Best Dual Battery Setup for a 5th Gen 4Runner

[Cytronus]

Hey guys, I have a 2016 Trail and ready to get a dual battery kit installed. I know very little about how best to do this given the specifics of what I'm looking to accomplish and I'm hoping some of you experts might offer up your best recommendations. The existing few posts & threads I've seen aren't exactly confidence inspiring.

I'm a fan of Odyssey batteries and have seen the Kodiak dual Odyssey PC1200 battery kit by Kodiak Industries. I've sent them a couple of e-mails and left a voice mail but no replies and no recent posts or threads on the web so I'm assuming that system has fallen out of favor, perhaps because each battery weighs 37 lbs or perhaps because there are better options out there now which I'm unaware of. But I do like the dry cell tech and longer life.

Currently my engine bay is stock with the exception of a high output 270 amp XP alternator by DC Power that replaced the OEM alternator in preparation for the coming accessories and dual batteries.

What I'd like to do is have enough power to feed accessories, some of which can be used while the engine is off - like CB, ham, and fridge, and some only while the engine is on, like the winch and air compressor. I'd like to isolate the batteries to prioritize charging of the starter battery first until it's fully charged, whereby the isolator then automatically allows charging to flow to the auxiliary battery. I'd also like to be able to use the auxiliary battery to jump a dead main starter battery if need be as well.

I also have the sPod Source 8 Circuit SE unit with 30 amp max per circuit. This will be used to provide power and switch control, via touch screen display in cabin, to LED light bars, fridge, possibly a second inverter and not sure what else yet. It will also serve as a switch control (not power) for turning on the winch and ARB dual air compressor, both of which will be connected directly to the starter battery.

Here is a list of accessories I'll be adding:

• ARB Dual Air compressor with 56 - 68 amp max draw, so will connect direct to main starter battery, as recommended by sPod engineer, Josh)

• Warn Xeon Platinum 10-S winch. 311 - 465 amp draw in use. Will connect directly to main starter battery, keeping all other accessories off during winching.

• Rigid Ind. SR20 LED light bar for front bumper (7 amps)

• Rigid Ind. SR 40" Combo LED light bar above windshield (12 amps)

• Rigid Ind. ditch lights up front and 2 dually for rear flood (5 amps)

• 50 - 52 liter fridge (on without engine or ignition on. 3 amps)

• CB Radio (on with ignition but no need for engine on. 2 amps)

• 400 watt inverter (on with ignition. 35 amps)

I'm really at a loss on how to assemble this, how to diagram it, the wire gauges needed, and other considerations I'm missing, etc. For anyone willing to help me spec this out, I'd be willing to pay for your expertise - bonus if you're local in the San Francisco bay area. Thanks all in advance for any advice.

 

[JSparky]

You seem to have a really good grasp of what you're looking for. I'd be happy to help, I just got done installing a dual battery system in mine and you're welcome to check out what I did. Used a blue sea ACR with dual voltmeter hooked up to a remote fuse box in the back of the truck. Shoot me a private message if you're interested.

 

[borfoo3]

My advice would be to get the simplest setup you can afford that acheives most of what you want.. Helps a lot for troubleshooting when your offroad and away from the experts. Also, be sure to have a solid mount for that 2nd batt as I've seen a few go loose or bend after some hard bumps carrying that weight.

My setup has been flawless so far with the exception of 1 incident from a loose ground wire that disabled the isolator from charging the aux battery. You can see pics and details on it in my thread.

With that in mind, dual batts is definetly the way to go!

 

[Bumbo]

I haven't done a 5th Gen yet, but I have to my 4t,h but hopefully this helps anyways.

Once you get past anything very basic you might not have an easy time finding a turnkey solution depending on your needs.

I started by knowing what I wanted it to do, and what it was for, and you already know that.

You have some good foundation work like the alternator... and the truck is pretty new but sometimes its easier just to do a terminal refresh so you can start making use of different battery connectors. I lopped off all the factory ends and moved to lug connections.

Once you start working with those good quality milspec battery terminals you can comfortably stack 4 connects per post...

I made all my own cables, cut to length, 2 layers of shrink, one clear marine adhesive lined for water proofing and corrosion protection and a black to protect that.

I bought a bunch of quality lugs from a reputable vendor and a hydrolic crimper with dies to crimp.

