Any damage if I keep everything else stock?

[whodat]

Hello, 2010 SR5 4x4. I have a Shrockworks front bumper on the way by the end of this month. I'm wondering with the added weight, should I be concerned if I don't modify anything else, like suspension, shocks, etc? I'm not too concerned about performance, no offroading here, mostly bought the 4R for snow and camping, and snow bording trips later on. Bought the bumper for possible deer/car collisions. Just worried if I will do any damage due to the extra weight. I'm also seriously considering beefy bump out sliders by Bud, mostly for extra sides protection in a possible car accident (have a 10 month and my wife is a horrible Asian driver!), plus will help with parking spaces n car doors hitting the sliders, not the 4R. If anyone gets a nice rear bumper with a swing-out tire carrier made, I'm definately looking into that too, again for extra "armor" but extra weight. Thanks in advance!

 

[brockeverly]

I would probably ask Shrockworks, but I would say that it will not be the greatest on the already soft front suspension.

 

[aeroneer1]

and my wife is a horrible Asian driver!

lol :lookout:

 

[aeroneer1]

and my wife is a horrible Asian driver!

lol :lookout:

 

[KCcarguy]

Bought the bumper for possible deer/car collisions.

Ironically, I think having all that weight up there with an already crappy stock setup might make it harder to avoid a collision. I can't imagine what that thing will be like under hard braking. You've already spent some big $$$ on the bumper. Why not spend another $400 and get some 5100s to level the front?

 

[tlflow]

Likely need some springs to go with those shocks.

 

[phillyd2]

Oh yes, you will need to upgrade the suspension. I'm still stock and with "only" a winch, skids and sliders installed and I more than feel the difference in the front. If I added such a heavy bumper I would not at all be surprised if the damn thing did somersaults down the road*

(* silly exaggeration added for my amusement)

 

[whodat]

Ironically, I think having all that weight up there with an already crappy stock setup might make it harder to avoid a collision. I can't imagine what that thing will be like under hard braking. You've already spent some big $$$ on the bumper. Why not spend another $400 and get some 5100s to level the front?

Well, here's the back story to my wife and accidents. She was in the passing lane and the car on the right lane decides to go into her lane, she saw that so she swerved left to avoid him. She spun across the highway median (grass) and across the oncoming traffic lanes and hit the rails. Honestly, she's lucky to be alive. And the loser who she avoided drove away. So, avoiding accidents is not in her future, as long as she has the right of way, she'll let them hit her, but this time she'll have extra armor and will be a little safer. She gets all worked up in situations like that, so it will be easier for her to take some damage instead of causing a lot of damage trying to avoid damage. She's had other accidents too, again, really surprised she's still alive. She's not an extremely bad driver, she can't think/react fast enough in situations like that. I've been trying to teach her how to drive defensively to avoid situations like that, but you know how wives are, they don't like to listen to husbands

So basically, performance to avoid accidents is not my primary concern (sometimes you just can't avoid accidents), just concerned if I should/have to upgrade anything else to prevent damage (due to extra weight) to the 4R n keep it as a family vehicle and DD for my wife and kid.

 

[Jtraskell]

Notwithstanding the good shock/spring advice, I would seriously consider getting stiffer sidewall tires. Those OEM's (if you still have them) are squishy enough without the extra front weight, add a few hundred pounds more up front and I do not think the results will be pretty in a hard braking action.

At least load range c, I recommend D. E may be a bit of overkill. (Unless you are doing heavy rock climbing)

 

[KCcarguy]

Well, here's the back story to my wife and accidents. She was in the passing lane and the car on the right lane decides to go into her lane, she saw that so she swerved left to avoid him. She spun across the highway median (grass) and across the oncoming traffic lanes and hit the rails. Honestly, she's lucky to be alive. And the loser who she avoided drove away. So, avoiding accidents is not in her future, as long as she has the right of way, she'll let them hit her, but this time she'll have extra armor and will be a little safer. She gets all worked up in situations like that, so it will be easier for her to take some damage instead of causing a lot of damage trying to avoid damage. She's had other accidents too, again, really surprised she's still alive. She's not an extremely bad driver, she can't think/react fast enough in situations like that. I've been trying to teach her how to drive defensively to avoid situations like that, but you know how wives are, they don't like to listen to husbands

So basically, performance to avoid accidents is not my primary concern (sometimes you just can't avoid accidents), just concerned if I should/have to upgrade anything else to prevent damage (due to extra weight) to the 4R n keep it as a family vehicle and DD for my wife and kid.

