Best speculation of a 2023 6th generation I have seen

[TexasFunRunner]

Dave Z, under the mirror looks like it maybe a shadow from the mirror itself.

My first thought was it was a hybrid plug, but that would be the wrong place on a Toyota, at least if you compare it to a Rav4.

 

[mscot]

looks too small for a plug. they're usually about the same size as a gas door.

 

[Flybynight]

Blue 5th gen appears to be a power train mule if that's what they're doing there, probably has the 2.4T or 2.4T w/ hybrid hacked into it for durability testing. Also to note above posts, most of these mandatory changes have been mandated - Toyota (and everyone else) is just doing their best to adapt.

The TT tundra V6 has been million mile tested (left at WOT on dyno 24/7) but you need them out in the field by the tens of thousands to really find the kinks, as they are. There will be fixes, then a "refresh" in 3-4 years and it'll be solid. Panel gaps have been a launch issue for everyone, most of that is robot automation. Or maybe the robot is prefect but the floor isn't 100% level at the factory?

Funny story about gaps, when Bob Lutz was very high up at Chrysler in the 80's, K-car era, he was at an auto show at BMW or VW booth and commented on how nice their panel gaps were. The German CEO pulled him aside and said the key to getting perfect gaps was to just fire people until it was right. Bob said that wouldnt fly over here but thanks for the tip lol

 

[TexasFunRunner]

The TT tundra V6 has been million mile tested (left at WOT on dyno 24/7)

So it can now be confirmed that WOT does not find Turbocharger issues like the early Tundra's had.

Hopefully the 6th gen 4Runner gets a better test methodology.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Blue 5th gen appears to be a power train mule if that's what they're doing there, probably has the 2.4T or 2.4T w/ hybrid hacked into it for durability testing. Also to note above posts, most of these mandatory changes have been mandated - Toyota (and everyone else) is just doing their best to adapt.

The TT tundra V6 has been million mile tested (left at WOT on dyno 24/7) but you need them out in the field by the tens of thousands to really find the kinks, as they are. There will be fixes, then a "refresh" in 3-4 years and it'll be solid. Panel gaps have been a launch issue for everyone, most of that is robot automation. Or maybe the robot is prefect but the floor isn't 100% level at the factory?

Funny story about gaps, when Bob Lutz was very high up at Chrysler in the 80's, K-car era, he was at an auto show at BMW or VW booth and commented on how nice their panel gaps were. The German CEO pulled him aside and said the key to getting perfect gaps was to just fire people until it was right. Bob said that wouldnt fly over here but thanks for the tip lol

I agree, likely a powertrain mule and easiest things for an engineering team to slap together for proof of concept. Either that or it's being used for comparison testing of some kind.

As for panel gaps... eh, it's like orange peel in paint; everyone has varying degrees of it in all their models. Between automation and the sheer volume of vehicles produced there is been a sort of "status quo" in regards to things like "acceptable amounts of orange peel" and "panel gap variance." I always laugh at the people who nit pick about the orange peel on new cars unless it's super bad; you can see the brand new Mercedes when they come off the truck have the same looking paint as most of the Toyotas in terms of that application.

But the issue isn't panel gaps, or orange peel (at least not to me), or even turbocharge wastegate actuator linkages; that's all teething issues. It's the things like the rear window belt molding being 3-6mm too short and not tucked into the window run and exterior window weather stripping like every other Toyota (seriously, I walked our lot for a TAS case and checked 5 other new Tundras with varying gaps and then checked all our service customer vehicles including older Tundras and not one had this issue). What's worse is that when you call TAS, the FTS, and/or anyone else above you who is supposed to have more information, no one seems to know if that is how it's supposed to be or if it's a supplier issue and if a new part will fix it. No one knew whether or not the 3rd Gen Tundras were supposed to have an auto-darkening passenger side exterior mirror; something customers had been complaining about for a bit; the manual didn't really specify one way or the other, the FSM was vague, TAS had no clue, every Tundra we checked all had the same "issue;" but no one outside of the engineers who actually designed the vehicle (who failed to mention it to anyone else...) knew if that was an actual problem or a new "feature." Weeks later, it turns out that's just how they come... despite just about every Toyota/Lexus that I can think of before then coming with the rearview mirror and both exterior mirrors having auto-darkening when equipped with that option... I guess for the Tundras (and presumably) the Sequoias they just have the driver's mirror and rearview mirror only. That's the stuff that genuinely disappoints me and to a degree worries me, Toyota is so all over the place they aren't even sure what the truck they designed and built is supposed to have and if it's an issue or a feature more than half the time.

