aemravan's build thread - project TacoRunner

[awhitney1]

So now I'm questioning my own suspension with the modified Tundra Rack. I've been getting some bump steer ever since I installed Dobinsons 749V rear springs. I have Kings 700lbs springs up front. Running a little stiff, but my rig is heavy. Looking at the Iron Man rear springs for a 3 inch lift, the free height of those springs is 420mm and the Dobinsons free height is 500mm. So maybe you think I should also look into those Iron springs to help with bump steer? I do have a slight rake from the rear being lifted, but levels out when I have all my camping gear with the 749V springs.

I'm a little green on this and suspension geometry lol.

I'll apologize in advance if anyone read through the last 3 posts of blabber :focus:


I was struck with a profound realization after a question my brother asked... "how did you drive with this rack for the last 14 months..?" and then it hit me..
I have a 2-part problem that I've created with a much easier solution... rear springs/shocks too soft but sit very tall, and the front end was just raised almost 2 inches.


If I just went back to my ride height I was at a couple of weeks ago, the bump steer is there, yes, but it's been manageable up to this point.. AND the biggest issue I have is under acceleration with the rear squatting excessively bring my toe-in to extreme degrees.

Reading through the coil specs for the dobinson progressive coils.. it makes perfect sense... it's a TALL coil.. 500mm free height (vs 390-420 on the regular side for other coils) WHILE also having a progressive spring rate of 198-300lbf/inch (approximately 270lb/in with a loaded rig). Vs a heavy duty iron man spring that has a 392mm free height and a constant rate of 354lb/in.

I think my solution here is not to further cut and weld and try to figure out a good pick-up point on the knuckle, but just lower the rear 1-2inches with a heavy springrate spring, that will resist the initial weight transfer/squat, and also allow me to lower the front to match the level setup and just send it..

Needless to say... Ironman was running a 25% off promotion... so I just ordered their foam cell shocks front and rear with the 2-3 inch heavy duty springs for both.. :dance:

so if anyone is looking for a long travel dobinsons rear setup or an icon 2.5 remote resi front, hit me up

 

[FoundedSine14]

Needless to say... Ironman was running a 25% off promotion... so I just ordered their foam cell shocks front and rear with the 2-3 inch heavy duty springs for both.. :dance:

I'm curious to hear what you think about the Ironman Foam Cells. I have the Nitros with medium springs front and medium-plus rear but they're too stiff on-road imho

 

[aemravan]

So now I'm questioning my own suspension with the modified Tundra Rack. I've been getting some bump steer ever since I installed Dobinsons 749V rear springs. I have Kings 700lbs springs up front. Running a little stiff, but my rig is heavy. Looking at the Iron Man rear springs for a 3 inch lift, the free height of those springs is 420mm and the Dobinsons free height is 500mm. So maybe you think I should also look into those Iron springs to help with bump steer? I do have a slight rake from the rear being lifted, but levels out when I have all my camping gear with the 749V springs.

I'm a little green on this and suspension geometry lol.

I'm every bit as green as you are with this. Mostly speculation on my side, but does seem to make sense lol.

To answer your first question, I tried their C59-701V spring, which is a little less stiff, when I was looking to lower the rear a bit after removing my tent.. well.. fun fact.. it didn't.. pretty sure the free standing spring height is the same, and the coil rate wasn't significantly lower to drop me by much, but gave me even worse squat at acceleration.


The Ironman springs I have showing up tomorrow are 4 inches shorter free height... but they have a spring rate of 354lb/in... vs the tall 500+mm dobinsons coil which starts the spring rate at like 190lb/in with an estimated 270 at "ride height". I THINK this is where all the squat is coming from when i hammer down.. weight transfer and the lower starting spring rate allows it to dip literally like 5-6 inches in the rear, which in turn jacks up the front, and on my rack, pulls in the toe like a total of 5inches between both wheels.


I'll let you know in a couple of days how this plays out with the new ironman setup.. it's supposed to show up tomorrow. I'm hoping that it drops my rear end about 2inches from where it sits now, which will allow me to drop the front to match and get me into a usable range of bump steer on the street with the LC200 rack.


I am a bit surprised that you're reporting some bump-steer issues with the modified tundra rack... I was under the impression that it should be WAY better than the LC200... Have you pulled any measurements with how much toe-in you get on the front tires as you lift the front end off the ground from ride height to full droop? Because with my lc200 rack I'm like near 2.5inches for each wheel..

 

[aemravan]

I'm curious to hear what you think about the Ironman Foam Cells. I have the Nitros with medium springs front and medium-plus rear but they're too stiff on-road imho

That's quite literally what I want to hear too stiff is my current goal so that I can keep my bump-steer to a minimum under acceleration I'll trade a little ride comfort for that

 

[awhitney1]

I haven't measured the toe-in from the front tires. I probably should look into that.

