Brake Assist - Panic Stop (Tire Pressure)
- Thread starter 2nd Chance
- Start date
1engineer
Moderator
Hey, I drive mine 30K or so a year and back in 2010 I had to change my braking style too. Is it bad? No. Is is different? Yes. When I get in my wife's CRV I have to adapt for a few minutes to that braking system... and all the nannies she has on that vehicle.
KingTaco
New member
To briefly hijack this thread once again; I liked the idea of trying the 29+ like [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] , so I went out of my expected price range, and ordered a 2017 XXL Specialized Camber FS 29er yesterday. If I've learned one thing here, it's "get the right thing the first time". Comes with 2.3" tires, but I'm told the new frame will accommodate 27.5+ and even 29+. Would love to try a 29 w/3" on it. Guess I'll be pondering the possibilities of fitment, wheel combinations, and rubbing yet again
I look forward to spending more time on dirt. Just picked up a cheaper fat bike as well with a frame that everyone in the family can ride with minor adjustments. Spend most of my time on the road now, with only a little CX experience. I'm too big and too old to ride my cross bike on trails without paying a steep price.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming. :focus:
2nd Chance
New member
To briefly hijack this thread once again; I liked the idea of trying the 29+ like [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] , so I went out of my expected price range, and ordered a 2017 XXL Specialized Camber FS 29er yesterday. If I've learned one thing here, it's "get the right thing the first time". Comes with 2.3" tires, but I'm told the new frame will accommodate 27.5+ and even 29+. Would love to try a 29 w/3" on it. Guess I'll be pondering the possibilities of fitment, wheel combinations, and rubbing yet again
I look forward to spending more time on dirt. Just picked up a cheaper fat bike as well with a frame that everyone in the family can ride with minor adjustments. Spend most of my time on the road now, with only a little CX experience. I'm too big and too old to ride my cross bike on trails without paying a steep price.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming. :focus:
I literally just like Spokes bike shop and just looked at the 27.5+ Stump Jumper. That's a great looking bike and I can't wait to here your thoughts on the Cambr.
twoburgers
New member
in a turn, it can cause issues...
When the auto panic brake activates (when not desired) when driving straight, it can be very annoying.
When the auto panic brake activates when driving in a turn, it can cause the truck to fish tale a bit - essentially requiring the stabilization system to kick in. Now imagine what would happen if I were towing my 5K plus lb boat/trailer in a turn... that would suck.
I've driven my '13 for 41K miles, and had the brake assist kick in approximately 6 times - once in a turn, and only one was a true "panic" (was towing the boat and a deer was testing fate). I think the take away is that most here wish Toyota would just dial the sensitivity back a notch or two.
That being said, it is a driver aide, and we live in a nanny state, so I only see things like this getting worse, not better. I guess we should just enjoy our body on frame trucks while we can before they make a hybrid T4R.
When the auto panic brake activates (when not desired) when driving straight, it can be very annoying.
When the auto panic brake activates when driving in a turn, it can cause the truck to fish tale a bit - essentially requiring the stabilization system to kick in. Now imagine what would happen if I were towing my 5K plus lb boat/trailer in a turn... that would suck.
I've driven my '13 for 41K miles, and had the brake assist kick in approximately 6 times - once in a turn, and only one was a true "panic" (was towing the boat and a deer was testing fate). I think the take away is that most here wish Toyota would just dial the sensitivity back a notch or two.
That being said, it is a driver aide, and we live in a nanny state, so I only see things like this getting worse, not better. I guess we should just enjoy our body on frame trucks while we can before they make a hybrid T4R.
Breadman03
New member
2011 here. I'm very much a gradual braker, but I've had to tap the brakes a bit on my road trip due to the person in front of me hitting their brakes for no apparent reason and for a traffic light. The brake assist really hammered the brakes on.
I can see where brake assist could be helpful, but sometimes you just want to start applying the brakes quickly, yet not terribly firmly.
less than 5 weeks of owning my TRDP, discovered brake assist by random chance in NJ traffic the other day.
That's exactly how it felt when I had to begin stopping quickly for a traffic light that was hidden by tree branches around a corner at an unfamiliar intersection. I was doing all of about 38 in a 40, then my wife was asking me WTH happened because I about stopped 20 feet short.
