Best speculation of a 2023 6th generation I have seen

[KimchiJae]

I did not originate the Land Cruiser news, it was [MENTION=166416]Carmaker1[/MENTION] last year, you know, the guy with a good track record.

Motor Trend and a Toyota exec are not what I would call click bait. David of Automotive Press youtube channel, now that is clickbait.

If you don't want to read speculation, it maybe best to unsubscribe from the speculation thread.

It's crazy how the one singular guy that has any credibility on this board is labeled an armchair expert and clickbait.

Carmaker1 has pretty accurately predicted the GR Corolla, the release date of the Tundra and Sequoia, the USDM Toyota Crown, and the introduction of the Grand Highlander (which was officially confirmed by Toyota 3 days ago). He also was the first to predict the delays of the 4Runner.

I'm pretty certain guys like David just read the forums like the rest of us and have no actual contacts within Toyota like Carmaker1 has.

 

[gomiami]

I did not originate the Land Cruiser news, it was [MENTION=166416]Carmaker1[/MENTION] last year, you know, the guy with a good track record.

Motor Trend and a Toyota exec are not what I would call click bait. David of Automotive Press youtube channel, now that is clickbait.

If you don't want to read speculation, it maybe best to unsubscribe from the speculation thread.

That was the person I was calling click bait...David of Automotive Press.

I'm not sure where this misunderstanding came from but I try to be respectful to everyone. Rather than take offense to something that wasn't even intended, please ask for clarification first.

That would move the conversation forward much more effectively than suggesting someone leave the thread. This isn't an echo chamber. It's an open forum for everyone. Thanks.

 

[gomiami]

Friends,

When I quote one user, in this case blackwatch, and we have a dialogue back and forth, I am directing my comments specifically to that person and what he or she wrote, not to every person involved in every post in a 31-page thread.

If I make a general comment without any quotation, then feel free to carve me up if you disagree. A general statement IS to everyone and I'll take whatever you dish out.

We all dig the 4Runner which is why we are here. Let's try to get along...

 

[Blackwatch]

My comment wasn't critical of you...more critical of the guy speculating on the 2024 Land Cruiser. It was click bait. There is no way Toyota pulls a General Motors and has the Prado in the US as both the Lexus GX and the new LC. By the way, the US price point you guessed at is the current price point of the base model GX.

Oh no, I didn't take that as a critical remark. Lexus IS bringing out a TX model which is the Grand Highlander. There have been a few other Toyota /Lexus models that were copies of one another. The GX 550 is supposed to be more of an off road vehicle so I could see them dropping the Prado name and just calling it the LC, make it more of a Pro model/70 series look? Just the LC name would sell if it had a rough rugged look.
All that aside, if they went with the detuned SR Tundra 3.44 tt I would be concerned with it's longterm reliability.

Automotive press is clickbait but I think this last video makes sense. At least he didn't mention he's an engineer in this one I'm sure David from AP is on here taking notes.

 

[gomiami]

Oh no, I didn't take that as a critical remark. Lexus IS bringing out a TX model which is the Grand Highlander. There have been a few other Toyota /Lexus models that were copies of one another. The GX 550 is supposed to be more of an off road vehicle so I could see them dropping the Prado name and just calling it the LC, make it more of a Pro model/70 series look? Just the LC name would sell if it had a rough rugged look.
All that aside, if they went with the detuned SR Tundra 3.44 tt I would be concerned with it's longterm reliability.

Automotive press is clickbait but I think this last video makes sense. At least he didn't mention he's an engineer in this one I'm sure David from AP is on here taking notes.

Yeah, I could see Toyota slapping the LC name on something just to make a buck or two. The problem I see is, when Toyota offers a Lexus equivalent, the Lexus model is priced double-digit percentage points above its Toyota cousin to justify the Lexus brand prestige designation.

That's going to make the TX and the redesigned GX give people a sticker price coronary. For example, the LX pricing is asinine but they had to do it to keep the $$$ gap between it and the Sequoia.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

That was the person I was calling click bait...David of Automotive Press.

I'm not sure where this misunderstanding came from but I try to be respectful to everyone. Rather than take offense to something that wasn't even intended, please ask for clarification first.

That would move the conversation forward much more effectively than suggesting someone leave the thread. This isn't an echo chamber. It's an open forum for everyone. Thanks.