Thanks for all your input on your experience with your suspension drama lol.

I'm every bit as green as you are with this. Mostly speculation on my side, but does seem to make sense lol.

To answer your first question, I tried their C59-701V spring, which is a little less stiff, when I was looking to lower the rear a bit after removing my tent.. well.. fun fact.. it didn't.. pretty sure the free standing spring height is the same, and the coil rate wasn't significantly lower to drop me by much, but gave me even worse squat at acceleration.


The Ironman springs I have showing up tomorrow are 4 inches shorter free height... but they have a spring rate of 354lb/in... vs the tall 500+mm dobinsons coil which starts the spring rate at like 190lb/in with an estimated 270 at "ride height". I THINK this is where all the squat is coming from when i hammer down.. weight transfer and the lower starting spring rate allows it to dip literally like 5-6 inches in the rear, which in turn jacks up the front, and on my rack, pulls in the toe like a total of 5inches between both wheels.


I'll let you know in a couple of days how this plays out with the new ironman setup.. it's supposed to show up tomorrow. I'm hoping that it drops my rear end about 2inches from where it sits now, which will allow me to drop the front to match and get me into a usable range of bump steer on the street with the LC200 rack.


I am a bit surprised that you're reporting some bump-steer issues with the modified tundra rack... I was under the impression that it should be WAY better than the LC200... Have you pulled any measurements with how much toe-in you get on the front tires as you lift the front end off the ground from ride height to full droop? Because with my lc200 rack I'm like near 2.5inches for each wheel..

 

[aemravan]

I haven't measured the toe-in from the front tires. I probably should look into that.

Thanks for all your input on your experience with your suspension drama lol.

hey man.. we're all here trying to figure out this black magic together :juggle:

But yea, I would definitely take a look and see at how much toe-in you're seeing from ride height to full droop. I just throw some painters tape across the tire, mark the centerline and throw a jack up against that line, jack it up and measure how much the line moves from the pre-set jackstand edge at full droop. Even factory will have some, so a little is anticipated, but if you're seeing anything like I am with the current setup it's troublesome haha. Ideally, you would need to pull your coilover out and be able to fully cycle from full droop, through ride height, up to full bump and see what it does.

 

[aemravan]

Got 2 inches of apparent lift and lowered the front suspension, win win.

Also doing a dirty alignment to get her road worthy once the shocks deliver .. jacked up both tires to where I think I’ll aim for with front ride height and pulled front to rear measurements. I’m certain it’s far from perfect , but should get me close at least.

I targeted 0 degrees of toe with even spacing front to rear since everything down travel from this point will toe in. But hopefully not very much with the heavy rear springs out for delivery.

Gave up with reconfiguring geometry for the time being and just rely on not dropping too much under acceleration.

I’ll drop some measurements from what I’m seeing at some point.

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[aemravan]

The BroDozer 3000 is back on the road. Took wayyy longer than anticipated to swap out the suspension… adjusting the front Ironman coilovers was an absolute motherf*****. The heavy spring is under a ton of compression and the “suggest” unloading the spring. Not sure how they mean .. but you can’t compress it on the rig lol. So if unless you know exactly how high or low to set them , or you want to pull them out for adjustment , you’re down to wd40 and a breaker bar on the coilover wrench [emoji1787](which by the way … why the hell is that NOT included in the damn kits for adjustable coilovers ??? Luckily I had a set from my supra lol)

The Ironman rear shocks are bulky AF in diameter.. with my axle pushed back as far as it is they barely touch the shock mount at full droop. I might clearance that a bit or throw on another washer spacer .. we’ll see.

I could go maybe an inch higher up front.. but I’m not loaded at all now and no spare .. so I think I’m sending it as is. The axle angles look amazing. And so far no bumpsteer issues I’ve had with it jacked up.

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[aemravan]

I think I'm doing it again :help:

Bare with me... yes.. current setup accomplished what I needed from a functionality stand point.. but I think it went just a TAD bit much on the Form factor..

After doing some thinking.. i REALLY need to stop shopping late. After doing some research... I think I could have gotten away with just swapping out my rear springs to the Dobinsons C59-331 rear coils... they are 410mm tall, and have a rate of 349lb/in. This would have sate 3/4" taller where I am now on the Ironman setup while using my existing long travel shock. I may have needed to limit down travel via strap.. but would have worked. And I could have kept my Icon 2.5 front set up and just dropped it back down to where I needed. Everything could have been done for sub $300 :bump2:

I feel like if I could lift the rear just 3/4" more it would be the sweet spot both visually as well as still keep in me in the sweet spot for bumpsteer on road.