I know that both times mine kicked in, I was quickly applying moderate braking power. I just didn't plan on quickly applying "a 40 ton boulder just fell from the sky directly in front of me" power.
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2nd Chance
New member
Yep, That is how I would describe it.
TK-422
New member
Today the car in front of me made a quick lane change which exposed an almost stopped car that was in front of him on the 405 freeway. I did not see it until the car suddenly changed lanes.
I had a quick reaction and pressed the brakes quickly at about 50% force. It slowed me down and all was well.
I was in my 2005 Dodge Caravan work vehicle. If I did the same in my 4Runner I would have likely been rear ended by it's auto panic mode.
I had a quick reaction and pressed the brakes quickly at about 50% force. It slowed me down and all was well.
I was in my 2005 Dodge Caravan work vehicle. If I did the same in my 4Runner I would have likely been rear ended by it's auto panic mode.
00Sebby
Senior Member
Similar situation. Today I was in the Great Smoky Mountains NP on a one-lane road. Headed down hill and around a blind curve, surface was a mixture of asphalt, gravel and moss. As I got into the curve, I came face to face with an older Tacoma coming up the hill. I quickly reacted hitting the pedal about half way and of course this wonderful assist feature kicked in and all hell breaks loose... nose dive, slide, ABS kicks in and I get the slow motion slide down the hill until it decides to stop. All I could do was look at the other driver, shaking my head and steer it into the ditch as I got closer to him and it stopped.
He pulled up and apologized, I told him it wasn't his fault but the stupid brakes on mine, explaining what happened. He asked, "What is that, a Pathfinder?" I told him 4Runner. He pointed that out to his passenger. "Look at that 4Runner, that's a great looking truck." I said, "Yep, it's a great truck. I just hate the brakes.":frusty:
He pulled up and apologized, I told him it wasn't his fault but the stupid brakes on mine, explaining what happened. He asked, "What is that, a Pathfinder?" I told him 4Runner. He pointed that out to his passenger. "Look at that 4Runner, that's a great looking truck." I said, "Yep, it's a great truck. I just hate the brakes.":frusty:
00Sebby
Senior Member
Fixed it... at least temporarily.
Like I said many times in this thread, the 4Runner brakes are abnormal compared to countless other vehicles I have driven. Yesterday in the mountains frustrated the crap out of me. As this is the only thing I don't like about the 4Runner, I started analyzing what I was seeing and experiencing.
1) I always thought it was weird how even when coasting, if I softly applied the brakes like to slow down for an upcoming traffic light, I would get a pulse, like the assist feature was just saying "Hi, I am here for you." and quickly followed by a release of the brakes to more what the input was.
2) I also thought it was weird that a quick transition from gas to a light tap on the pedal could still activate the assist WAY more than my brake input.
3) It seemed like some people very rarely activated theirs and others all the time. I know how to drive very well, drive many different vehicles, etc. and yet, this is the only vehicle this unpredictable when it came to the brakes. Others in this thread seem to feel the same way.
4) In this and other threads, the older models seem more sensitive but there also seems to be difference from vehicle to vehicle. Based on what I learned and what I know about plastic injection molding I have a theory of why different vehicles behave differently.
So, I dug into it. I studied the difference in the two primary accelerator pedal types Toyota is using. I have the Denso model, not the unintended acceleration suspected one that has the gears and "shim" issue. Maybe all 5th gen 4Runners use the Denso version, I don't know.
Anyway, I fixed mine! It may be temporary but after about 60 miles of driving and testing today, it is just like any other vehicle unless I "really panic" to engage the assist. I no longer get the "here I am" pulse/release when I press the brake pedal. The planned pedal/braking response now feels very linear and normal all the way until you engage ABS. More pedal = more stopping. More pedal faster = more stopping faster. I can transition very quickly from gas to brake and the assist no longer activates at the upper stroke of the brake pedal. Yet, if I "panic" transitioning quickly and pressing fairly hard, the turbo brakes kick in, tires squall and ABS takes over. The pedal has to be pushed about halfway before the assist kicks in... not floored but no longer high enough to be a surprise. It is still the amplified assist reaction, just not as sensitive as before. I also did the 'parking lot' test pretending someone walks out in front of me. I can stop quick enough to chirp the tires and throw stuff out of the seat but it doesn't go into the drama as before. If I "stab" it quickly in the parking lot, the assist behaves as before, just further down in the pedal stroke.
Because of the forum and possible liabilities etc. I will not go into what I did, but I can tell you that I am still completely stock with nothing rigged or modified. If you read about the accelerator pedal spring and how the friction is controlled, possible wear, etc. within the pedal assembly it may give you some ideas.
Regardless, I'm now very happy with the braking and will see how long this new behavior lasts.
Like I said many times in this thread, the 4Runner brakes are abnormal compared to countless other vehicles I have driven. Yesterday in the mountains frustrated the crap out of me. As this is the only thing I don't like about the 4Runner, I started analyzing what I was seeing and experiencing.
1) I always thought it was weird how even when coasting, if I softly applied the brakes like to slow down for an upcoming traffic light, I would get a pulse, like the assist feature was just saying "Hi, I am here for you." and quickly followed by a release of the brakes to more what the input was.
2) I also thought it was weird that a quick transition from gas to a light tap on the pedal could still activate the assist WAY more than my brake input.
3) It seemed like some people very rarely activated theirs and others all the time. I know how to drive very well, drive many different vehicles, etc. and yet, this is the only vehicle this unpredictable when it came to the brakes. Others in this thread seem to feel the same way.
4) In this and other threads, the older models seem more sensitive but there also seems to be difference from vehicle to vehicle. Based on what I learned and what I know about plastic injection molding I have a theory of why different vehicles behave differently.
So, I dug into it. I studied the difference in the two primary accelerator pedal types Toyota is using. I have the Denso model, not the unintended acceleration suspected one that has the gears and "shim" issue. Maybe all 5th gen 4Runners use the Denso version, I don't know.
Anyway, I fixed mine! It may be temporary but after about 60 miles of driving and testing today, it is just like any other vehicle unless I "really panic" to engage the assist. I no longer get the "here I am" pulse/release when I press the brake pedal. The planned pedal/braking response now feels very linear and normal all the way until you engage ABS. More pedal = more stopping. More pedal faster = more stopping faster. I can transition very quickly from gas to brake and the assist no longer activates at the upper stroke of the brake pedal. Yet, if I "panic" transitioning quickly and pressing fairly hard, the turbo brakes kick in, tires squall and ABS takes over. The pedal has to be pushed about halfway before the assist kicks in... not floored but no longer high enough to be a surprise. It is still the amplified assist reaction, just not as sensitive as before. I also did the 'parking lot' test pretending someone walks out in front of me. I can stop quick enough to chirp the tires and throw stuff out of the seat but it doesn't go into the drama as before. If I "stab" it quickly in the parking lot, the assist behaves as before, just further down in the pedal stroke.
Because of the forum and possible liabilities etc. I will not go into what I did, but I can tell you that I am still completely stock with nothing rigged or modified. If you read about the accelerator pedal spring and how the friction is controlled, possible wear, etc. within the pedal assembly it may give you some ideas.
Regardless, I'm now very happy with the braking and will see how long this new behavior lasts.
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Panic Stop brake assist and shifting from 4wd to 2wd 2005
Harshness of braking depends on the gear shift position.
The abruptness is greatest on the 4WD gear position.
Moving the shift selector slightly to the right of 4WD results in 2WD.
This position provide less harsh braking.
Harshness of braking depends on the gear shift position.
The abruptness is greatest on the 4WD gear position.
Moving the shift selector slightly to the right of 4WD results in 2WD.
This position provide less harsh braking.
Brake Assist - Dangerous
Just resurrecting an old thread... I love my 2017 LTD, except for this brake assist feature. I consider it to be unsafe, so much so that I am thinking of trading my truck in for something else. It has happened to me too many times in the short time I've had the vehicle. It happened today. I was on a major highway, in the left lane, lots of traffic around. A car changed into my lane a little too closely, so I got off the gas and hit the brakes, and not hard, either. And the brakes locked up, the truck fishtailed a little, and it made a lot of noise. Scared the crap out of me, yet again.
This is not normal braking behavior. I've been driving for enough years, including as a professional, to know when my vehicle is or isn't behaving correctly. This one isn't. My '04 LTD, which I drove for 148K miles, did. But I sure as hell don't need to be surprised by the way my truck drives. And there is no way I'm going to try and adapt my driving style to what I consider to be a defect in the vehicle.
I also worry about the cars behind me misinterpreting my truck's behavior as me driving erratically, and causing the other driver to take some kind of inappropriate action as a result, including plowing into my back end, or swerving into another lane and / or car.
I know here isn't the right venue to get Toyota to change this. But I'm surprised they haven't by now. The least they could do is throttle it back some. I'd prefer that it be eliminated totally. It's software controlled, so issuing an update isn't that hard to do.
Just resurrecting an old thread... I love my 2017 LTD, except for this brake assist feature. I consider it to be unsafe, so much so that I am thinking of trading my truck in for something else. It has happened to me too many times in the short time I've had the vehicle. It happened today. I was on a major highway, in the left lane, lots of traffic around. A car changed into my lane a little too closely, so I got off the gas and hit the brakes, and not hard, either. And the brakes locked up, the truck fishtailed a little, and it made a lot of noise. Scared the crap out of me, yet again.
This is not normal braking behavior. I've been driving for enough years, including as a professional, to know when my vehicle is or isn't behaving correctly. This one isn't. My '04 LTD, which I drove for 148K miles, did. But I sure as hell don't need to be surprised by the way my truck drives. And there is no way I'm going to try and adapt my driving style to what I consider to be a defect in the vehicle.
I also worry about the cars behind me misinterpreting my truck's behavior as me driving erratically, and causing the other driver to take some kind of inappropriate action as a result, including plowing into my back end, or swerving into another lane and / or car.
I know here isn't the right venue to get Toyota to change this. But I'm surprised they haven't by now. The least they could do is throttle it back some. I'd prefer that it be eliminated totally. It's software controlled, so issuing an update isn't that hard to do.
It’s funny that this thread was resurrected today. My wife activated this feature yesterday and it likely saved her from a bad collision. She was doing 55 or so and an idiot tried to cross the road right in front of her. She was terribly shaken but I’m thankful her 4Runner performed as designed.
Bluestone13
New member
frustrated
So ive read every thread on here, some of what my 4R does is similar to everyone else. The only difference about mine is going into a i.e. red light,(trying to feather) i feel like im 3/4 to the floor before the brakes engage. Then im slammed through the front glass.(exaggeration) I also notice brake grab in slow turns? brake grabs as im parking in garage? Ive had it with my dealer several times and always tell me everything is OK. As most replies ive been driving a LONG time and this is nothing ive ever experienced. Friends have driven and commented how shitty the brakes were.....
Any suggestions? Questions to ask dealer? Fix?
THX
So ive read every thread on here, some of what my 4R does is similar to everyone else. The only difference about mine is going into a i.e. red light,(trying to feather) i feel like im 3/4 to the floor before the brakes engage. Then im slammed through the front glass.(exaggeration) I also notice brake grab in slow turns? brake grabs as im parking in garage? Ive had it with my dealer several times and always tell me everything is OK. As most replies ive been driving a LONG time and this is nothing ive ever experienced. Friends have driven and commented how shitty the brakes were.....
Any suggestions? Questions to ask dealer? Fix?
THX
johnbt
Member
I don't know what to tell you. I've activated mine a dozen times, often at slow speeds by being too quick off the gas and onto the brake. It sounds and feels as if the rear tires are sliding like my rwd Chevys would do in the '60s and '70s.
I used to have really good reflexes, but come on this is silly, I'll be 68 later this year.
I used to have really good reflexes, but come on this is silly, I'll be 68 later this year.
nb rob
New member
I would look in to a zero point calibration, with respect to brakes activating during turns
2nd Chance
New member
Hi Rob,
Can you please elaborate on this for us that don't understand. I am truly interested.
mj
nb rob
New member
if you find your VSC is activating a bit too much during normal turns, check out this thread
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...celeration-sensor-zero-point-calibration.html
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...celeration-sensor-zero-point-calibration.html