Tire Rack Street Survival

 

[whodat]

Notwithstanding the good shock/spring advice, I would seriously consider getting stiffer sidewall tires. Those OEM's (if you still have them) are squishy enough without the extra front weight, add a few hundred pounds more up front and I do not think the results will be pretty in a hard braking action.

At least load range c, I recommend D. E may be a bit of overkill. (Unless you are doing heavy rock climbing)

Very good point. But the SW bumper is 137 lbs, and I'm guessing the OEM bumper is between 30-50 lbs? So it's like having a fat 10 year old on the front end, I would hope the OEMs (which I do still have on, only 16k miles on them, still have visible treads) can handle a 100lb load. I am definately getting duratracs in the future, stock size, e load. My sister has the exact same setup, but hers is a 2011 mag gray and not even 1k miles on her stock tires. She doesn't have a lot of funds to mod everything, so I'm trying to find the cheapest and best alternatives, while at the same time knowing that u get what u pay for, it's very hard to do that, i'm just trying to get some priorities set before spending some $$$. We are both keeping the 4Rs till the wheels fall off

Thanks for the feedbacks. I'm not trying to argue back, just trying to play devil's advocate to see what would/could happen if my sister/I stayed stock.

 

[whodat]

Tire Rack Street Survival

Yes, that is something we talked about for her and she will take it, nothing from tire rack here, but there's a community college in town that has a safety driving course. Thanks for the link though. But like I said before, sometimes you can't avoid an accident, even when you notice one that's about to happen, it's too late (drunk drivers, deer, drivers on their smart phone typing up a response to toyota-4runner.org my wife driving 65 on a paved road and didn't realized the warning signs stating gravel road ahead-she gets on the gravel n loses control and rams into the ditch, etc )

 

[KCcarguy]

I can't speak for your community college, but I've heard great things about Street Survival and do think it might benefit her.

Anyway.....I would seriously consider LT rated tires and 5100's at all corners. That bumper won't make her invincible and it sounds like she needs all the help she can get. I had to brake hard on the interstate in my SR5 and it scared the hell out of me under hard braking (a big reason I went with a lift). It will be even worse with the bumper.

 

[Jtraskell]

Very good point. But the SW bumper is 137 lbs, and I'm guessing the OEM bumper is between 30-50 lbs? So it's like having a fat 10 year old on the front end, I would hope the OEMs (which I do still have on, only 16k miles on them, still have visible treads) can handle a 100lb load. I am definitely getting duratracs in the future, stock size, e load. My sister has the exact same setup, but hers is a 2011 mag gray and not even 1k miles on her stock tires. She doesn't have a lot of funds to mod everything, so I'm trying to find the cheapest and best alternatives, while at the same time knowing that u get what u pay for, it's very hard to do that, I'm just trying to get some priorities set before spending some $$$. We are both keeping the 4Rs till the wheels fall off

Thanks for the feedbacks. I'm not trying to argue back, just trying to play devil's advocate to see what would/could happen if my sister/I stayed stock.

Whodat, thanks for the feedback. No, I do not take it as an argument. It is a debate at best. On my 2010, I had "P" rated tires. These are tires that are designed to be appropriate for a passenger car. Hence the "P". We do not have a passenger car. We have a 5Klb body on frame 4wd "Truck" or "SUV" if you will. Notwithstanding any additional weight up front since I do not have the aftermarket bumper (which I would love to have, but do not need), the Dunlap tires that came with my 2010, (and apparently many of the 2011 and 2012's also) were CRAP! Every time I made a turn at a speed above say 20mph, I felt as though those tires were going to break loose from the wheels due to the "soft" side walls and greater body roll during a turn. In addition, I tried a couple of forced emergency braking maneuvers with the OEM's and felt the Nose dive and downward force on the tires are unsafe.