The ironman stuff is 0 miles and obviously good... but my concern is the shock travel in the rear is damn near non existent.. and I'm affraid I won't be able to space the shock body away from the axle mount enough to not impact it. Last thing I need is to wear a hole in the dang thing... I decided at $270 is worth the experiment to try the dobinson coil with the long travel shock and see where it puts the rear end at. If it works, I'll just sell the complete rear setup.. if it doesn't I'll just sell the new coil. For the front.. my buyer has been flaky on the 2.5 Icon's.... if by the time I throw in the new coil (and it works) he hasn't showed up.. I might consider pulling the fronts as well.. ound:

*EDIT* Decided to do a bit more research into springs.. and i THINK the OME 2899 spring may be what I need... it's a 400mm free height (vs the 410 on the Dobinsons) but does bump up the spring rate to 387lbf/in, plus it's cheaper than the Dobinson spring.. hopefully this hits the sweet spot with an added .5-1" rear lift.. but I guess we'll see.

 

[aemravan]

Couple of updates.. I definitely need to get the rear just a little higher up... I think currently as it sits I'm down like 3inches from previous ride height. My goal of making the rack work is definitely achieved.. but just at too much of a compromise on the ride height. My front axles are damn near parallel right now so I'm actually lower now than I was when the LC200 rack had no significant bumpsteer. I can probably go up an inch easy.

Problem is.. there isn't a good in between spring height with the rate I need... I found a couple of options of adjustable lower coil mounts.. but.. nothing that works with the 2003 spring seat unfortunately.. Ironman has a sweet setup for the lx/gx platform that has air ride.. but it won't boltup to the 2003 4runner seat.. I have a set of OME 966 springs on the way, they are like .5-.75" taller.. but I think once the spare goes on I'll be at the current height I'm on.. so in a desperate attempt to get this dialed in just like I need, I ordered a rough country 2" upper coil spacer that bolts to the cross member.. I'm hoping the combination of that and the new spring will get me the slight rake I need before I'm fully packed out.. Hopefully everything is here this weekend to give it a try once and for all....

and I might be going back to my original Dobinsons LT shock... the amount of down travel the ironman shock has just doens't look nearly enough even though i'm loving the way they ride..

 

[aemravan]

Did a little bit more digging and looks like nobody makes anything specific for the 03 (and whatever similar years) 4runner rear coil mounts as far as an "adjustable" setup.. which is a shame..



The only specific kit is from Eibach in their "leveling" kit for the rear.. which is exactly what I would be after.. but it comes with springs, bump stops, etc and I'm not willing to gamble $500+ to find out if the spring they use is the exact same inner diameter as the rest of the springs available... what I would REALLY need from them is literally just this lower piece that would interlock with the factory lower coil seating..

Ironman has a sweet, adjustable coil mount but it's the airbag delete and the lower coil mount is way different than the 4th gen without it. It's meant to mount on the flat surface with a bolt, and then give you 0- ~1 (maybe 1.5") of adjustment.. It would be awesome to be able to run an adjustable spring seat in the rear to dial in the driver-lean we have without having to run a coil spring spacer.. and would open the possibility of dialing in the rear ride height with just about any spring height/rate combination.

So we'll see.. I think the OME spring and the upper spacer I have on the way for Friday will get me what I need, but may be just slightly on a taller side.. :noidea: but the Dobinsons LT rear shocks will be going in with that combination to see what it sits like.. the front will come up another 1/2" at least.. maybe closer to 3/4-1" and I'm hoping like hell it's the last of my tinkering with the height so I can go back and get it realigned and stop working on it.. :rofl:



Although I guess there is still the decision on whether I throw the Icon 2.5's back upfront as well if the rear shocks are coming out so I can sell the ironman as a complete kit.. :suspicious::tongue1::croc:


*edit* I just reached out directly to Eibach to see if they will sell me just the 2 urethan adapter pieces from their kit.. after looking closer, their kit wouldn't work with other springs because their spring (even if same diameter) is flat-bottomed.. if this is something they will sell separate, it would open up the possibility of running the Ironman adjustable lower :shrug:

 

[aemravan]

well, I got a very pleasantly quick, and positive response from Eibach on the lower adapter piece for the coil seat... part number 8001260 and they are $21.60 each plus shipping and in stock. Can't get them through the website so waiting to see if I can just provide some credit card information and go about it that way, but so far I think this may be a huge win in trying to dial in the rear spring height. (unfortunately this means a bit more time to wait.. ANDDDD even more money to drop on the Ironman 4x4 adjustable bucket :facepalm: )

BUT.. before I got jumping onto the next potentially bad idea.. I already have the upper spring spacers in the mail via amazon for delivery tomorrow, i'll give them a shot first and if they give me the needed ride height I won't take it any further.. It's likely that I will need to do some manipulation to the ironman adjustable setup to sit perfectly within this urethane adapter and it's may not be necessary at all.