Peace, my apologies, but when I read a post that references "the guy speculating", and I was the last guy speculating in the thread, then it seemed that was who the poster was referring to. It is best not to assume we know who you mean when you say "the guy", if you were inferring David of Automotive Press, it is best practice to use the name and not assume the rest of us know who you are referring to.

Even if your reply may have been to one person, all of us read the thread in continuous context and don't skip over a post because it is a reply to someone else. Each person's posts can add to the overall picture of the information we are all seeking, so not reading a post in reply to someone else defeats the purpose of a forum.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

Back to the "this is not speculation" category, my son-in-law is a Toyota master technician, recently their general manager told them about the new Land Cruiser coming out. That it would be smaller that the existing Land Cruiser 300 but priced above the 4Runner.

Why is this important news? For over a year I've been asking him if he has heard anything about the new 6th gen 4Runner, but not a word. So the fact that he has now heard something about the new Land Cruiser first, may possibly, infer that it is coming out before the 6th gen 4Runner, which is inline with other rumors posted here.

Second, it is another corroborating piece of evidence that the new US Land Cruiser is real and may in-fact be coming to US dealers within the next year or so.

 

[balong48]

If it's a derivative of the Prado then possibly, but I don't see any thing else besides the LC 300 and LC Prado. If Toyota is dual-naming a product, they list it in the same line - see Hilux Surf / 4Runner. The redesigned Prado is currently set to start production on November 6, 2023 and the redesigned Lexus GX is set to start production October 2, 2023 - both at Tahara.



Regarding TX/Grand Highlander, we can see the program codes are very similar and the current start dates are close as well - both at Princeton. However, with one being a Lexus line and the other being Toyota, they have separate line items.

 

[balong48]

If it's a derivative of the Prado then possibly, but I don't see any thing else besides the LC 300 and LC Prado. If Toyota is dual-naming a product, they list it in the same line - see Hilux Surf / 4Runner. The redesigned Prado is currently set to start production on November 6, 2023 and the redesigned Lexus GX is set to start production October 2, 2023 - both at Tahara.

View attachment 401504

Regarding TX/Grand Highlander, we can see the program codes are very similar and the current start dates are close as well - both at Princeton. However, with one being a Lexus line and the other being Toyota, they have separate line items.

View attachment 401505

Forgot to include the Land Cruiser 300 on the above screenshot.

 

[gomiami]

Peace, my apologies, but when I read a post that references "the guy speculating", and I was the last guy speculating in the thread, then it seemed that was who the poster was referring to. It is best not to assume we know who you mean when you say "the guy", if you were inferring David of Automotive Press, it is best practice to use the name and not assume the rest of us know who you are referring to.

Even if your reply may have been to one person, all of us read the thread in continuous context and don't skip over a post because it is a reply to someone else. Each person's posts can add to the overall picture of the information we are all seeking, so not reading a post in reply to someone else defeats the purpose of a forum.

Whatever you say, Sir. Trolling defeates the purpose of a forum as well.

 

[gomiami]

If it's a derivative of the Prado then possibly, but I don't see any thing else besides the LC 300 and LC Prado. If Toyota is dual-naming a product, they list it in the same line - see Hilux Surf / 4Runner. The redesigned Prado is currently set to start production on November 6, 2023 and the redesigned Lexus GX is set to start production October 2, 2023 - both at Tahara.

View attachment 401504

Regarding TX/Grand Highlander, we can see the program codes are very similar and the current start dates are close as well - both at Princeton. However, with one being a Lexus line and the other being Toyota, they have separate line items.

View attachment 401505

When they dual name a product, is it only when it is identical and not close, close cousins like the TX/Grand Highlander or GX/Prado?

 

[gomiami]

Back to the "this is not speculation" category, my son-in-law is a Toyota master technician, recently their general manager told them about the new Land Cruiser coming out. That it would be smaller that the existing Land Cruiser 300 but priced above the 4Runner.

Why is this important news? For over a year I've been asking him if he has heard anything about the new 6th gen 4Runner, but not a word. So the fact that he has now heard something about the new Land Cruiser first, may possibly, infer that it is coming out before the 6th gen 4Runner, which is inline with other rumors posted here.

Second, it is another corroborating piece of evidence that the new US Land Cruiser is real and may in-fact be coming to US dealers within the next year or so.

It is good news that the Land Cruiser is re-entering the US market. I ask this because I don't know. What was Toyota's reasoning for pulling the LC in the first place just to re-introduce it three years later...other than to help their MPG numbers while it was being redesigned?

 

[balong48]

When they dual name a product, is it only when it is identical and not close, close cousins like the TX/Grand Highlander or GX/Prado?

As far as I know, they were pretty much identical other than the driving side. I saw a couple of Hilux Surfs while in Saint Lucia this past June and went "Oh look a 4Runner!" when in reality it was a Hilux Surf. I don't think the Hilux Surf made it past the 4th Gen 4Runner though, so it's strange that even the existing 5th Gen production line says Hilux Surf/4Runner.

 

[mscot]

It is good news that the Land Cruiser is re-entering the US market. I ask this because I don't know. What was Toyota's reasoning for pulling the LC in the first place just to re-introduce it three years later...other than to help their MPG numbers while it was being redesigned?

Low sales volume, primarily. It carried unrealistic pricing for a vehicle that doesn't carry status here in the states - sure, WE know, but most people do not. So they just put all their eggs in the Lexus LX, which is the same thing and was only getting a few grand more than the LC was when they were both here.

No one in the US "needs" a Land Cruiser, much less one that costs over $80k.

 

[gomiami]

Low sales volume, primarily. It carried unrealistic pricing for a vehicle that doesn't carry status here in the states - sure, WE know, but most people do not. So they just put all their eggs in the Lexus LX, which is the same thing and was only getting a few grand more than the LC was when they were both here.

No one in the US "needs" a Land Cruiser, much less one that costs over $80k.

OK, that makes sense. The pricing of the Land Cruiser was probably correct, although not for the US market. A vehicle designed to last 250K is ridiculous from an engineering standpoint (in a good way.)

Funny thing, I didn't see the LX and the LC competing for the same customer. I couldn't afford either one but I would have bought an LC had I the money. I really don't know who would buy an LX for 90-100K or any other price. The LX is the vehicle they should have axed (IMHO.)

 

[mscot]

OK, that makes sense. The pricing of the Land Cruiser was probably correct, although not for the US market. A vehicle designed to last 250K is ridiculous from an engineering standpoint (in a good way.)

Funny thing, I didn't see the LX and the LC competing for the same customer. I couldn't afford either one but I would have bought an LC had I the money. I really don't know who would buy an LX for 90-100K or any other price. The LX is the vehicle they should have axed (IMHO.)

I agree and most dealers probably do too. They could have de-luxed the LC to offer a 70k version and given a range of options ending at 100k.
From what I have heard a lot of Lexus dealers were asking for a Lexus version of the Sequoia more than an LX. Don't recall where I heard that from.
All that said, I think Toyota just sees the 4Runner as a suitable alternative for an LC in the states. It can easily go 200k+ if taken care of, and the roads in the US are never far from gas/service and are relatively well maintained so an LC isn't really necessary.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

Kirk Kreifels has joined the conversation with his rendering, video and standard powertrain spreadsheet analysis.

It's a GOOD day for Toyota Land Cruiser fans in America... - YouTube

 

[mscot]

Kirk Kreifels has joined the conversation with his rendering, video and standard powertrain spreadsheet analysis.

It's a GOOD day for Toyota Land Cruiser fans in America... - YouTube

He basically summarized our discussion. LOL

 

[KimchiJae]

Back to the "this is not speculation" category, my son-in-law is a Toyota master technician, recently their general manager told them about the new Land Cruiser coming out. That it would be smaller that the existing Land Cruiser 300 but priced above the 4Runner.

Why is this important news? For over a year I've been asking him if he has heard anything about the new 6th gen 4Runner, but not a word. So the fact that he has now heard something about the new Land Cruiser first, may possibly, infer that it is coming out before the 6th gen 4Runner, which is inline with other rumors posted here.

Second, it is another corroborating piece of evidence that the new US Land Cruiser is real and may in-fact be coming to US dealers within the next year or so.

I'm weary of news from a GM. I know technically they have a relationship with Toyota but I've grown to become distrusting of dealership employees -- even if they are GM status.

That being said... one random Redditor said dealers got a preview of the Land Cruiser back in September, re-iterating it would be a smaller bronco/wrangler fighter. Emphasis on random redditor.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

He basically summarized our discussion. LOL

It would be cool if his rendering was even half correct.