Adjusting caster on lifted T4R with stock UCA

[rjfowler]

I have a 2010 LE with a 2.5/1.5 Toytec spacer kit. Wheels are 18x9 -12mm and the tires are 265/70/18. The lift kit was installed by a Toyota dealership last week.

Still getting some rubbing, and noticed that (only) the passenger side tire is hitting metal at the back of the wheel well by just a little bit when the steering wheel is at full right lock (I have already removed the plastic mudguards). Looking at the alignment report the dealership gave me after the lift (see below), it looks like the passenger side tire is 1 degree behind the driver side tire, which I assume explains why I'm having this problem.

I called the dealership today and asked why they didn't adjust caster since it is out of spec. Service manager said he didn't think that caster was adjustable, but was friendly and said to bring it in and he'd have the alignment tech look at it.

Based on forum searches, it seems that the stock UCA is not adjustable but that caster can be adjusted by adjusting the LCA. See here.

My questions:

(1) Does anyone have the manual pages or other official Toyota documentation showing that caster adjustment is possible via adjustment of the LCA? It would be nice to have this in hand in case I get a tech who has never seen it done and therefore believes it cannot be done.

(2) I have seen reference to a "Body Mount Chop" or BMC but have yet to figure out exactly what that is. Would that apply to this scenario if adjusting the caster can't fix it?

(3) Any other advice, aside from getting new UCAs, wheels, or tires? This is my wife's car and I've already tested her patience to the hilt with the too-big tires that rubbed like crazy and the subsequent promise that a lift kit would solve everything.

Thanks very much in advance. Hopefully one day I'll be able to reciprocate with some useful information.

 

[470SNC]

Yes you adjust caster by the lower control arms but the stock UCAs can not take that adjustment, you will need aftermarket UCAs with uniballs or light racing UCAs with stock ball joint adjustment for that

 

[470SNC]

the metal you are rubbing on is the body mount, you simply cut that protruding piece and leave it or weld in a piece of metal to make it flat so no more rub, it is pretty standard for lift and rubbing

 

[Stifler]

why not just do it right?

 

[rjfowler]

why not just do it right?

Which is new UCAs? Or something else? I have no plans to tear out the XREAS, which is why I stuck to the 2.5"/1.5" spacer lift in the first place. By all accounts, this was supposed to work. The driver side tire seems to be fine. So if I can get 1 degree more caster on the passenger side, presumably that would work without spending another $1k on new UCAs and installation. If not, then I guess new UCAs are my only option.

 

[1engineer]

Which is new UCAs? Or something else? I have no plans to tear out the XREAS, which is why I stuck to the 2.5"/1.5" spacer lift in the first place. By all accounts, this was supposed to work. The driver side tire seems to be fine. So if I can get 1 degree more caster on the passenger side, presumably that would work without spending another $1k on new UCAs and installation. If not, then I guess new UCAs are my only option.

The reason that alignment is adjustable in the first place is no two vehicles, nor even one vehicle side to side or front to back, is exactly the same. It's all because of tolerance stack up. You could be in alignment just right with those settings you posted. That's why there is a range instead of an exact number. One tire could be "moved forward" in reference to the other and alignment wise you are good to go. Big tire fitting wise, you could be SOL without modification or installation of aftermarket components. Hope this helps.

 

[Jeremy556]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7660835/t4r/t4r_alignment.pdf

With stock UCAs and 2.5" lift, a good alignment tech should be able to get 2 degrees of caster, which is still too low, IMHO. Under 3 degrees will be squirrely on the highway.

 

[rjfowler]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7660835/t4r/t4r_alignment.pdf

With stock UCAs and 2.5" lift, a good alignment tech should be able to get 2 degrees of caster, which is still too low, IMHO. Under 3 degrees will be squirrely on the highway.

Thanks very much. Maybe I'll end up having to get new UCAs, but would like to at least give the alignment option a shot. Looks like the LR UCAs should work with the setup I have, but I'd appreciate any advice to the contrary.

For what it's worth, I don't really notice a difference between how it drives now vs. how it drove before the lift.

 

[Stifler]

The alignment can be achieved with factory spec tires.... you wheels/tires combined with the lift is the issue.

 

[BigredTEX]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7660835/t4r/t4r_alignment.pdf

With stock UCAs and 2.5" lift, a good alignment tech should be able to get 2 degrees of caster, which is still too low, IMHO. Under 3 degrees will be squirrely on the highway.

I agree with this statement 100%. You can go to 4 degrees without UCAs, but you start to move other measurements out of spec, specifically camber. As you move beyond 2 degrees caster you will see camber start going negative.

 

[Antman]

Man that is a great picture- and I know all about great pictures.

 

[470SNC]

lol didnt realize that pic was that huge, sorry, edit and fixed, light racing UCAs are a cheaper way to go and you can adjust them yourself

Light Racing Upper Control Arms for FJ & 03-09 4Run

 

[Ducmonsta]

I have a 2010 LE with a 2.5/1.5 Toytec spacer kit. Wheels are 18x9 -12mm and the tires are 265/70/18. The lift kit was installed by a Toyota dealership last week.