Those go beyond simple teething issues, those are systemic and structural issues that shouldn't exist in a company as large and established as Toyota. It just seems to get worse and worse every year and the Tundra is probably the most glaring example to date, which has bothered a lot of people who had/have quite a bit of faith and trust in a company like Toyota.

 

[Carmaker1]

I'll be back guys, but there's a very high chance that you're looking at the 2025 model year per a reliable source, who broke the 2024 MY delay in the first place last year.

930B is running later than hoped in terms of development. It's likely not a 2024 model now as recent of weeks, but I feel bad enough passing this on without his consent.

Two, I think you've already seen the 3rd generation GX since December. Not the 4Runner, but GX. Why? Many were under the impression the TX is the model in silhouette, that's really the next GX. Grand Highlander and TX have to be slightly bigger than what you see in the GX, in order to surpass the Highlander in length.

That vehicle is not any longer than a Highlander, so it must be the GX.

All of the design cues match the few descriptions of implying similarities to the 70-Series, especially the D-Pillar. It looks like an evolution of the current model, but not as miraculous as I had heard from someone at the 2/10/21 showcase. I get so tired of internal sources overhyping unseen product, especially at Lexus. If that is really the TX, I will eat my words, but I believe it's GX.

Update:

Yes, you have been already shown the next generation GX in rudimentary form. Compare the RX teaser to the revealed 2023 RX vehicle and you have an idea of how it's not shown 100%, but 95+% close. Please PM me instead, for more info on TNGA-F developments.

 

[SAND619]

I'll be back guys, but there's a very high chance that you're looking at the 2025 model year per a reliable source, who broke the 2024 MY delay in the first place last year.

930B is running later than hoped in terms of development. It's likely not a 2024 model now as recent of weeks, but I feel bad enough passing this on without his consent.

Two, I think you've already seen the 3rd generation GX since December. Not the 4Runner, but GX. Why? Many were under the impression the TX is the model in silhouette, that's really the next GX. Grand Highlander and TX have to be slightly bigger than what you see in the GX, in order to surpass the Highlander in length.

That vehicle is not any longer than a Highlander, so it must be the GX.

All of the design cues match the few descriptions of implying similarities to the 70-Series, especially the D-Pillar. It looks like an evolution of the current model, but not as miraculous as I had heard from someone at the 2/10/21 showcase. I get so tired of internal sources overhyping unseen product, especially at Lexus. If that is really the TX, I will eat my words, but I believe it's GX.

I think you're right and so far, the NX and RX have been pretty spot on.

 

[Dave Z]

2025... well, that is disappointing. For some reason I'm not surprised. Carmaker, will we see the GX as a 24 or 25 model?

 

[Todd308]

At the pace things are going it might be longer, who knows how long this madness is going to go on and how long delays will keep happening. On the plus side maybe they'll actually add some much needed tech updates on the current 4-runner over the next 3 model years and keep the super reliable engine/drivetrain.

 

[Dave Z]

At the pace things are going it might be longer, who knows how long this madness is going to go on and how long delays will keep happening. On the plus side maybe they'll actually add some much needed tech updates on the current 4-runner over the next 3 model years and keep the super reliable engine/drivetrain.

This. So much this.

 

[MNT_GOAT]

At the pace things are going it might be longer, who knows how long this madness is going to go on and how long delays will keep happening. On the plus side maybe they'll actually add some much needed tech updates on the current 4-runner over the next 3 model years and keep the super reliable engine/drivetrain.

What tech is there even left to add? The gauge cluster was updated in 2020 and is still modern enough for a truck. I really like the current cluster and much prefer it to some larger screen with useless graphics. BSM, radar cruise, lane departure, front and rear parking sensors, keyless entry and push button start, LED lights, great safety ratings with lots of airbags are all there. The only thing that’s missing for me is a heated steering wheel and memory driver’s seat, but those are nothing new. I’d expect the next two+ models years of what’s left of the fifth generation to be essentially a MY’22 with a newer build date and a slight price increase to keep up with inflation.

 

[Todd308]

Off the top of my head, heated steering wheel, HUD, memory seats, MUCH better resolution cameras, camera rear view mirror, panoroof.

I think it just comes down to a person's priorities, their use case, and where they see value. To me charging $55k for a 4-runner that has less tech in it than a $40k Rav4 makes a statement. For example I used to make fun of heated steering wheels before I had one for a winter. That said I could care less about parking sensors and radar cruise, trade them both for a HUD and heated steering wheel in a heartbeat.

If my $58k 1/2 ton pickup can find a way to get 420hp/460ft/lbs of torque (at nearly the same MPG), HUD, tow 9000 lbs, heated steering wheel, heated/ventilated memory seats, camera rear view mirror, nice resolution 360 cameras, memory seats at almost the same price, I don't see much value in the current 4-runner at it's price. I can respect minimalist for reliability sake, but not combined with a premium price tag.

Unfortunately we're more likely to see more and more cars neutered when it comes to off-road and features. The 2023 Jeep lineup is a perfect example, they neutered the Grand Cherokee line unless you buy the hybrid trims now. The only trailhawk version is now the 4xe, and you can't get the off-road package on any Grand Cherokee now unless it's a 4xe. The only non-hybrid Grand Cherokee that has the eLSD now is the Summit Reserve and it comes with 21" rims.

I love the looks and reliability of the Toyota, but when you compare the $55k TRD Pro to something like the Grand Cherokee Trailhawk for another $5k the Trailhawk gives you the same.....I'll even say significantly more off-road prowess in stock form (11.3" ground clearance -vs- 9.6", 35 -vs- 33 approach angle, 25 vs 20 deg breakover, 30 deg vs 26 deg departure angle, similar if not better RTI (depending whose #'s you use)). Plus you have 6200lbs vs 5000lbs of towing, or 7200lbs if you get the v8 and all the creature comforts inside. Now of course you can't mod up a Grand Cherokee like you can a 4-runner, but for $60k I'd wager it will embarrass stock TRD Pro's off road. The only thing I can think of that's not in the Trailhawk is you can't get a HUD in it. Interestingly they also have basically the same tire size, except the 4-runner is on 17" rims and the Trailhawk is 18". On road and comfort/convenience/tech wise it's not even a contest, the Trailhawk is vastly superior. The only place the 4-runner does better is of course rugged looks, we can all agree it's probably more reliable, mod capability you can turn a 4-runner into a monster, and it's got about 10% more cargo room. The trailhawk will even give you stuff most of us don't care or need.......night vision, memory steering column, it also has more HP and Torque even with the v6 and better fuel economy.

For me the real problem with the 4-runner is I'm not going to turn it into a modded monster, if I was going to do that I'd probably just mod out a jeep. So I'm not going to do much to it beyond stock, and it's going to be a daily driver, so if it's a worse vehicle on road, less comfortable, doesn't drive as nice, has less tech options, less convenience. The only thing that would get me to go that way is if it's super reliable (check!) and it had a significant price break compared to vehicles with all those things, and it just doesn't. Even if you say went to the TRD Off Road Premium, and wanted KDSS to improve the on-road manners you are looking at $50k. Now if that was closer to $45k then you've got a pretty good price gap to something like the Trailhawk.

The other advantage of course is resale, in 5 years the 4-runner is going to hold it's value MUCH better, Jeeps are one of the worst at holding value. However I've always said if you buy a vehicle for it's resale, you probably bought the wrong vehicle, but I've been driving for 34 years and have only owned 4 vehicles, so resale for flipping purposes isn't a factor.

 

[SAND619]

What tech is there even left to add? The gauge cluster was updated in 2020 and is still modern enough for a truck. I really like the current cluster and much prefer it to some larger screen with useless graphics. BSM, radar cruise, lane departure, front and rear parking sensors, keyless entry and push button start, LED lights, great safety ratings with lots of airbags are all there. The only thing that’s missing for me is a heated steering wheel and memory driver’s seat, but those are nothing new. I’d expect the next two+ models years of what’s left of the fifth generation to be essentially a MY’22 with a newer build date and a slight price increase to keep up with inflation.

There's actually a lot they could add... All-speed radar cruise control, auto parking brake, lane keep assist w/ lane centering, wireless Apple CarPlay, wireless phone charging, heads up display, tailgate kick sensor, rearview mirror camera, towing tech, adaptable suspension settings... all of which is pretty much expected of a 40-50k SUV in 2022

 

[Blackwatch]

I have the Canadian off-road so it has the camera on the front and climate control etc. the only thing I would want is a heated steering wheel and a better Bluetooth phone system. Lame keep assist requires electric steering. I like the old hydraulic system. It would be nice to have more power and an 8 or 10 speed transmission but I bought this to last forever so I’m happy with everything except the 2 above things and when I ship it south in 7 years I won’t care about the heated steering wheel.
Jeep is a different vehicle than a Toyota. I don’t want to get to know the service department that well. I think we are about to see the end of the super reliable 4Runner in North America. The 4.0 will live on in central and South America.

 

[Tonka23]

I love the looks and reliability of the Toyota, but when you compare the $55k TRD Pro to something like the Grand Cherokee Trailhawk for another $5k the Trailhawk gives you the same.....I'll even say significantly more off-road prowess in stock form (11.3" ground clearance -vs- 9.6", 35 -vs- 33 approach angle, 25 vs 20 deg breakover, 30 deg vs 26 deg departure angle, similar if not better RTI (depending whose #'s you use)). Plus you have 6200lbs vs 5000lbs of towing, or 7200lbs if you get the v8 and all the creature comforts inside.

I think you just answered your own question...most people who want a 4runner give up the higher specs you just mentioned on the jeep for usually much more trouble free miles. I'd like to think the cost to mod a 4runner to have those things the jeep has is the better trade off vs. any reliability concerns the jeep will have. Sure I wish toyota offered some of these newer cool tech features but never at the expense of breaking down.

 

[LimeLED]

There's actually a lot they could add... All-speed radar cruise control, auto parking brake, lane keep assist w/ lane centering, wireless Apple CarPlay, wireless phone charging, heads up display, tailgate kick sensor, rearview mirror camera, towing tech, adaptable suspension settings... all of which is pretty much expected of a 40-50k SUV in 2022

I think the issue is you're comparing a proper SUV to crossovers. The 4Runner, Wrangler, and Bronco are the only midsize, body-on-frame SUVs on the market. Everything else are unibody crossovers. It's less expensive in components and manufacturing to produce FWD/AWD crossovers than a rugged, body-on-frame, traditional 4WD SUVs with beefier driveline components, transfer case, locking diff, etc.

If a bunch of features is top priority, a 4Runner probably isn't the right vehicle. A Highlander or Lexus RX might be a better fit.

 

[Todd308]

I think you just answered your own question...most people who want a 4runner give up the higher specs you just mentioned on the jeep for usually much more trouble free miles. I'd like to think the cost to mod a 4runner to have those things the jeep has is the better trade off vs. any reliability concerns the jeep will have. Sure I wish toyota offered some of these newer cool tech features but never at the expense of breaking down.

That's fair, but to me adding tech doesn't equal breakdowns......and I'll qualify that statement. If the HUD, heated steering wheel, ventilated seats, wireless carplay, panoroof, etc. stop working, none of those are going to strand me on the side of the road, none of them are going to stop an off or on road adventure. They are at most an annoyance and some time at a dealer down the road. Toyota already puts some of those things in the Limited, so clearly they can do it without compromising their desire for reliability.

Maybe while I love seeing them on the road, they will just never be for me. I love the concept that mechanically it's simple and reliable, but to me that's not mutually exclusive to adding tech/comfort features, because even if those things are more likely to "fail" they will never leave you stuck on the road. On the flip side my logical brain won't pay basically the same price for an underpowered vehicle with vastly outdated features (horrible cameras) or a lack of features all together compared to other vehicles at similar price points. I respect low tech and old tech in the pursuit of reliability, but only if the price tag reflects how behind the curve it is compared to it's peers.

I suppose it's like being a Jeep Wrangler owner, you accept the fact that the vehicle you drive is probably the worst on-road daily driver option you can buy because it's the most capable off-road rig you can buy. However, even the Wrangler and Bronco have figured this out, they both include all sorts of tech/features into their vehicles at higher trims.

Also to be clear I'd happily pay more for a 4-runner that had those things, put a more powerful engine in it, add heated steering wheel, HUD, ventilated seats, high resolution 360 cameras, panoroof, memory seats, etc. etc. and jack the price up to $65k, that's fine, but at least give people the option.

 

[Todd308]

I think the issue is you're comparing a proper SUV to crossovers. The 4Runner, Wrangler, and Bronco are the only midsize, body-on-frame SUVs on the market. Everything else are unibody crossovers. It's less expensive in components and manufacturing to produce FWD/AWD crossovers than a rugged, body-on-frame, traditional 4WD SUVs with beefier driveline components, transfer case, locking diff, etc.

If a bunch of features is top priority, a 4Runner probably isn't the right vehicle. A Highlander or Lexus RX might be a better fit.

Except that the Bronco and Wrangler also offer those features, they've clearly figured out that customer not only want off-road performance but they also want some tech and creature comforts especially when for most of us it ends up being our daily driver.

 

[Carmaker1]

It's been a busy few, but I will log back in after some errands and a workout session with my trainer.

First off, I can see that a fellow (former?) forum member who also admins on a Lexus forum is deriding me in my absence, which is unfortunate, but at the end of the day must remember I can only go off of insight provided to me and not always firsthand knowledge.

I might have left their forum for professional reasons to keep the peace and not get into brand vs brand wars, but it's not like I harbor any ill will to be honest. I respect what they are doing for Lexus and happy their forum's relationship with Lexus has grown 1000 fold. I don't want to be tied down to any forum for my own reasons and keep it floating.

MY claim that this is the 2024 GX, is based on a source pointing it out to me as a body on frame vehicle and 100% NOT the 2024 TX. That source is very knowledgeable at Toyota and highlighted some stuff about MANY models, including the new Crown which proves his credibility strongly.

I could post my proof of this claim here per the conversations, but I do not want to alienate a very reliable insider. Like Automotive Press does, by being too public and pushing away other insiders. Deriding me for trusting what I was told, is just very unfortunate.

There's so much I have learned regarding Toyota's USA product line through 2030, but not publicized one bit. My head spins from it to be honest.

It's become uncomfortable to say anything on here anymore, because it's a risk. I have a Job 1 date for the next GX apparently too, which is not 2023 MY like many media clowns want to claim lately. It is definitely a 2024 model and should be out as I mentioned last year, in December 2023.

And for numero uno? You are about 26 months out. Sorry.

 

[RichinRidgewood]

It's been a busy few, but I will log back in after some errands and a workout session with my trainer.

First off, I can see that a fellow (former?) forum member who also admins on a Lexus forum is deriding me in my absence, which is unfortunate, but at the end of the day must remember I can only go off of insight provided to me and not always firsthand knowledge.

I might have left their forum for professional reasons to keep the peace and not get into brand vs brand wars, but it's not like I harbor any ill will to be honest. I respect what they are doing for Lexus and happy their forum's relationship with Lexus has grown 1000 fold. I don't want to be tied down to any forum for my own reasons and keep it floating.

MY claim that this is the 2024 GX, is based on a source pointing it out to me as a body on frame vehicle and 100% NOT the 2024 TX. That source is very knowledgeable at Toyota and highlighted some stuff about MANY models, including the new Crown which proves his credibility strongly.

I could post my proof of this claim here per the conversations, but I do not want to alienate a very reliable insider. Like Automotive Press does, by being too public and pushing away other insiders. Deriding me for trusting what I was told, is just very unfortunate.

There's so much I have learned regarding Toyota's USA product line through 2030, but not publicized one bit. My head spins from it to be honest.

It's become uncomfortable to say anything on here anymore, because it's a risk. I have a Job 1 date for the next GX apparently too, which is not 2023 MY like many media clowns want to claim lately. It is definitely a 2024 model and should be out as I mentioned last year, in December 2023.

And for numero uno? You are about 26 months out. Sorry.

26 months lol but thats good for Toyota. Why change the 4Runner when they sell everyone they make now.

CarMaker: “Bloomfield Hills, MI” LOL