After trading in those OEM's for the tires as listed in my signature block below, all those issues were GONE! Body roll was reduced to a reasonable level, nose dive reduced, etc, etc. I did not (again personal opinion) need stronger shocks/springs, (although this is not a bad idea depending on situation) or any other suspension mods. This is why I consistently advocate changing the tires first, then see if you need/want to go forward depending your your particular situation and Cost Start from the ground up! Bigger, stiffer tires were enough to make my ride useful and driver friendly/safe for my purposes.

Now, specifically to your point. I have not had time to research this, but I am hopefull others like 1Engineer or Harper or even Antman can chime in, just think of the "force" of 100lbs traveling at let's say 50 mph. That 10 year old fat kid might actually be adding 1000LBS of "force" forward, and then question how much "downward" force is applied to the front tires.......I do not know or pretend to be able to figure it out. But I do know it does not take much more extra weight at speed to cause major problems for things designed to be handled at a lesser speed. Be Safe Bud, (which I know is your Goal).

 

[Jtraskell]

Here is another issue that may not apply to you since you already ordered the bumper mentioned in your OP for other reasons. Years ago, manufactures were mandated by law to build passenger cars with "crush zones". At that time, "Trucks" were excluded from the legal mandate. I am dating myself here, but at that time there were no such thing as an SUV's as such and especially a CUV. Those vehicles which fit that genre were called station wagons!

Now, some 20 or 30 years later, I am not sure, but I have a feeling that ALL vehicles are built with "crush zones". If I am correct, then by putting on a stiffer, heavier front bumper on a TR4 , you may in fact be causing more problems if involved in a collision then you realize. Yes, the bumper will be able to Handel a stronger impact, but the forces of that impact may be increased into the passenger compartment defeating at least some of the designed "crush zones" designed to reduce those forces.....just saying. All those overworked and underpaid engineers designed those vehicles to take an impact and keep the pasengers as safe as possible. They, and rightfully so, do not care how much damage the front end incurs. As long as it "absorbs" the impact, vs the bodies in the passenger compartment absorbing the impact.

If you think a stiffer, stronger bumper is going to better protect the passengers in the cab, I think you will find that is wrong. If stiffer stronger "anything", fenders, frames, etc. etc, would protect better, I think we all would still be driving vehicles made in the 50's and 60's, they were made like TANKS!

In addition, from both personal and professional experience, I can assure you that a stronger "bumper" will NOT (in most cases) reduce or protect you from damage or injuries from a Deer/Elk/Moose collision at speed.

Most of those animals, when hit, will collapse the bumper, grill, hood and then possibly the windshield. If the bumper does not collapse (as designed) then the animal (depending on the strike point) may be "forced" or "deflected" higher, ending up in the cab, just because the "bumper" did not collapse as designed.......just sayin. Be safe. (as much as you can.....)

 

[KCcarguy]

Expanding on what Jtraskell said. From my experience working in the OR, many severe injuries sustained in car wrecks are a result of sudden changes in momentum/ shearing forces, etc.. At high speed, that big bumper will not prevent your neck from breaking, your brain from bleeding, or your liver/ spleen lacerating.

It should also be pointed out that by adding a heavy front bumper and possibly making your vehicle harder to control, you could be increasing your risk for roll-over, etc.

I'm not trying to rag on you for adding this bumper for protection....maybe it'll work, and maybe not (I wish our resident engineer would chime-in on this). In the end, it's your truck and you have a right to do with it what you want. I hope you guys stay safe.

:thumb3:

 

[whodat]

Whodat, thanks for the feedback. No, I do not take it as an argument. It is a debate at best. On my 2010, I had "P" rated tires. These are tires that are designed to be appropriate for a passenger car. Hence the "P". We do not have a passenger car. We have a 5Klb body on frame 4wd "Truck" or "SUV" if you will. Notwithstanding any additional weight up front since I do not have the aftermarket bumper (which I would love to have, but do not need), the Dunlap tires that came with my 2010, (and apparently many of the 2011 and 2012's also) were CRAP! Every time I made a turn at a speed above say 20mph, I felt as though those tires were going to break loose from the wheels due to the "soft" side walls and greater body roll during a turn. In addition, I tried a couple of forced emergency braking maneuvers with the OEM's and felt the Nose dive and downward force on the tires are unsafe.