Still getting some rubbing, and noticed that (only) the passenger side tire is hitting metal at the back of the wheel well by just a little bit when the steering wheel is at full right lock (I have already removed the plastic mudguards). Looking at the alignment report the dealership gave me after the lift (see below), it looks like the passenger side tire is 1 degree behind the driver side tire, which I assume explains why I'm having this problem.

I called the dealership today and asked why they didn't adjust caster since it is out of spec. Service manager said he didn't think that caster was adjustable, but was friendly and said to bring it in and he'd have the alignment tech look at it.

Based on forum searches, it seems that the stock UCA is not adjustable but that caster can be adjusted by adjusting the LCA. See here.

My questions:

(1) Does anyone have the manual pages or other official Toyota documentation showing that caster adjustment is possible via adjustment of the LCA? It would be nice to have this in hand in case I get a tech who has never seen it done and therefore believes it cannot be done.

(2) I have seen reference to a "Body Mount Chop" or BMC but have yet to figure out exactly what that is. Would that apply to this scenario if adjusting the caster can't fix it?

(3) Any other advice, aside from getting new UCAs, wheels, or tires? This is my wife's car and I've already tested her patience to the hilt with the too-big tires that rubbed like crazy and the subsequent promise that a lift kit would solve everything.

Thanks very much in advance. Hopefully one day I'll be able to reciprocate with some useful information.

Just take it to High Tech. Get your dealership to pay for the alignment because it will be upwards of about $165. [MENTION=99235]Scott@Hightech[/MENTION] will get it done as best as possible without giving you any BS that you're getting from the lazy alignment tech at the dealership.

 

[cleveland48]

I have 3" kit on my 14 and have had 3 alignment' s done already. They got my caster enough to where I'm not close to rubbing body mount, but my I believe it caused my camber or toe to be out cause it pulls to the right. So I ordered some LR UCA' s to hopefully help. I honestly don't trust my dealer with alignment though, but I called firestone and they will not install the uca' s so dealer will have to do that.

 

[Scott@Hightech]

I have a 2010 LE with a 2.5/1.5 Toytec spacer kit. Wheels are 18x9 -12mm and the tires are 265/70/18. The lift kit was installed by a Toyota dealership last week.

Still getting some rubbing, and noticed that (only) the passenger side tire is hitting metal at the back of the wheel well by just a little bit when the steering wheel is at full right lock (I have already removed the plastic mudguards). Looking at the alignment report the dealership gave me after the lift (see below), it looks like the passenger side tire is 1 degree behind the driver side tire, which I assume explains why I'm having this problem.

I called the dealership today and asked why they didn't adjust caster since it is out of spec. Service manager said he didn't think that caster was adjustable, but was friendly and said to bring it in and he'd have the alignment tech look at it.

Based on forum searches, it seems that the stock UCA is not adjustable but that caster can be adjusted by adjusting the LCA. See here.

My questions:

(1) Does anyone have the manual pages or other official Toyota documentation showing that caster adjustment is possible via adjustment of the LCA? It would be nice to have this in hand in case I get a tech who has never seen it done and therefore believes it cannot be done.

(2) I have seen reference to a "Body Mount Chop" or BMC but have yet to figure out exactly what that is. Would that apply to this scenario if adjusting the caster can't fix it?

(3) Any other advice, aside from getting new UCAs, wheels, or tires? This is my wife's car and I've already tested her patience to the hilt with the too-big tires that rubbed like crazy and the subsequent promise that a lift kit would solve everything.

Thanks very much in advance. Hopefully one day I'll be able to reciprocate with some useful information.

I sent you a PM but I should be able to fix that with little issues, the fact that your running a 265 and have a lift means there should be no rubbing . usually we run 285s on a 2.5/3" lift and still only have to remove the mudflaps and move the fender liner. The dealer is either uneducated or really lazy. most likely lazy.

I have 3" kit on my 14 and have had 3 alignment' s done already. They got my caster enough to where I'm not close to rubbing body mount, but my I believe it caused my camber or toe to be out cause it pulls to the right. So I ordered some LR UCA' s to hopefully help. I honestly don't trust my dealer with alignment though, but I called firestone and they will not install the uca' s so dealer will have to do that.

Again this is an example of a really crappy/lazy alignment tech, I align these trucks all the time with and with out UCAs and don't have the issues dealers seem to always have.

 

[cleveland48]

Wish I lived close to you I know my dealer is worthless. They changed oil month ago, and I was under the truck the other day noticed skid plate bolt missing and one broke off. I havn t been off road since the oil change

 

[rjfowler]

I sent you a PM but I should be able to fix that with little issues, the fact that your running a 265 and have a lift means there should be no rubbing . usually we run 285s on a 2.5/3" lift and still only have to remove the mudflaps and move the fender liner. The dealer is either uneducated or really lazy. most likely lazy.

Will be coming in on Friday morning.

 

[rjfowler]

I sent you a PM but I should be able to fix that with little issues, the fact that your running a 265 and have a lift means there should be no rubbing . usually we run 285s on a 2.5/3" lift and still only have to remove the mudflaps and move the fender liner. The dealer is either uneducated or really lazy. most likely lazy.



Again this is an example of a really crappy/lazy alignment tech, I align these trucks all the time with and with out UCAs and don't have the issues dealers seem to always have.

Many thanks to Scott@Hightech for fixing my rubbing issues (without installing new UCAs). I would highly recommend Scott and his shop to anyone that lives in the DMV area.