Amp & Sub question

[UnderFire]

Agreed on the source bit, but personally i've seen to many cheaper amps either sound like garbage or blow up to complain about an extra 200. Plus it leaves room for upgrades.

I would like to echo your point on getting as close to 1000w rms at 1 ohm though. Thats definitely the best way to go about it. I just think running 6 gauge to a 1000w is not the best idea.

I completely agree, it would definitely be wise to upgrade the wire to Good quality copper 4 Gauge regardless, 6 gauge is not a very common size in car audio, so I'm thinking that it is probably cheap aluminum wire.

But 90% of amp failures are due to user error, I've never seen a properly set-up amp fry while getting a clean signal with no clipping and proper voltage.

 

[TCMach]

I completely agree, it would definitely be wise to upgrade the wire to Good quality copper 4 Gauge regardless, 6 gauge is not a very common size in car audio, so I'm thinking that it is probably cheap aluminum wire.

But 90% of amp failures are due to user error, I've never seen a properly set-up amp fry while getting a clean signal with no clipping and proper voltage.

Yea I thought it usually goes up to 8 if you dont need 4. Also I would probably go to 95% on that point haha. I guess I should have made that more clear. I've never had an amp go bad, but I've had friends come to me with amps that have blown and they tend to be cheaper. I guess in my experience higher price amps have a better chance at standing up to stupidity?:becky:

 

[Party Boy]

Thanks for the help guys. I was wondering, what are your thoughts on Lanzar amps? Any experience with them? I've read that for the price they are very high quality, with one of the biggest complaints is the size. They tend to run a bit bigger than most comparable amps, but I guess that helps with the cooling? No idea.

 

[UnderFire]

Thanks for the help guys. I was wondering, what are your thoughts on Lanzar amps? Any experience with them? I've read that for the price they are very high quality, with one of the biggest complaints is the size. They tend to run a bit bigger than most comparable amps, but I guess that helps with the cooling? No idea.

Lanzar isn't what they used to be, their smaller amps are very low quality, the only products worth buying are their PA speakers (which I run) and the large (like 2k Watts and up) OptiDrive series amps.

 

[shootmymime]

im running a hifonics brutes for my L7s, ive had it for years on these and i think its a great amp for the money compared to other large name brands.
i would recommend them for sure!

 

[BrianSD_42]

There is no way 6 guage (is it even true 6 G?) Is thick enough to power 1000 W RMS at 14 feet of cable.

Also the kit you bought is most likely Copper Clad Aluminum and not Copper.

You should go with 4G true copper. And any kit like that will cost $100+

If you must go with CCA and not Copper then at least get 4 G. I would return your 6 G.

 

[UnderFire]

There is no way 6 guage (is it even true 6 G?) Is thick enough to power 1000 W RMS at 14 feet of cable.

Also the kit you bought is most likely Copper Clad Aluminum and not Copper.

You should go with 4G true copper. And any kit like that will cost $100+

If you must go with CCA and not Copper then at least get 4 G. I would return your 6 G.

You just have to know the right places to look.

4 Gauge Amplifier Installation Kit

 

[Party Boy]

If I replace the cables for 4GA, would that change your recommendation of amp?

 

[UnderFire]

If I replace the cables for 4GA, would that change your recommendation of amp?

Yes, I would reccomend the Hifonics brz1200.1 set to 1000w.

 

[GA Runner]

Are they gray or black? Ones that are gray in color are 2 ohm and black in color are 4 ohm.

Not necessarily, I have an older Type R 12" DVC that is 4 ohm and it is gray.

 

[GA Runner]

I am running an Alpine 12" Type R DVC 4 ohm in a 1 ft^3 box with an Alpine MRV-M500 and it gets off pretty damn good in the Runner. Going to rebuild the box to a ported one and tune it soon.

 

[BrianSD_42]

You just have to know the right places to look.

