Almost time for new brake pads and rotors

[AntleredRuin]

Don't want to derail Mike's thread, but what model trucks had 231s and which had 199s?

Me neither, sorry about that.

I may be wrong, but I think all Sequoias have the 231mm. The early Tundras started with the 199mms, but moved over to the 231mms, starting in '03ish (I think) It was a recall for the Tundras actually, as Toyota noted that the Tundra was too large a vehicle for the 199mms.

I think the 4th Gen 4Runners have 199mms.

Sweet deal!

Did you keep the old pads paired with the rotors?

They threw the old pads in for free (don't think they can legally sell used pads), but they were pretty worn so I did not use them.
I got the rotors turned by my dad who works at Firestone and some Advance Auto Platinum pads, along with the pins and anti-rattle clips. I didn't rebuild the calipers, as I could tell they weren't stuck when I used a clamp to press them.
A year later and still going strong.

 

[octanejunkie]

Me neither, sorry about that.

I may be wrong, but I think all Sequoias have the 231mm. The early Tundras started with the 199mms, but moved over to the 231mms, starting in '03ish (I think) It was a recall for the Tundras actually, as Toyota noted that the Tundra was too large a vehicle for the 199mms.

I think the 4th Gen 4Runners have 199mms.


They threw the old pads in for free (don't think they can legally sell used pads), but they were pretty worn so I did not use them.
I got the rotors turned by my dad who works at Firestone and some Advance Auto Platinum pads, along with the pins and anti-rattle clips. I didn't rebuild the calipers, as I could tell they weren't stuck when I used a clamp to press them.
A year later and still going strong.

No worries about a hijack, we all just here to learn and share

I'm holding off on TBU partially because I have freahly turned OEM rotors in stock, but I'd also like to know what ill-effects, if any, can be experienced with the TBU, like how does it affect ABS if at all.

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[LittleCaesar]

The TBU may have helped not to kiss that Uber driver. Ha. Since you do enough off roading, I would consider some 231s.

Probably would go Akebono or OEM, with Brembo or OEM rotors if keeping stock hardware.

 

[octanejunkie]

The TBU may have helped not to kiss that Uber driver. Ha. Since you do enough off roading, I would consider some 231s.

Probably would go Akebono or OEM, with Brembo or OEM rotors if keeping stock hardware.

Thanks for bringing that up, my premiums are painful now

Why Akebono?

 

[LittleCaesar]

Good pad for the price. Never had one squeal. Can't say the same for the Hawks I used to use.

 

[Mark_BC]

I recall reading long ago that TBU can affect ABS.

I am thinking of TBU because when loaded and I need to come to a fast stop, it's sometimes a bit scary. But I have the split 3 spoke rims which I like and they won't fit with the TBU. Wondering if I should grind away some material on the rim. I think I'd have lots of warning before the wheel blew apart.

 

[octanejunkie]

I picked up a set of open box STOPTECH (Centric) 308.04360 pads off Amazon for $19 :cowboy:

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[4Runner4Leon]

I recall reading long ago that TBU can affect ABS.

I am thinking of TBU because when loaded and I need to come to a fast stop, it's sometimes a bit scary. But I have the split 3 spoke rims which I like and they won't fit with the TBU. Wondering if I should grind away some material on the rim. I think I'd have lots of warning before the wheel blew apart.

My limited reading on the TBU swap (limited because I have fairly new rotors and pads and will wait for them to wear down or warp before upgrading) indicates that only the 231's have issues with ABS, 3 spokes, and backing plates. The 199's fit right in and don't really sacrifice anything for most situations.

 

[octanejunkie]

My limited reading on the TBU swap (limited because I have fairly new rotors and pads and will wait for them to wear down or warp before upgrading) indicates that only the 231's have issues with ABS, 3 spokes, and backing plates. The 199's fit right in and don't really sacrifice anything for most situations.

The 64 thousand dollar question here, Leon, is does the 199 tundra brake setup enjoy the same, proportionately larger braking surface area that the 231s does over the stock 16" 4runner disc and caliper combo, or is it the same surface area just on a thicker rotor?

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[4Runner4Leon]

The 64 thousand dollar question here, Leon, is does the 199 tundra brake setup enjoy the same, proportionately larger braking surface area that the 231s does over the stock 16" 4runner disc and caliper combo, or is it the same surface area just on a thicker rotor?

Beats me, I'm just starting to read about the upgrade. But here is what I found that may be helpful, from this thread:

First, the benefits of the 13WL (231mm) caliper over the 13WE (199mm) caliper are as follows:

Here’s all you need to do the upgrade… When ordering parts, tell them it’s for a 2005 Toyota Tundra 4x4 V-8. You could get this stuff from NAPA, or AutoZone, which is a little cheaper... a Toyota Dealer, which would be more expensive, or your auto parts store of preference. You might also consider junkyards if you have a good one nearby.

