Axle Play at the Hub

[helo-mech]

I've looked around in yotatech and here and have found some CV axle play issues at the diff, but I haven't had any luck regarding axle play at the hub. I started looking due to a high pitched whine from the passenger side. I compared the driver side and the play is noticeably different. While the driver side might move a little in and out the passenger side has enough "Up/Down" play that you can actually hear it knocking inside the axle housing.

Any ideas?

 

[SV_Dude]

Without being able to see it in person, I would guess that your hub bearing is shot. I would pull it apart and inspect closely. Replace any damaged bearings before the damage gets too bad and you're replacing more than you want to replace.

 

[KidVermicious]

Without being able to see it in person, I would guess that your hub bearing is shot. I would pull it apart and inspect closely. Replace any damaged bearings before the damage gets too bad and you're replacing more than you want to replace.

Couldn't have said it better.

You've got two wheel bearings in there. You can get the one from the front, but you'll have to remove the rotor and pull a seal to get the one behind it. If one is shot, they both are.

Do you have the spindle nut socket? 54mm, and you won't find it at your local parts store.

 

[helo-mech]

I guess that is where my issue is. If by hub bearings you mean the inner and outer bearings, I replaced them two days ago, along with both races. In my mind though I am trying to figure out how this would affect the axle though. The bearings allow the hub to spin on the steering knuckle. The axle run through the steering knuckle. I don't have any play on the hub to the knuckle. It is all in the axle going through the knuckle.

 

[helo-mech]

Couldn't have said it better.

You've got two wheel bearings in there. You can get the one from the front, but you'll have to remove the rotor and pull a seal to get the one behind it. If one is shot, they both are.

Do you have the spindle nut socket? 54mm, and you won't find it at your local parts store.

Sorry a little slow to respond. I was outside trouble shooting. Yes this was all replaced.

Uploading video to Youtube now.

 

[KidVermicious]

I guess that is where my issue is. If by hub bearings you mean the inner and outer bearings, I replaced them two days ago, along with both races. In my mind though I am trying to figure out how this would affect the axle though. The bearings allow the hub to spin on the steering knuckle. The axle run through the steering knuckle. I don't have any play on the hub to the knuckle. It is all in the axle going through the knuckle.

Eh? I'm confused by how you're describing the slop. The axle comes out of the diff, the CV shaft bolts to the axle and goes through the spindle (on the bearings), and the hub bolts to the CV.

 

[helo-mech]

I prob should have said drive shaft instead of CV axle.

Here is a link to a video and a picture to try and explain what I mean. Thanks for taking the time on this.

IMG 0109 - YouTube

 

[KidVermicious]

Watched the video, and I don't think your bearings are seated properly. The bearings are the only thing supporting that CV shaft though the spindle, and if there's slop, it's gotta be in the bearings.

 

[DC runner]

seconded. Sounds like bearings.

 

[helo-mech]

Here is another picture without the hub. The play is here where the shaft is coming out of the knuckle.

 

[helo-mech]

Watched the video, and I don't think your bearings are seated properly. The bearings are the only thing supporting that CV shaft though the spindle, and if there's slop, it's gotta be in the bearings.

seconded. Sounds like bearings.

Roger. I'm slow with the posts. Was trying to upload another picture when these came in. I'll get started on the tear down.

 

[KidVermicious]

One other thing I suppose it could be would be the snap ring that keeps the CV from backing out of the spindle. Can't tell for sure from your picture, but I don't see the snap ring in there.

 

[helo-mech]

One other thing I suppose it could be would be the snap ring that keeps the CV from backing out of the spindle. Can't tell for sure from your picture, but I don't see the snap ring in there.

Yeah the snap ring and splined washer are in. I still think I may be explaining this wrong. I understand what everyone is saying about the bearings not being seated correctly but wouldn't that allow for play in the hub as well? I should be able to shake the wheel and get the opposite play. This play is there whether the tire is jacked or sitting on the ground with all the weight on it.

I can see the spindle when I shake the shaft. It is not moving at all and I can shake the crap out of the wheel and I'm getting no play. It is only that shaft that engages the locking hub that is moving.

 

[KidVermicious]

That shaft that interfaces with the hub is your CV shaft. It's supported by the bearings and located by the splined washer and snap ring. I'm a little fuzzy with medicine head, but I don't know how it could not be one of those things.

Do this. I'm looking on page FA50 of the FSM, and it gives you the tolerance for play right where you've got that slop. Measure the play, and make sure you're actually chasing a problem here.

 

[helo-mech]

Please take a look at this picture. In my head this is what I am seeing. With the number of people telling me it is the bearings I am willing to redo, I am just having a hard time understanding how these bearings, which do not come in contact with the shaft, would be providing support to the shaft in a static manner. I understand that there would be support of the shaft once the locking hub and bolt were installed, bushing on one end inside the spindle and the bolt keeping alignment with the hub, but with the spindle being a stationary structure and the axle passing through it, the purpose of the bearings would be to keep the hub aligned and spinning around the spindle would it not?

I am thinking that the spindle bushing would be the issue allowing the axle to have too much play inside the spindle.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[helo-mech]

Do this. I'm looking on page FA50 of the FSM, and it gives you the tolerance for play right where you've got that slop. Measure the play, and make sure you're actually chasing a problem here.

While checking this, I have noticed that the play varies, on each wheel, depending on different external forces. You may be right, the play in the shaft may not be an issue. There is no measurable thrust movement and the slop back and forth may be from simply not having them connected to the hub via the freewheel hub bolt.

 

[KidVermicious]

Please take a look at this picture. In my head this is what I am seeing. With the number of people telling me it is the bearings I am willing to redo, I am just having a hard time understanding how these bearings, which do not come in contact with the shaft, would be providing support to the shaft in a static manner. I understand that there would be support of the shaft once the locking hub and bolt were installed, bushing on one end inside the spindle and the bolt keeping alignment with the hub, but with the spindle being a stationary structure and the axle passing through it, the purpose of the bearings would be to keep the hub aligned and spinning around the spindle would it not?

I am thinking that the spindle bushing would be the issue allowing the axle to have too much play inside the spindle.

Thanks again for the help.

Ok, I see where we're missing eachother. It's been a bit since I've been that deep into my front end, but I don't think your picture is right. The knuckle/spindle doesn't rotate - the inner and outer wheel bearings are seated inside the knuckle/spindle assembly, directly supporting the CV shaft.

That's not to say the trouble couldn't be in the spindle bushing, I'd forgotten about that little bad boy. But the bearings are between the CV shaft and the housing, and if they're bad or not seated right, they'll cause the play you're describing.

 

[KidVermicious]

Wait - shoot. No, I think you're right, the bearings seat in the rotor/flange assembly, and rotate on the spindle. The CV shaft protrudes through the front of the spindle. Bearing slop would not cause the play you've got, you're right and I'm wrong.

I'm just gonna wander off and sit in the corner for a bit and think about what I've done.

 

[Levinz11]

Wait - shoot. No, I think you're right, the bearings seat in the rotor/flange assembly, and rotate on the spindle. The CV shaft protrudes through the front of the spindle. Bearing slop would not cause the play you've got, you're right and I'm wrong.

I'm just gonna wander off and sit in the corner for a bit and think about what I've done.

Haha. Isn't his problem caused by a bad brass bushing on the rear of the spindle. They make bearing kits that replace that brass bushing.

 

[Levinz11]

Check out this thread. spindle bushing question - YotaTech Forums arty: