Black798's 98 limited build thread

[AssBurns]

[MENTION=121903]Black798[/MENTION] Just some words of advice from someone that’s done it. I’m running 2” shocks with stock wheels and 1.25” spacers and my tires touch the shock by a hair at full flex. Fitting 2.5” shocks will be very tough without more wheel spacing. If you want to add wheel spacing to the rear that’s fine, but if you try to match the front to the rear, you’ll have huge scrub radius and wear parts out quicker.
Also for the shock length. Those King’s that you mentioned only have 8.35” of travel, which is fine for inboard. When you outboard, your shock will be almost linear with your wheel travel. I’m running just under 12” shocks with just over 12” vertical travel with only a small forward angle on the shocks. Having only a 8.35” travel shock won’t even get you close to the numbers you are already getting with an inboard shock. Especially in terms of flex travel. If you are dead set on having a 2.5” shock and gaining flex travel, try doing a custom inboard mount to gain more travel. I wouldn’t waste any time going outboard unless I had a minimum of a 10” travel shock, or else you’ll not see any real benefits.
The issue with inboard as you may already know is that the shock dampening will have a curve instead of being linear. The dampening loss curve will get worse the more you compress the shocks. That’s another big reason people switch to outboard shocks, so that the shock is more predictable and linear throughout its travel. Check out this chart I found a while back that shows how shock angle effects dampening.

I hope this helps. I had to figure a lot of this stuff through trial and error and lots of reading.

 

[Black798]

[MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] thanks for the advice on the shocks. I havent really put much research into it other than the idea that I want to go outboard for better dampening because as the rear compresses I can really feel how towards the end of the shock compression the dampening is completely gone. Which makes sense when you look at the angle the shock goes to because of the mount, it just get pushed out of the way by the axle rather than controlling it. My hope is that by going outboard it will make the ride more predictable and also decrease the body roll some.

Im not set on 2.5 shocks at all, I would be totally fine with 2.0 shocks. The main things I want is to maintain the same travel I have now and have an external resi with compression adjuster to adjust for the weight in the back at any given time.

I think in the next week or so when I get some time, Im going to take the springs out and cycle the rear suspension and try and get some real measurements so I have a better starting point.

[MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] do you think the 35s that you have rub because they balloon out being on a relatively narrow stock rim? Im only running stock size tires and only plan on going to 33s if that, so they dont balloon out very much, do you think that would help with not having to run spacers? I would like to avoid that if possible because of the scrub radius as you mentioned.

EDIT: Just looked at kings website and found some 2.0 smooth body 10 inch stroke shock with resi and adjuster. Also found them slightly cheaper than the 2.5 ones.

 

[AssBurns]

[MENTION=121903]Black798[/MENTION] I think most of us would be fine with 2.0" shocks with a remote resi. I run mine pretty hard and still haven't had my shocks so hot that I couldn't touch them. You should be able to fit 10" shocks pretty easy compared to 12". That extra 2" really makes packaging difficult even with 33's. You are still going to need more spacing than just stock wheels with no spacers. There really isn't much room to fit shocks, especially if you are looking to keep as much up travel as possible, which I highly recommend. As for the 35's on stock width wheels, I think it actually keeps the total width even narrower than if i had, say an 8" wheel.

Pulling the coils an cycling the suspension will really help give you a better idea of how much room you have to work with and packaging ideas. Having the shock mounts angle as far forward as possible will give you the most room and shouldn't effect dampening too much. Let me know if you have any questions or just want to bounce ideas around.

 

[Black798]

[MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] I think part of the reason my current shocks get so hot is theyre a steel bodied cellular shock. They work great for the price I got them but im quickly finding the limit of them.

I dont know if it will help but I have my bumpstops extended down 2 inches I couldn't remember if you had done the same or not. I will most likely keep the bumpstops at their existing length sense I dont have issues with bottoming and dont really want to let the body move any closer to the ground on compression. Last time when I had the truck flexed out I took a rough measurement between the tire and frame and there was 2.5 inches there so hopefully they will fit without spacers.

What did you use for designing and cutting your shock mounts out?

 

[AssBurns]

[MENTION=121903]Black798[/MENTION] Having a longer shock in relation to wheel travel, plus an external reservoir will make a huge difference in cooling. The longer shock won't be worked as hard as the shorter shock you have now.

Having 2" bump extensions will help quite a bit for packaging, still might be a tight fit. You could always try to run a 12" shock for major droop travel. I think [MENTION=57546]4-Ripcord[/MENTION] did a 2" body 10" shock mounted outboard with a stud mount like you are thinking about doing. You might want to get his opinion as well with that setup. I kept my stock bump location for maximum up travel. That made packaging a 12" shock pretty difficult. Hence why I notched the frame.

For designing things, I always map things out in my head and use cardboard for mock-up if needed. Eventually I'd like to learn to use CAD programs but haven't taken the time to learn it yet. For cutting its usually an angle grinder or metal cutting circular saw for long straight cuts.

 

[Black798]

[MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION], after looking at king's options for 10 inch shocks I think I will be going with a through bolt type mount on the upper. I looked at [MENTION=57546]4-Ripcord[/MENTION]s king setup he just put in and I will be doing something similar. My hope is to have the axle mounts slightly higher than his and possibly be able to incorporate the stock lower mount some so I can keep the axle modifications to a minimum. I will take a look at the lower mounting options tonight when I get home.

 

[Dezert4Runner]

[MENTION=121903]Black798[/MENTION] Having a longer shock in relation to wheel travel, plus an external reservoir will make a huge difference in cooling. The longer shock won't be worked as hard as the shorter shock you have now.

Having 2" bump extensions will help quite a bit for packaging, still might be a tight fit. You could always try to run a 12" shock for major droop travel. I think [MENTION=57546]4-Ripcord[/MENTION] did a 2" body 10" shock mounted outboard with a stud mount like you are thinking about doing. You might want to get his opinion as well with that setup. I kept my stock bump location for maximum up travel. That made packaging a 12" shock pretty difficult. Hence why I notched the frame.

For designing things, I always map things out in my head and use cardboard for mock-up if needed. Eventually I'd like to learn to use CAD programs but haven't taken the time to learn it yet. For cutting its usually an angle grinder or metal cutting circular saw for long straight cuts.

[MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION], after looking at king's options for 10 inch shocks I think I will be going with a through bolt type mount on the upper. I looked at [MENTION=57546]4-Ripcord[/MENTION]s king setup he just put in and I will be doing something similar. My hope is to have the axle mounts slightly higher than his and possibly be able to incorporate the stock lower mount some so I can keep the axle modifications to a minimum. I will take a look at the lower mounting options tonight when I get home.

I agree with all of the above. If you're going to run a 10"+ travel shock why would you pidgeon hole yourself with a stud mount upper? Most aftermarket shocks that aren't vehicle specific use eye mounts anyways.

 

[Black798]

Well it has been an interesting a frustrating few weeks with this build. It seems very time I get ready to take the next step with it something comes up that needs more attention. First up was the tire... After my wheeler lake trip one of the tire tires had a cut in the sidewall that is about 3 inches long and 1/4 inch deep at its deepest. looking into the cut you can see one of the steel belts had just barely been scratched by whatever cut it. I drove on the tire for a few months but looking at it just made me uneasy so I decided to get a new one. I then threw the damaged tire on the spare rim since it had 10/32nds of tread and would work in a pinch even though it most likely will never touch the ground.

Here's the cut..
IMAG0040 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr

The next two issues stemmed from a recent trip I took. I had been wanting to do the north meadow creek trail in the tobacco roots for a while, so last weekend my buddy and I went to go run it and check out some other trails in the process. When we got to the trail head there was a but of snow down but not much. As I was airing down a guy with is wife in a jeep rolled up, asked what we were doing, said the trail got pretty rough and we most likely wouldn't make it in the runner and then proceeded to take off up the trail.

We took off up the trail after the jeep and the snow quickly became almost 6 inches deep and was super slippery so I hoped out and dropped down to 15 psi to get some more traction. It wasn't long before we found the jeep guy struggling to clear one of the obstacles before the eventually got stuck and had to have me winch them out. They turned around and left and we drove right through where they got stuck, I guess it was just a Jeep thing?

As we neared the end of the trail the snow was getting deeper and I was having to really work to make progress. Then all of a sudden I lost all power and the truck started coughing and sputtering and then the CEL started flashing at me before it went solid. Pulled the codes with the scangauge and I had a misfire on cylinder 1, I didnt want to deal with trouble shooting it at the time and since I didnt have spare parts it wouldn't have made sense. We ended up winching through the last hill to get to the top before turning around and limping home.

Turns out the injector on cylinder 1 had completely failed, should read 14-18 ohms but it metered at 55 thousand. So I replaced that and also threw in a 20 inch dynomax super turbo muffler because the stock one was starting to get some holes in it.

Enough venting and onto the pictures, mostly scenery from in the rig, I was too lazy to get out on the trail.
IMG_5781 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr
IMG_5802 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr
IMG_5783 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr
IMG_5792 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr
IMG_5789 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr
IMG_5795 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr


I also finished the first model of the rear shock mounts. Ill be notching the frame by 3/4 of an inch to avoid running wheel spacers with the stock rims. The mounts will then be welded into the frame to hang the shocks
Shock Mount by Phoenix Black, on Flickr

 

[jmferg]

How are you liking the 891s?

This week I went from 1.5" spacers to 890s and was a little disappointed.


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[Black798]

How are you liking the 891s?
This week I went from 1.5" spacers to 890s and was a little disappointed.
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I love them. They ride much better than the 906s I had before which I thought were a bit stiff. They handle weight great but still ride good unloaded and flex very well.

My one complaint is I am having some passenger side lean, yes passenger side. I checked without the spare tire on and no change and I had the springs replaced under warranty and still saw no change so Im not really sure whats going on there. But I ended up with two brand new pairs of 891 coils that are just camping in my garage in original packaging if your interested. Id part with one of them for 140 shipped.

 

[Kotrin]

Well it has been an interesting a frustrating few weeks with this build. It seems very time I get ready to take the next step with it something comes up that needs more....

I have alway's been really upset about how some people just don't offer let's do this together first, versus you could NEVER do it. This has happened to me more times than I could mention when I'm out exploring by myself. I've experienced this when I play games with my son online (FPS and etc), I use this a lot to pound the rights & wrongs of our family and the way we, us, talk/treat others. But enough of it, it always makes me triggered, sorry.

This area looks REALLY neat. Lot's of trails and such to spend a week or two from Oregon?

 

[Black798]

I have alway's been really upset about how some people just don't offer let's do this together first, versus you could NEVER do it. This has happened to me more times than I could mention when I'm out exploring by myself. I've experienced this when I play games with my son online (FPS and etc), I use this a lot to pound the rights & wrongs of our family and the way we, us, talk/treat others. But enough of it, it always makes me triggered, sorry.

This area looks REALLY neat. Lot's of trails and such to spend a week or two from Oregon?

If you planned it right you could definitely make a trip out of it. None of the trails around here are terribly difficult. Id say on a scale of 1-10 the worst I have found is probably a 5.

The trouble with Montana is that the trails we have a pretty scattered thanks to environmentalists getting them shut down and dumbass rednecks making the wheeling community look bad but I digress.

Bottom line is it would take a lot of looking at maps but if you did it right you could do a very large portion of trail going from southwest Montana over to Cody Wyoming in probably 4 days depending on travel speed. If you ever make it out this way let me know.

 

[Kotrin]

If you planned it right you could definitely make a trip out of it. None of the trails around here are terribly difficult. Id say on a scale of 1-10 the worst I have found is probably a 5.

The trouble with Montana is that the trails we have a pretty scattered thanks to environmentalists getting them shut down and dumbass rednecks making the wheeling community look bad but I digress.

Bottom line is it would take a lot of looking at maps but if you did it right you could do a very large portion of trail going from southwest Montana over to Cody Wyoming in probably 4 days depending on travel speed. If you ever make it out this way let me know.

Thanks. I was looking at forest service maps and kept seeing private/public land lines. I know I want to see Yosemite National Park which gets me closer to Montana. So much I want to do before 40..only 3 years before I lose the ability to drive.

 

[Black798]

There are quite a few public land lines but for the most part they are pretty short sections that are private land and all the good camping locations are on the forest service land. Its generally the first mile of a trail thats private

 

[Black798]

Yesterday I got out for the my first real snow wheeling trip of the season. I decided to head back down to the Boulder River area and make an attempt at finishing Independence pass. Last time I ran it I only made it about half way and ran out of time to make it all the way to the end at monument peak.

I headed out early at 6 to ensure I would have plenty of time to make it down there, do the trail, and deal with any issues that may arise. This was quite possibly the hardest part of the day being a college kid that's used to sleeping for half the day.

Sunrise on the way to the trail...
IMG_5906 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr

I reached the trail head around 8, aired down to 20 psi and headed up the trail. On the lower portion of the trail there was only a dusting of snow but I quickly began having issues with it due to the icy crust that was under it. This made the few technical areas very difficult and it wasn't long before I opted to air down to 12 psi.

Wildpeaks at 12 psi...
IMG_5942 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr

I made record time up to my previous turn around point and continued on up the trail. I was a little discouraged by this point because I had gained nearly 2,000 feet in elevation and there was still barley two inches of snow. Continuing on for another mile or so the snow started getting deeper and I was beginning to notice a lot of tress that had been freshly cleared from the trail. However it wasn't long before I was met with this lovely sight...
IMG_5927 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr

Lucky, after seeing enough of [MENTION=67615]Dirtco[/MENTION]'s posts where he had been forced to turn around due to a lack of a chainsaw, I came prepared with one and made quick work of clearing the trail. Shortly after the first tree the snow became much deeper than I was expecting, at least 2 feet in most areas. I had been following some tracks made by a rzr the previous day but thanks to the marginal difference in track width I was beginning to really have to work to keep forward progress since i was being tossed between their ruts and I was beginning to worry Id need to turn around.

I continued the final 2 miles up the relatively uneventful trail until I reached the old independence mill sight where I found the rzr parked and a set of footprints headed off in the direction the trail went. It was odd considering it didn't look like they had any trouble making it this far but around the next bend I was met with what would be the end of the trail for today. When I cleared the trees into this area the trail all but dissapeared and with no winch points nearby I didn't want to risk breaking trail downhill so I turned around and headed home.

End of the trail...
IMG_5928 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr
IMG_5930 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr
IMG_5932 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr

Overall I was really impressed with the truck being open diff in the snow but a rear locker is becoming more and more necessary. Hopefully I can order one here in a few weeks.
So now onto the pictures...

On the way up...
IMG_5922 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr
IMG_5923 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr

Some of the scenery from up top...
IMG_5934 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr
IMG_5940 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr
IMG_5931 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr

Nice shot of the crazy mountains on the way back...
IMG_5945 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr

 

[Black798]

Snow wheeling

So last Wednesday we got slammed by a three-day storm that dropped almost 2 feet of snow. It started snowing Wednesday morning and didn't stop until midday Saturday which left only one logical thing left to do, go snow wheeling. I went out with a few friends and had an absolute blast. Almost lost the 4runner off a pretty big drop but otherwise it was a good day.

I didnt get many pictures but here are the ones I got that turned out pretty good.

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/38147467516/in/album-72157688909626084/" title="IMG_6046"><img src="https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4555/38147467516_65ab081fa2_c.jpg" width="800" height="534" alt="IMG_6046"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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[Black798]

Rear Suspension Rebuild Pt 1

In the coming weeks, I will be installing a set of 10-inch travel king shocks in the rear with outboard mounts. In preparation for this, I decided to replace the 18-year-old rubber bushings in the lower control arms with a set of SPC x-axis joints. I choose these because they are similar to a Johnny Joint but have a sealed boot so hopefully, they will be low maintenance and reduce any kind of bind in the links due to the rubber bushings and they are much cheaper than the johnny joints. I also made some control arms skids while I had the bushings out.

Old bushings out...
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I polished the inside of the rod end before installing the joints...
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/38166233146/in/album-72157685385167506/" title="IMG_6044"><img src="https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4544/38166233146_cc0ab58911_c.jpg" width="800" height="534" alt="IMG_6044"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

New joints installed...
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/38166231846/in/album-72157685385167506/" title="IMG_6062"><img src="https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4527/38166231846_d7d05c6493_c.jpg" width="800" height="534" alt="IMG_6062"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Also ran a bead of silicone down the weld seams to seal the void off from the elements...
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/38221617381/in/album-72157685385167506/" title="IMG_6061"><img src="https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4490/38221617381_b44a6fe7b7_c.jpg" width="534" height="800" alt="IMG_6061"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Installed in the truck...
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/38166233266/in/album-72157685385167506/" title="IMG_6064"><img src="https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4488/38166233266_edf28336ae_c.jpg" width="800" height="534" alt="IMG_6064"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Initial impressions:
So far the joints are great with zero squeaks and the rear end seems to be more consistent and tight on the road. Time will tell how the durability is

 

[TB12GOAT]

Beautiful truck. Especially nice to see it in action in the snow. Where are you located? It was in the mid-60s today in Boston. Hopefully we see the kind of snow you have this winter... my ski pass needs some use!

 

[Black798]

Beautiful truck. Especially nice to see it in action in the snow. Where are you located? It was in the mid-60s today in Boston. Hopefully we see the kind of snow you have this winter... my ski pass needs some use!

Thanks! I'm in Bozeman Montana, so south west portion of the state. None of our ski resorts will open untill early December but it's shaping up to be a pretty good season.

 

[octanejunkie]

Thanks! I'm in Bozeman Montana, so south west portion of the state. None of our ski resorts will open untill early December but it's shaping up to be a pretty good season.

I went to Bozeman once for a week while snowboarding in Big Sky. Quiet af up there at night.

We went to a bar in Bozeman one night and walked past a car in the parking lot with a guy manually stimulating a fully naked, unconscious girl in the front seat of his car with the dome light on. Ever since then, Bozeman, MT has been referred to as the finger-banging capital of America between my friends and I. Never forget some things.

Circling back to read your building thread Lol

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