On the other hand, numerous threads seem to suggest that the practical differences between 199s and 231s are negligible, unless you're towing:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/84463-231mm-199mm-tundra-upgrade.html

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/3rd-gen-tundra-brake-upgrade-question.326567/

I think you should be the guinea pig and do all the research then report back to us .

 

[theesotericone]

Now I've been drinking the TBU cool-aid so I am imagining chatter from my brakes every time I drive down a hill (which is every day for me).

It's not a Jim Jones thing man. Larger caliper, larger pad, larger rotor=Better stopping power.

As far as the ABS thing goes, it's crap in these trucks with stock tire size. Mine used to activate all the time wheeling down steep grades with 265/75's and stock brakes. I went up a few tires sizes and did the TBU at almost the same time. My ABS has not activated once since.

 

[octanejunkie]

Jim Jones served poisoned flavor-aid, not Kool-aid

 

[LittleCaesar]

Get the 231s and be finished with it. Have run then for nine years with no ABS problems. Stopping power over stock is night and day.

 

[Hepar]

The 64 thousand dollar question here, Leon, is does the 199 tundra brake setup enjoy the same, proportionately larger braking surface area that the 231s does over the stock 16" 4runner disc and caliper combo, or is it the same surface area just on a thicker rotor?

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I'm curious too. I need brakes some point soon and I know the 231's don't fit my wheels without some trimming of either the caliper or the inner wheel. Wondering if it would be worth it to do the 199's.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

It's not a Jim Jones thing man. Larger caliper, larger pad, larger rotor=Better stopping power.

As far as the ABS thing goes, it's crap in these trucks with stock tire size. Mine used to activate all the time wheeling down steep grades with 265/75's and stock brakes. I went up a few tires sizes and did the TBU at almost the same time. My ABS has not activated once since.

Uh shucks man, you should know by now that half (3/4?) of what I say here is tongue in cheek . The "coolaid" reference was not meant to be derogatory but loving, sort of like on this forum everyone catches the "must have a Sport Hood" or "must have '99 console" fever... Look at my sig, I caught both of these and more, and no doubt there is a TBU in my future as well, I'm just trying to stay in that big river in Egypt a bit longer.

What size TBU do you have? (real men always talk sizes)

 

[MN4runnerman]

I have the 199s on my 99 and the 231s on my 01 went with Wagner oex pads and rotors for both, also did Wagner shoes and turned the OE drums for the rear. I stop just fine and don’t have any issues. It’s been 2 years since I did both.

 

[octanejunkie]

What size TBU do you have? (real men always talk sizes)

IIRC, he has the 231 PowerStop kit

I have the 199s on my 99 and the 231s on my 01 went with Wagner oex pads and rotors for both, also did Wagner shoes and turned the OE drums for the rear. I stop just fine and don’t have any issues. It’s been 2 years since I did both.

Regarding the thickness of rotors, are they the same 199 vs 231?
(possibly the worst phrased question of the day)

 

[MN4runnerman]

IIRC, he has the 231 PowerStop kit



Regarding the thickness of rotors, are they the same 199 vs 231?
(possibly the worst phrased question of the day)

Rotors are the same

 

[RadioRon]

Just wanted to chime in with my experience with my 2000 4runner. I went through a number of brake issues about six years ago, starting with excessive brake judder which had been getting slowly worse since I bought the vehicle in 2008. I first upgraded my brakes to Tundra 199mm (the smaller choice), including new calipers, rotors and pads. The reason for this was that I had the impression that the brakes were overheating and that the Tundra upgrade would help a lot with that. The judder came back after about 15000 miles, so I changed the discs and pads again. Brake judder returned after only 1500 miles this time, so I had a shop do more in-depth diagnosis and we found that I had excessive hub run-out. I had the rotors milled using a Pro-Cut on-car lathe, and installed new pads. This was an absolute solid fix because the judder never came back and that was about 35,000 miles ago. The brakes are still creamy smooth with no pedal pulsations or judder at all. So, if you are suffering from this kind of problem, have a serious look at hub run-out as the cause of all your grief and consider having your discs milled using an on-car brake lathe. It worked for me.

Also want to mention that I've got Akebono Pro-Ceramic (I think they are the ACT812 part number, but not certain) pads on my truck and they are really great. Good feel, no dust, no squeal and not terribly expensive.

 

[octanejunkie]

Rotors are the same

If that's the case then the two measurements (199, 231) refer to the caliper width and directly relate to Breaking surface area, pad to rotor.

what BFAD Illustrated in his thread regarding critical measurements of the TBU, the thickness of the rotor is what's preferential between the two vehicles, but the braking surface area is directly related to size of the pad, so it seems the 199 TBU is only going to be a percentage more effective over stock 16" 4Runner brakes versus the 231 TBU

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