 

[aemravan]

If you can’t go up , it’s time to go down I guess? Lol

Got my EMU coils and spring spacers. Got both installed along with my previous Dobinsons LT shocks. Gained a bit more height than anticipated.. probably close to 3 inches from my measurements. I know the springs will settle , but I’m very likely going to pull the hard mounted upper spacer off and just leave it with the new springs and my 2” urethane spring spacers. Should get me the needed 1-1.5” more that I was looking for.

Happy to report that jacking the rig up in the air , even with them 2x down travel, the springs stay in place .. I don’t think I need limit straps. But I might entertain the idea just in case.. it would SUCK to drop a coil when out and about.

Now I just need to re test my previous icons up front and dial in the added height there and it should be good to go…

Oh and in this picture I’m sitting fully on my bumps with no shocks or springs, 1” of clearance all around.

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[aemravan]

Spent today reconfiguring my suspension.
Dropped the rear lower and threw in my icon 2.5s up front and raise it a bit. I think I’m finally at a livable hieght that doesn’t scrub tires under acceleration. I will say that the icon shocks are a lot softer on both compression and rebound so the same rear setup tends to squat more under load just because of the front shock difference.

It’s still got some weight to be added in the rear with the spare and these OME springs will for sure settle some but as it sits there’s a little bit of rake which I don’t mind for when I pack out fully for camping.

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[aemravan]

Did a bit of comparing to my old pictures just before the wheel swap and I think my mind is finally at ease with the current stance.. I forgot just how much rake I was dealing with prior to swapping over to the new setup and jacking up the front like 2 inches.



As it currently sits its not visually idea for me.. I would love to bring the front up another inch, or more, but the reality is that I'm limited by bump steer on the lc200 rack setup. If I could rework the spindle to be able to mount the outer tie rod an inch higher I could go up, but that's a different project for a different day (or year even). I don't think it's worth the effort at this time. Not to mention it's quite possible these OME springs will settle a bit more in the rear giving me a bit less rake. Plus I still don't have my spare mounted AND it's fully unloaded without my camping pack-out. I could very well be fully level with it packed.



I put the rear sway bar back on so as it sits now my setup is:

-Icon 2.5 front with no sway bar (due to impact on the inner tie rods at droop+steer lock)

-Dobinsons LT rear shocks with EMU 899 heavy springs (1.5" daystar spacer on the drivers side to correct lean) with factory sway bar



now I just need to sell my brand new Ironman setup.... which I'm still on the fence about lmao.. I did like the ride quality being stiffer and had next to no squat under acceleration.. but the biggest thing was at my desired ride height in the rear.. I had only a few inches of downtravel left.. and I'm not splitting up the kit just to run the front shocks :lalala:

 

[aemravan]

Did a little cutting and welding today. Still need to rework the latch mechanism and weld on a lockout , but man.. super stoked about how it came out . Sucked in as far as it will go against the tail gate, up in the air and with a nice angle to it.

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[aemravan]

Oh yea .. I also finally fell for the recent tail light trend .. quite an upgrade in looks for sure

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[aemravan]

Spent some time yesterday replacing the now-sloppy heim joints on the tire carrier swing out side (luckily I had 2 spares from the bulk purchase the first time around). Got everything cleaned up and lubricated back before assembly, and made a slight pitch adjustment so it closed in more level. I have a feeling the main runner warped just ever so slightly when I ran the super hot bead for the new upper runner.



Also took a bit of time and redid the landing pad/latch mechanism. Instead of the soft rubber pads, I got some HPDE sheet and built a new landing pad/stop that wont wear out/sag like the rubber did, but also made a slight adjustment so that the latches pull straight up when locked. Before the hooks sat a bit further in and made for a slight angle pull when closing. Super happy with how solid it all came out.



The plan for today is to trim off a bit of excess on the new carrier, sand, prep and paint it while I'm on my lunch break and hopefully give it enough time to slap the spare on after work. I haven't fully decided yet.. but just as a back-up safety measure, I may run a strap through the tire and around the upper carrier member and had tie it to the bumper.. that way IF anything does fail down the road (which I can't imagine happening with how solid everything came out) it alteast wont go bouncing down the road :ballchain:



REALLY starting to fall in love with the changed up look, definitely made the right choice across the board.

 

[awhitney1]

I found out why my steering when accelerating was tracking weird, my total chaos upper control arm bushings have alot of play in them after about 7000 miles. Surprised how much play there was in the whole wheel with the upper control arms bushings being shot. Just replaced them two years ago!

 

[aemravan]

I found out why my steering when accelerating was tracking weird, my total chaos upper control arm bushings have alot of play in them after about 7000 miles. Surprised how much play there was in the whole wheel with the upper control arms bushings being shot. Just replaced them two years ago!

Man .. that’s a shame .. 7k miles is nothing ..


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