BALL JOINTS: Sankei 555 (Moog/Raybestos) Poor Quality/Design Flaw??? My Findings...
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pluton
Senior Member
I'm sure some have used them, but let me make an observation...
Of all of the hundreds or thousands of parts in the whole wide world you can get for your 3rd gen 4Runner, the ONE that EVERYBODY AGREES shouldn't be aftermarket is the lower ball joints. Spend the $110 each.
AZBub
New member
Yes they have. They lasted to the end of the driveway and then they got the I TOLD YOU SO from anyone who has done even the tiniest amount of research on the subject.
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19963.4lsr5
New member
I’m having zero problems with greaseable CarQuest Lower Ball Joints.
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I'm an engineer and failure analyst for a heavy equipment manufacturer and this whole lower ball joint issue really interests me. I have no doubts that there are poorly made products on the market that will fail after a very short period in service, but I also believe there are many other factors at play that end up obscuring the true root cause:
1. Lifted vehicles. Strong possibility that the ball joints with stock geometry were never designed for the stress'/angles that people are placing on them by adding lifts. This is already commonly discussed. I know very little of ball joint design other than their basic assembly and operation, so I won't comment any further to avoid speculating.
2. Installer error. After searching multiple threads, I rarely see any comments about this possibility. Even with qualified technicians, workmanship issues are an everyday concern. Now replace that qualified technician with a DIYer like most of us on here, and that risk explodes. Dont get me wrong, I am in no way criticising the good people on these forums. Whether it is a hobby or a necessitiy, working on your 4Runner is a great thing to learn how to do. (I also do not by any means consider myself to be a qualified technician.) Incorrect installation such as misalignment of guide dowels, improper bolt torque, improper lubricant type or quantity, contamination, and many other factors are real world concerns that will cut a ball joint's life in half or less.
I won't offer any advice or try and steer users any one way or another. When in doubt, OEM is the best option when possible. However, the "ONLY OEM HERE IS A LINK" claims seem quite anecdotal. Yes, if you buy a shady LBJ for $15 from amazon/ebay, may God have mercy on you; however, there are other reputable brands. No mainstream automotive parts company wants to design and manufacture a product that will kill its consumers. That is bad buisness.
My biggest reason for this rant is availability. Where I live, OEM LBJs cost in the neighborhood of $400 CAD for one. I cannot justify putting that in my ~$2500 CAD 4Runner and have opted for other brands (namely ACDelco Professional line). If you opt for a reputable brand and are still concerned, check for end play as per the service manual every oil change as susggested by other members.
So when this topic is innevitably brought up again for the 356th time, commenting "ONLY OEM" may be logical for my friends south of the border, but consider adding other constructive thoughts/facts lest there be a lowly Canadian listening in and buying OEM means remortgaging the house.
As an aside, if you are unfortunate enough to have one of yours fail, feel free to message me pics. I don't know what I will be able to determine just from looking at it, but maybe I could see something of value for the community's sake.
1. Lifted vehicles. Strong possibility that the ball joints with stock geometry were never designed for the stress'/angles that people are placing on them by adding lifts. This is already commonly discussed. I know very little of ball joint design other than their basic assembly and operation, so I won't comment any further to avoid speculating.
2. Installer error. After searching multiple threads, I rarely see any comments about this possibility. Even with qualified technicians, workmanship issues are an everyday concern. Now replace that qualified technician with a DIYer like most of us on here, and that risk explodes. Dont get me wrong, I am in no way criticising the good people on these forums. Whether it is a hobby or a necessitiy, working on your 4Runner is a great thing to learn how to do. (I also do not by any means consider myself to be a qualified technician.) Incorrect installation such as misalignment of guide dowels, improper bolt torque, improper lubricant type or quantity, contamination, and many other factors are real world concerns that will cut a ball joint's life in half or less.
I won't offer any advice or try and steer users any one way or another. When in doubt, OEM is the best option when possible. However, the "ONLY OEM HERE IS A LINK" claims seem quite anecdotal. Yes, if you buy a shady LBJ for $15 from amazon/ebay, may God have mercy on you; however, there are other reputable brands. No mainstream automotive parts company wants to design and manufacture a product that will kill its consumers. That is bad buisness.
My biggest reason for this rant is availability. Where I live, OEM LBJs cost in the neighborhood of $400 CAD for one. I cannot justify putting that in my ~$2500 CAD 4Runner and have opted for other brands (namely ACDelco Professional line). If you opt for a reputable brand and are still concerned, check for end play as per the service manual every oil change as susggested by other members.
So when this topic is innevitably brought up again for the 356th time, commenting "ONLY OEM" may be logical for my friends south of the border, but consider adding other constructive thoughts/facts lest there be a lowly Canadian listening in and buying OEM means remortgaging the house.
As an aside, if you are unfortunate enough to have one of yours fail, feel free to message me pics. I don't know what I will be able to determine just from looking at it, but maybe I could see something of value for the community's sake.
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Kanoe
New member
Hey fellow Canadian,
Check out these guys, I order all my major purchases from them. Shipping takes a week or two so plan accordingly. How long have you been here and why didn't you just ask?? We could have saved you some hard feelings and a lot of typing.
1999 Toyota 4Runner LUXURY(-0008),LIMITED(000
3400CC EFI, AUTOMATIC 4-SPEED Joint assembly, lower ball, front left. Joint, ball. Joint, ball - 4334039465 | Toyota Parts Direct, London ON$172.68 per side in Canada in Canadian dollars. I have just saved you $454.64 and now the AC delcos don't look like such a bargain.
Or pick up your major purchases in the US next time you are down, about $110 US per side. I have a new spare set in my parts bin for future use.
I feel OEM is worth the premium but that is my experience and my opinion only. I look forward to your future input, maybe they are as good as OEM but I'm not going to try myself.
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No hard feelings at all! You made some great observations in your first post (edit: mistook another comment as yours). My comment was just to highlight some other possible reasons for the low-hour ball joint failures people have experienced with after-market parts.
Thanks for the link, though. I have come across that website before and nearly ordered the ball joints from them. The premium line options from Rockauto with a known reputation are just too hard to ignore for half the price. If I notice issues with my ACDelco LBJs, I will be sure to say so.
Thanks for the link, though. I have come across that website before and nearly ordered the ball joints from them. The premium line options from Rockauto with a known reputation are just too hard to ignore for half the price. If I notice issues with my ACDelco LBJs, I will be sure to say so.
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Not my intent to discourage people from repairing their own vehicle. Workmanship issues are a fact of life. Triple check your fasteners, use torque specs, clean mating surfaces/fasteners, etc. Follow walkthroughs on this site while supplementing with the factory service manual to minimize that risk.
RandyBobandy
New member
the install error likely comes from over torquing the bolts, I remember seeing at least one post about bolt failure on the lower ball joints. another good reason not to take it to some random shop that will tighten them to the point of breaking with an impact
T4R2014
Elite Member
Good luck EVER getting that universally accepted as a cause on this forum.
austintaco
Member
I just fired off an email to Lowrange. I replaced everything on the front end last year, July 2019, and somehow I missed the issue with 555 labeled parts. I bought from Lowrange and they were advertised as OEM Japanese. It’s been just over a year and the outer tie rods and LBJ’s are rusted to crap. Luckily, I only have about 5K miles on them, but I’m going to pull them and get factory unless Lowrange has a good explanation and the rust is superficial.
BTW, I live in Austin, TX. No beach trips or salt on the road.
RAD4Runner
Senior Member
Absolutely.
Why? "Official" Lower Ball-Joint Thread here.
Special Service Campaign 50J – Front Suspension Lower Ball Joint, 2001 through 2002 4Runner, Safety Recall Notice:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2005/RCONL-05V225-6542.pdf
Should really apply to all 3rd gen years based on above explanation but talk to Toyota lawyers about that.
G_Raw
New member
Keep me posted. Mine are rusty too. It appears superficial though
Is it true OEM LBJ’s still have “555” marked on them? Pretty sure I read that somewhere. Shop I took it to was an employee of my father’s way back in the day. I insisted on OEM. And paid for that. Upon picking truck up he insisted LBJ OTRE and End links were all OEM. Truck was there over weekend so I assumed he went to Toyota dealership for parts. I told him about the importance of going OEM in these trucks and the LBJ failure thing. But I remember seeing ‘555’ stamped on them after install and him mentioning greasing somewhere before I left??? Hasn’t been a year and there’s a lot of surface rust and I’m in SF Bay Area. I provided part numbers and everything. It was last second thing, dad was bringing his Mercedes there for other work and said he’d cover my stuff too. Or else I would have ordered parts myself and done it at another time. $500 was initially my cost including labor. But of course my dad insisted on a huge tip for both cars afterwards.
Anyway if there’s something to look for to know for sure, please let a brother know! I’m lifting it soon and will be doing light off-roading and want to know. I would also have a bone to pick with this guy.
Anyway if there’s something to look for to know for sure, please let a brother know! I’m lifting it soon and will be doing light off-roading and want to know. I would also have a bone to pick with this guy.
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T4topher
Member
I’m in SF as well, not 100% sure but I don’t think 555 is stamped on the oem stuff.. OEM doesn’t haven’t a zerk fitting to put grease into also. Lets see what others say. Honestly at 500$ I’d be surprised if they were OEM, 200-300$ for parts 200$ for labor/overhead? Should be higher labor cost IMO.