4 Gauge Amplifier Installation Kit

sorry dude but that is not copper. it is CCA which has about 1/2 current flow capacity as copper.

it is probably not American wire gauge (AWG), aka 4 AWG but rather just "4 Gauge" a term as meaningless as 4G Data Speed. Notice the kit doesn't say 4-AWG --- almost none for sale do.

dont get me wrong it will work for most peoples setups but is inferior to the $100+ kits and inferior to the full copper 4 gauge kit i bought in 2003.

the price of copper went up. this is how they compensated.

 

[BrianSD_42]

This chart ASSUMES you are running TRUE Copper 4 AWG.

Most of the 4Runner wire kits are 10-12 Feet.

If you are running Copper Clad Aluminum (aka most every kit below $100) then you will be about 1/2 as efficient as Copper.

So where the chart shows 4 Gauge you would be looking at 1/0 Gauge which is twice the thickness (I think, never used it myself) ...

They all show the same thing ... @ 10-12 Feet you NEED to have COPPER 4-AWG to handle 1000 W RMS.

All this talk aside, I'm not fully against CCA, just know that you need to modify how you read the charts. On my own vehicle I have a true Copper Kit I bought in 2003, back when it was cheaper running from the battery to below drivers side rear seat. From there I have a 2 ft cable that is CCA running to power each of two amps. My total cable length involving CCA is very small and this mainly because I didn't want to buy another expensive kit. But 10 feet of copper plus 2 feet of CCA is not the same as 12 feet of CCA only.


:behindsofa:

 

[Party Boy]

Yes, I would reccomend the Hifonics brz1200.1 set to 1000w.

This is on Amazon prime, which I'd get an additional 10% off of since my wife works for them, and free 2-day shipping. Would this work?

http://www.amazon.com/Hifonics-BRX1...-4&keywords=Hifonics+brz1200.1#productDetails

Or this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Hifonics-BRX1...-3&keywords=Hifonics+brz1200.1#productDetails

 

[UnderFire]

sorry dude but that is not copper. it is CCA which has about 1/2 current flow capacity as copper.

it is probably not American wire gauge (AWG), aka 4 AWG but rather just "4 Gauge" a term as meaningless as 4G Data Speed. Notice the kit doesn't say 4-AWG --- almost none for sale do.

dont get me wrong it will work for most peoples setups but is inferior to the $100+ kits and inferior to the full copper 4 gauge kit i bought in 2003.

the price of copper went up. this is how they compensated.

That is definitely copper, I'm running some in the 4runner right now, you are mistaking the silver color for Aluminum, when it is actually tinned to help prevent corrosion.

The KCA is their CCA line, and the Kollosus is nearly identical to Kicker Hyperflex, which is some of the most expensive wire you can get.

 

[UnderFire]

This is on Amazon prime, which I'd get an additional 10% off of since my wife works for them, and free 2-day shipping. Would this work?

Amazon.com: Hifonics BRX1600.1D Brutus Vehicle Mono Subwoofer Amplifier: Electronics

Or this one?

Amazon.com: Hifonics BRX1100.1D Brutus Vehicle Mono Subwoofer Amplifier: Electronics

I haven't had any experience with the new Brutus line (BRX), but I have had amps from the previous Brutus lines, and I can tell you either one of those will give you a clean 1000W just fine.

 

[UnderFire]

This chart ASSUMES you are running TRUE Copper 4 AWG.

Most of the 4Runner wire kits are 10-12 Feet.

If you are running Copper Clad Aluminum (aka most every kit below $100) then you will be about 1/2 as efficient as Copper.

So where the chart shows 4 Gauge you would be looking at 1/0 Gauge which is twice the thickness (I think, never used it myself) ...

They all show the same thing ... @ 10-12 Feet you NEED to have COPPER 4-AWG to handle 1000 W RMS.