For all my wire sizing, load calculations, and testing I used calculator tools from the internet along with physical testing equipment. You can't do a project like this (or shouldn't) without a DMM, and or a clamp meter. I like those simple in-line meters for plug and play measurements too.

I was monitoring each battery bank and had a DC clamp meter to look at both voltage drop and amp draw for various accessories. I basically used this process to figure out wire and fuse sizing and added.

DC meter is always in the truck/tool bag for trail repair or trouble shooting.

I also added items like a programmable Low Voltage Disconnect (next to the fuse block) to protect the system from over-discharge. Really give you piece of mine and protection.

I honestly started this project by getting a 6 pack of beer on a Friday and shopping session on Amazon.

You can customize and design these things to your hearts content, but I also agree on keeping it simple. That said, I also wanted it to be robust and well designed so its worry free on the trail. I just needed it to work and take care of itself.

Doing it yourself really gives you the option to make sure its done right... learn the system, and know how to maintain it or fix it. Also, considering how much manual labor and time was spent under the hood... I don't think I could have afforded to pay someone to do it, not at least the way I wanted it done.

I also added a smaller dc sub-panel inside off the LVD protected main.

This feeds various Anderson Powerpole connects around the truck for accessory loads.

Keep on eye on the little things too... The devil is in the details...stay away from junk components like cheap terminal blocks like those often seen in car stereo. Use things like these...

Fuses and cable lugs are connected with a nut... IMO the only way to do it in an off-road truck. Those screw down car stereo fuse blocks are asking for trouble on the trail.

Good luck with the build... just stick with quality components and you should be good to go. Even if you have someone build it out I would try and get involved in the design process to make sure you get what you want and what you paid for.

 

[Dbentley]

National Luna Dual Battery System

I just recently installed NL's Dual battery system. Its amazing and very easy to install. I'd say from my experience & everything you're wanting to install you need to figure out the layout of all your components. I used shrockworks dual battery tray for my secondary battery. It uses structural mounting points at the front of the passenger side in the engine bay. I know with a 2016 there is more components that need to be relocated towards the back of the engine bay in this area. Overall, you need to start laying out your system and take into consideration where you can fix your auxiliary system. There's multiple ways to do this, but it does come at a price, & that price can be rather steep. I've posted my setup in the "what did you do in your 5th gen today" thread if you'd like to check it out.

 

[HerT4R]

just going to leave this already existing 5th gen dual battery options thread here:

Dual Battery Systems

to be honest there are other forums better at broaching the dual battery setup topic (notably expedition portal forums, like this thread which is one of MANY).

i recommend doing some google searches, not just at this forum. The first thread i linked to will give you an idea about battery trays and items specific to the 5th gen. A simple google search for "Dual battery with winch", "dual battery setup truck", "dual battery wiring diagram", etc. will give you more reading material and resources than you will know what to do with, but after some reading and comparison of items you will learn the pros and cons of each setup.

If you dont want to do the background work just go buy a battery tray (budbuilt and shrockworks sell those off the shelf), a dual battery kit (like IBS or NL, they take all the guess work and thinking out of the equation), another battery (or two that are of the same size and age and get rid of your old one), and hook it all up and you are in business.

:hippie:

 

[Liquidmantis]

If you dont want to do the background work just go buy a battery tray (budbuilt and shrockworks sell those off the shelf), a dual battery kit (like IBS or NL, they take all the guess work and thinking out of the equation), another battery (or two that are of the same size and age and get rid of your old one), and hook it all up and you are in business.

:hippie:

Off-Grid Engineering has a drop-in solution if you want to just throw money at the problem.

 

[Cytronus]

Great info everyone, thank you!

Hey guys, thank you all for the info, links, resources and ideas and for being gracious in the delivery. Exceptional group of guys here.

I do like the Shrockworks tray and National Luna kit with isolator and controller. Great stuff. Any ideas how that would connect to the sPod Source or does it connect to it at all?

I do plan on installing the system myself or with the help of someone more expert than I for the little details I have trouble understanding, such as wire gauge, proper cutting and terminating, etc.. I do have a DMM (Digital Multi-meter) and a Volt Meter to use as I do this. I'm familiar with grounding and sheathing positive wiring. I'm also a perfectionist who cares about the details. I'm not concerned with price at all. I'd like to go with the best products, period. A vehicle's electrical system isn't something to trifle with.

Another thing I can't seem to figure out is what primary battery and aux battery to run. Should they be the same? Different? What about deep cycle batteries for aux/accessories? Any advantages/disadvantages? What brands are you all into or have had the best performance with? Any issues or things to avoid?

Also, I remembered today that I will be buying a camper trailer that will have a fridge, lights, water pump, gas hot water heater, and electric brakes with 2 batteries, likely Lithium. Any considerations for using power from the car when running to charge the batteries in the camper trailer? How's that typically done?

I'll get the list finalized and share it here before pulling the trigger for input. Thanks again all! Gunning ahead! http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/images/smilies/uzi.gif

 

[HerT4R]

Hey guys, thank you all for the info, links, resources and ideas and for being gracious in the delivery. Exceptional group of guys here.

I do like the Shrockworks tray and National Luna kit with isolator and controller. Great stuff. Any ideas how that would connect to the sPod Source or does it connect to it at all?

I do plan on installing the system myself or with the help of someone more expert than I for the little details I have trouble understanding, such as wire gauge, proper cutting and terminating, etc.. I do have a DMM (Digital Multi-meter) and a Volt Meter to use as I do this. I'm familiar with grounding and sheathing positive wiring. I'm also a perfectionist who cares about the details. I'm not concerned with price at all. I'd like to go with the best products, period. A vehicle's electrical system isn't something to trifle with.

Another thing I can't seem to figure out is what primary battery and aux battery to run. Should they be the same? Different? What about deep cycle batteries for aux/accessories? Any advantages/disadvantages? What brands are you all into or have had the best performance with? Any issues or things to avoid?

Also, I remembered today that I will be buying a camper trailer that will have a fridge, lights, water pump, gas hot water heater, and electric brakes with 2 batteries, likely Lithium. Any considerations for using power from the car when running to charge the batteries in the camper trailer? How's that typically done?

I'll get the list finalized and share it here before pulling the trigger for input. Thanks again all! Gunning ahead! http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/images/smilies/uzi.gif

you need an expedition portal account, STAT!

something like this setup would do what you want. Typ. high amp anderson connectors covered with a good amount of dielectric grease is the way to go, IMO. You need to go over there dude. Everyone on there has a trailer and a setup ready to go, they are tinkerers to the max and have already tried and done everything you want to do, TWICE.

Also always use high gauge wire, esp. if it is travelling a longer distance, the longer the distance the smaller gauge the wire should be. For going to a trailer i would probably run 2/0 welding lead with hydraulically crimped ends in an anderson connector to a mounting point on/near the rear of the vehicle... hit up the expedition portal forums, i recommend it for dual battery setup writeups, questions, etc.

 

[Cytronus]

Dual battery best practices - to fuse or not to fuse?

Hey guys, is anyone running large fuses at each battery in front of all wires coming into each battery like this Mega Fuse kit? They range from 100A to 500A. Not sure how the right Amperage would be selected. Any thoughts? Seems like a good idea to me to save batteries and wiring in the event of a short or over load.

 

[Cytronus]

Like this kit but want the aux battery in the front left

Off-Grid Engineering has a drop-in solution if you want to just throw money at the problem.

Great kit but I want to keep the passenger side firewall corner free for the dual air compressor. I'll definitely be installing the aux battery toward the front passenger side. Thanks for the info though. Love the kit components, especially those tie downs.

 

[Liquidmantis]

Great kit but I want to keep the passenger side firewall corner free for the dual air compressor. I'll definitely be installing the aux battery toward the front passenger side. Thanks for the info though. Love the kit components, especially those tie downs.

I'm juggling this too, as that is where my compressor is mounted currently. Slee makes a bracket to mount the compressor on the drive side, behind the fuse box. Right now I'm hashing out the perfect combination of on-board air, on-board battery charger, SPOD, and potential washer reservoir and smog pump relocation, and potentially squeezing in a dual battery.

 

[JSparky]

Hey guys, is anyone running large fuses at each battery in front of all wires coming into each battery like this Mega Fuse kit? They range from 100A to 500A. Not sure how the right Amperage would be selected. Any thoughts? Seems like a good idea to me to save batteries and wiring in the event of a short or over load.

Yes, you want to fuse everything, especially in the front of the vehicle to protect yourself in the event of a collision. I've seen those mega fuses but I use either midi or a terminal block like this one:

https://www.bluesea.com/products/5191/MRBF_Terminal_Fuse_Block_-_30_to_300A

Depends on your current demands.

 

[greatape]

Just depends on vision/use..my use, I run the National Luna Portable Power Pack w/optima YT in the cargo bay with an AIMS 600W pure sine wave inverter w/2 AC outlets and USB station plus installing a 200W solar system that will integrate. Fits my use and carefully planning dimensions and such with the other gear in the cargo area will complete my sustained needs for extended periods. Of course, other solutions like Shrockworks for ex look good too and you can integrate a lot under the hood as well...wouldn't say there is a best setup but just think of your long term goals for the rig and go from there w/capabilities you want, hardware choice, room you have and where...etcc...

 

[Cytronus]

Here's what I have so far:

Design considerations:

-Aux battery: Odyssey 25-PC1400 (850 CCA, 65 Hrs at 20 Hr Capacity)
-Aux battery tray: Shrockworks with air pump relocator
-National Luna Isolator and battery controller
-Support all non-factory accessories via an auxiliary battery
-Ability to jump start from the auxiliary battery
-Support Warn Xeon Platinum 10-S Winch (311 to 465 Amps)
-Support ARB Dual Air Compressor (CKMTA12) with room for bracket
-Power sPOD Source SE with 8 channels for smaller sub-30 Amp accessories
-Support future accessories: Inverter, camper trailer anderson plug, upgraded sound system

Per National Luna, no fuses are to be installed between the isolator and batteries, to ensure the winch may consume high non-continuous amperage draws from the system. Per Warn, no fuse or circuit breaker is installed between the winch and battery.

 

[Cytronus]

Updated dual battery wiring diagram after input from Paul Mayes at Equipt

I called up Paul Mayes at Equipt Expedition Outfitters, a legend & knowledge king and all-around great guy in the off road community. He suggested to wire up the winch directly to the main starter battery, with everything else I'm planning to the Aux battery. Josh at sPOD Source suggested the same. NO FUSES between the winch and battery and no fuses necessary between the batteries and isolator.

Why winch from the main battery? The isolator prioritizes alternator charging to the starter battery first. While winching, the starter battery will drain quickly but will simultaneously be charged by the alternator, so essentially, the winch will run off the alternator. If the winch is connected to the Aux battery, it will drain quickly and if it drops below a certain point, will connect to the starter battery via the isolator for more power, thus routing current through the main battery, through the isolator, through the Aux battery, to the winch. If winching amperage draws are too high, it puts risk of fault and failure on the isolator. The National Luna isolator, and most others, are about 80-85 amps with peak load of about 400 amps. With a winch working hard, it can exceed 400 amps, although this is rare. Better safe than sorry.

Here's the new diagram. I'll begin installing items over the next few weeks, then will estimate wiring lengths, will then calculate the wiring gauge needed based on those lengths and individual accessory max amperage draws.

 

[Swarty]

Curious

Here's the new diagram. I'll begin installing items over the next few weeks, then will estimate wiring lengths, will then calculate the wiring gauge needed based on those lengths and individual accessory max amperage draws.

Why not have the switch for the compressor through the SPOD? The ARB uses a relay switch so it only pulls a couple milliamps.

 

[Liquidmantis]

Why not have the switch for the compressor through the SPOD? The ARB uses a relay switch so it only pulls a couple milliamps.

The plus is that ties it into the SPOD's wiring harness. The negative is that it's redundant and uses one of the SPOD's relay circuits.

I already had my compressor wired so when installing my relay box I left the compressor as is. I'm using a simpler relay box though and don't have the benefit of the SPOD's low-voltage cutoff, but I also have my compressor switch tied to a switched hot as I only run the compressor with the engine running anyway.

 

[phillyd2]

You seem to have a really good grasp of what you're looking for. I'd be happy to help, I just got done installing a dual battery system in mine and you're welcome to check out what I did. Used a blue sea ACR with dual voltmeter hooked up to a remote fuse box in the back of the truck. Shoot me a private message if you're interested.

Yep. Simple and bulletproof. Have the same on the 4R, 250 and even the ATV.

 

[Bk6418]

I know very little about Dual battery set-ups at the moment, but where would a fridge wire into this diagram?