After trading in those OEM's for the tires as listed in my signature block below, all those issues were GONE! Body roll was reduced to a reasonable level, nose dive reduced, etc, etc. I did not (again personal opinion) need stronger shocks/springs, (although this is not a bad idea depending on situation) or any other suspension mods. This is why I consistently advocate changing the tires first, then see if you need/want to go forward depending your your particular situation and Cost Start from the ground up! Bigger, stiffer tires were enough to make my ride useful and driver friendly/safe for my purposes.

Now, specifically to your point. I have not had time to research this, but I am hopefull others like 1Engineer or Harper or even Antman can chime in, just think of the "force" of 100lbs traveling at let's say 50 mph. That 10 year old fat kid might actually be adding 1000LBS of "force" forward, and then question how much "downward" force is applied to the front tires.......I do not know or pretend to be able to figure it out. But I do know it does not take much more extra weight at speed to cause major problems for things designed to be handled at a lesser speed. Be Safe Bud, (which I know is your Goal).

I know what you're saying about turns over 20mph, normally I am a very cautious driver, not really in a hurry. But once in a while I am running a little late for work (in other words, I'm not there early) and I turn the corner kinda fast and the body roll is definitely there, and the tires "screech" a little too. I definitely see your point with the extra weight and sidewalls of the tires being pushed beyond its limit. I know my next upgrade will be tires. I'll take your advice and go from their if I need any other upgrade(s). After lurking so much on this forum, I learned a lot and I have been swayed to the duratracs. I know SeattleMike really liked them a lot and the guy just had a way of convincing people with his confidence. For me, getting some duratracs is kinda like paying homage to the guy. Every time I see one of his old posts, I think to myself, he punked us, he's still alive! But I look at the date and nope, RIP Mike. Sorry for the side track.

Funny how I read a thread about the motorcycle hitch the other day and 1Engineer was talking about the same thing with extra weight being add to the tongue due to bumps and and pot holes, something about vectors and such (sorry wasn't taking notes 1Engineer), so I understand what you're saying. Worse case scenario, I brake real hard, nose dive, and blow out my tires. Gotta get new tires honie, duratracs should do the trick

 

[tlflow]

Crumple zone are prevailent in unibody vehicles like cars (and some jeeps). Body on frame vehicles have the steel frame to provide structural integrity. By replacing your front bumper (aluminum 2X4) with a big old hunk of steel you truck will be substanially more resilient (please see attached link for example)

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/88067-why-shrockworks-definitely-worth-price.html

I am sure that the occassional deer will fair far worse, but the bumper is easily cleaned with soap and water!

I am sure that you will want to stiffin up the front end first, call a few vendors and discuss what you are doing and they can help you make a good decision.

ps1 You can't brake hard enough to blow out you tires, or endo you truck
ps2 Brake assist can't do it either ... but it will scare the crap out of you

 

[whodat]

I can't speak for your community college, but I've heard great things about Street Survival and do think it might benefit her.

Anyway.....I would seriously consider LT rated tires and 5100's at all corners. That bumper won't make her invincible and it sounds like she needs all the help she can get. I had to brake hard on the interstate in my SR5 and it scared the hell out of me under hard braking (a big reason I went with a lift). It will be even worse with the bumper.

I will have to look into the Street Survival more, she probably would really benefit from it, just need to find one that's close by. And I do understand that the bumper won't make her invincible, it's for those situations where a she can't really help it and hits someone like in this thread http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/88067-why-shrockworks-definitely-worth-price.html I believe he had his frame bent up a little and that was about it. The other car didn't look to good.

But I think the consensus will be leaning towards a lift/suspension upgrade due to the extra weight though. And it sounds very reasonable so far.

 

[tlflow]

I've seen a lot of whodats driving in BR and NO ... lots of armor it a good thing.