All this talk aside, I'm not fully against CCA, just know that you need to modify how you read the charts. On my own vehicle I have a true Copper Kit I bought in 2003, back when it was cheaper running from the battery to below drivers side rear seat. From there I have a 2 ft cable that is CCA running to power each of two amps. My total cable length involving CCA is very small and this mainly because I didn't want to buy another expensive kit. But 10 feet of copper plus 2 feet of CCA is not the same as 12 feet of CCA only.


:behindsofa:

The problem with sticking strictly to AWG ratings in Car audio cable is that most of what the better companies are selling today are actually larger than AWG.

Here is a little comparison I did to show the difference between wire that is supposed to be the same size.

All three of the red ones are 1/0 sized wire from different companies, the cheapest being on the left, most expensive on the right.

But here's the twist, the black wire on the far left, is actually 2/0 AWG Welding cable, and being Welding cable it actually has to conform to AWG standards unlike Audio cable.

As you can see the more expensive car audio 1/0 wire (I believe the wire in this pic was Tsunami) is just barely under 2/0, the wire in the middle is actually very close to 1/0 AWG.

I've had a lot of different types of wire, and all of the high end Audio cable I've had has been around the same size as the Tsunami.

The difference is not as drastic in 4 gauge, but the higher end stuff is usually rated around 120A @ 17 feet from what I've seen, and after seeing different types compared to 4 AWG welding cable, I'm inclined to believe it.

The same can also apply to CCA cable, I've seen CCA 1/0 that was rated upwards of 200A, and actually closer to 2/0 as well, the reason I do not use it for power cable is because Aluminum does not hold up as well to the weather as copper (especially tinned)

 

[BrianSD_42]

you are mistaking the silver color for Aluminum

Dude, how can COPPER, an element have a silver color?

The only answer is that it is not copper. In the ad they never claim it is copper.

BTW the one on the right (that you say is the most expensive) does not look anything like 1/0 Wire. To me it looks like barely 4-gauge.

I know buying a true 4-AWG copper kit is a long shot these days but I wanted to point out that there is a huge difference in quality between the $40 kit and the $100 - $150 kits. You get what you pay for, in this case the value lies in the low resistance.

 

[UnderFire]

Dude, how can COPPER, an element have a silver color?

The only answer is that it is not copper. In the ad they never claim it is copper.

BTW the one on the right (that you say is the most expensive) does not look anything like 1/0 Wire. To me it looks like barely 4-gauge.

I know buying a true 4-AWG copper kit is a long shot these days but I wanted to point out that there is a huge difference in quality between the $40 kit and the $100 - $150 kits. You get what you pay for, in this case the value lies in the low resistance.

"The Kolossus Fleks Kable - High strand count, 99.99% purity tinned Oxygen Free Copper cables with an ultra-fleks PVC jacket. This stuff is flekskable. Suitable for all mobile and marine applications."

Simple, the wire is coated in tin to help combat corrosion as I stated earlier, the same process is used by kicker and Moster Cable. I'm not arguing here, just trying to help post factual information, and I mixed up sides on that, right is the cheapest (and is junk tbh, left is Tsunami 1/0.)

Paying 100$ for 20ft of 4 gauge you are getting ripped off, copper is around 2.60-2.75 a pound, and even 2/0 sized wire doesn't have a pound a foot, you're paying nearly 2/0 prices for 4 gauge, just because it comes in a kit.

Highly recommend reading this thread if you're wire shopping.

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/wiring-electrical-installation-help/515724-wire-comparison.html

 

[BrianSD_42]

It may be "99.99% purity tinned copper" as they say but that is very different from 99% copper with some tin added.

What you get could actually be 85% tin, 14.99% copper, and .01% dirt and still meet the definition above. The English language is awesome.

By the looks of it that's what it is , basically a tin wire with some copper somewhere, albiet invisible.

The website review was cool. A lot of work went into putting that together. I looked through all ten pages but was disappointed to see no one ever tested the resistance which is the $#@%&# most important factor.