, and the temps are fine. There is really no evidence that the engine coolant affects the temperature of the ATF because of the configuration of the stock cooler.

I don't want a debate. Bottom line, for me, the stock setup works fine and has worked fine for 12 years. I don't have a need for additional tranny cooling. All I want to do is avoid the pink milkshake. So, I'm going with how it was designed and what works. Again, just relating my decision and why.

 

[MrEMan]

The multimode of a 99-00 LTD or any 01-02 would be good for a young girl. Just push the button and you get better traction. Plus, since the button is AWD not 4WD, your transfer case doesn't get fubar'd when she forgets to turn it off when the snow clears up. Don't worry about the diff lock, I can't really imagine my sisters actually using it (or rather knowing how to use it), and I wouldn't want them to forget to turn it off and drive around with it on on dry pavement (which I am sure they would do).

You guys have convinced me of this ... based on who this vehicle is ultimately for, I'm going to limit my search to either a '99-'00 Limited or any '01-'02. Although the '01-'02's being more likely to experience a planetary gear failure concerns me, so I may focus more on the '99-'00 Limiteds ...

 

[Martinjmpr]

You guys have convinced me of this ... based on who this vehicle is ultimately for, I'm going to limit my search to either a '99-'00 Limited or any '01-'02. Although the '01-'02's being more likely to experience a planetary gear failure concerns me, so I may focus more on the '99-'00 Limiteds ...

Around here (CO), 4runners are as common as weeds and a limited will still command a premium price. You might be better off going with an 01-02 SR5 just because they're more common and likely to be less expensive.

Also consider that Limiteds have the digital HVAC controls which are great when they work and super-expensive when they don't. : SR5's have pretty simple, reliable mechanical HVAC controls.

Funny thing is, I started off wanting a Limited but when I found my SR5 with the rear diff lock, I jumped on it and now I'm glad I did.

To me the biggest advantage of the limited is the fact that the 99-00 Limited is the only one you can get with both Multi-Mode 4wd AND a rear diff lock. With a 96-00 SR5 you can get the rear diff lock but not the multi-mode and with the 01-02, you get the multi mode but not the rear diff lock.

Of course, rear diff lock only means anything if she takes it off road.

Regarding the transmission cooler, I've been running one for over a year and have had no problems even in the coldest temperatures (I think we had a couple of -20 days last Winter.) To me it's just cheap insurance against a pink milkshake situation. :shrug:

 

[awdjunkies]

You guys have convinced me of this ... based on who this vehicle is ultimately for, I'm going to limit my search to either a '99-'00 Limited or any '01-'02. Although the '01-'02's being more likely to experience a planetary gear failure concerns me, so I may focus more on the '99-'00 Limiteds ...

Good Man, awd by way of pushing a button and you're done. Aka, "Set it, and forget it!" Literally, if she forgets to set it back to normal 2wd mode, or keeps it on dry land/pavement/tarmac, it wont hurt anything because there aren't any Locked Diffs to mess with or being messed with.
Like T4R_Finally, I too purchased mine with the intent of giving it to my daughter.

 

[BWXT]

You guys have convinced me of this ... based on who this vehicle is ultimately for, I'm going to limit my search to either a '99-'00 Limited or any '01-'02. Although the '01-'02's being more likely to experience a planetary gear failure concerns me, so I may focus more on the '99-'00 Limiteds ...

I think you can find a much better deal. We bought our '01 SR5 during a time of high gas prices when not many people were looking for an SUV, but even so got a pretty good deal. Bought it in August of '08 with 50k miles for $10,000. One-owner, pretty basic truck, but flawless. And seeing as how it's my wife's car, I love that it has the AWD mode. I hate to admit it, but I don't think it's EVER been in 4-lo. That will change when it's paid off.:lookout: