Brake bleeding w/ABS w/o the SST tool? ...

huh, never knew we had a special way of bleeding our brakes. i didnt have an issue after i changed rear brake lines doing my rear LT. guess i should read even more of the FSM. guess its better to find this now instead of after i need to replace calipers or other lines.
 
Got the truck on the road, pedal feel is fine and stops good.

The accumulator pump does run for 2 seconds every time I step on the brake pedal, again no idea if it did this before...I am going to do a drive to my buddy's shop after the timing belt and have help me bleed it with his fancy pants scanner, will report back.
 
I've had no problem bleeding for two brake jobs without a SST. Just turn the ignition on, and have a helper push the pedal to activate the pump.
 
I have the exact same sensation. A quick pump to prime the system and the next brake pedal press feels way more responsive.

Do I have air in the system or is that status quo?
 
Just FYI this worked perfectly for me. I had changed the fronts a little whole ago and always thought they felt soft. So I changed rear calipers today and re-bleed entire system and it si now back where it should be.

Thanks to all that contributed to this thread.

I love this site and these damn 4runners.
 
Had this problem, would not bleed till a hard pedal. Bled all calipers twice.

Fixed by driving and aggressive braking to actuate the ABS at least ten times from about 40mph.

Left overnight to "settle"

Firm pedal in the morning. Not 100% but 90%.

Will bleed the brakes again in a week. Remaining bubbles should work thru the system with some more ABS use.
 
Can the pressure method be used to bleed the fronts?

My story: I built an adapter to pressurize the master cylinder and tried using it last year without luck. The directions were for a Gen3, so I didn't have the ignition turned on and the pedal depressed for the rears. My compressor regulator lets the pressure creep up, and eventually the adapter popped off spraying brake fluid all over the truck. I vowed never to try this again.

However, now I'm considering doing this again and since I already built the pressure adapter, I'd like to use that for the fronts rather than having a helper.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/10599256@N04/sets/72157601047473166/
 
The biggest point here is that if you have any air in the Master Cylinder, ABS Solenoid Pack, or you are trying this with the key on; you'll never get the air out of the system and you'll have issues. Hence why Toyota wants you to use a scantool to actuate the system when bleeding, not to mention that the way the system is designed it will basically do almost everything for you anyways.

Sorry to dig up such an old thread but praise fortune I found it.

BlackWorksInc, I trust your opion with high level of confidence. So I'll as you do you hold this view or has the last 3 years indicated any such attemp would be foolish?
The reason I asking can be self explained by the thread I recently started to try and obtain recommendations on a state of the art consumer scanner that would include ABS and airbags.

The thread turned to a disaster:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/general-discussions/235759-scan-tool-recommendations.html

Several well meaning, I'm sure, and long term members suggesting one could not bleed front calipers without thousands in equipment and not cause massive damage to the system. That seem contrary to many other opinions. Then maternal instincts can out warning me that brakes were important and I should not work on them a home (??). I assure you I have been doing most all phases of repair since before most of you (or you parents in many cases) were born and have never a brake failure or issues related to improper proceedure.
My brakes work fine It just near time for front brakes and rotors. When I pulled the wheels to inspect and put some penetrating oil on the the fasteners I noticed the outer pad on the Rf corner WS worn futher than the other front three pads. Thus, began. The quest for the best way to go on replacement caliper and bleeding.
Thanks, Bob
 
You posted in the general forum in your link, no idea what other years are like.

For my '03, I was able to replace all my calipers and the brake actuator/abs unit without a scantool without any issues.

Sorry to dig up such an old thread but praise fortune I found it.

BlackWorksInc, I trust your opion with high level of confidence. So I'll as you do you hold this view or has the last 3 years indicated any such attemp would be foolish?
The reason I asking can be self explained by the thread I recently started to try and obtain recommendations on a state of the art consumer scanner that would include ABS and airbags.

The thread turned to a disaster:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/general-discussions/235759-scan-tool-recommendations.html

Several well meaning, I'm sure, and long term members suggesting one could not bleed front calipers without thousands in equipment and not cause massive damage to the system. That seem contrary to many other opinions. Then maternal instincts can out warning me that brakes were important and I should not work on them a home (??). I assure you I have been doing most all phases of repair since before most of you (or you parents in many cases) were born and have never a brake failure or issues related to improper proceedure.
My brakes work fine It just near time for front brakes and rotors. When I pulled the wheels to inspect and put some penetrating oil on the the fasteners I noticed the outer pad on the Rf corner WS worn futher than the other front three pads. Thus, began. The quest for the best way to go on replacement caliper and bleeding.
Thanks, Bob
 
I rebuilt my front calipers and had no problem bleeding them without an SST or vacuum or pressure bleeder. I used a helper and the instructions in the manual. I'm not sure what causes all the problems, but I was very careful not to run the master cylinder empty. Rebuilding was very cheap and not extremely hard, and didn't require painting of replacement calipers.

I did use one of these things to make it slightly easier:
Performance Tool W80625 - Brake Bleeder Kit | O'Reilly Auto Parts

BLEED BRAKE LINE
(a) Front brake line
(1) Turn the ignition switch to the ON position and wait until the pump motor has stopped.
(2) Connect the vinyl tube to the brake caliper.
(3) Depress the brake pedal several times, then loosen the bleeder plug with the pedal held down.
(4) At the point when the fluid stops coming out, tighten the bleeder plug, then release the brake pedal.
Torque: 11 Nm (112 kgf-cm, 8 ft-lbf)
(5) Repeat (3) and (4) until all the air in the fluid has been bled out.
(6) Repeat the above procedures to bleed the other brake line.
 
You posted in the general forum in your link, no idea what other years are like.

For my '03, I was able to replace all my calipers and the brake actuator/abs unit without a scantool without any issues.

Thanks,
I like that thing about earlier generations (I think 5h gens are basically the same as 4th) gives everybody a way out saving face. Maybe you should work for the State Dept? I confess, I'm bad in placing a general ob2 scan tool question in the general forum. Maybe I'm suffering from a demented brain as a result my advanced age? That could be the only excuse for posting a general question in the general section. I'd better toss my tools and get back in the rocker. Just kidding just being a bit flip I really do appreciate the input.
Anyway, care to share if you used any particular meathod?

Thanks again!
 
As long as the master cylinder/pump isn't dry you shouldn't need any special tools. If you're just replacing the brake fluid, brake lines, or calipers you should be fine with the procedure in the service manual. Basically, you can do the front brakes however you like (pump the pedal or use a vacuum bleeder or whatever), and you can do the rears by holding the pedal down and letting the pump push fluid though. Most people don't seem to have problems this way, but there are a lot of opinions about what's best.

The Toyota scan tool software is proprietary as far as I know, but maybe there are expensive ones you can buy that have similar functionality. There is a ~$30 knockoff that uses the Toyota software, and that seems to work for people, but it's not exactly easy to set up. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/gener...ta-tis-techstream-8-x-windows-7-8-64-bit.html

I did my rear brakes with that, and I found it to be unnecessary. I don't think it really does anything different than holding the pedal down, unless you're bleeding the master cylinder. It didn't even work for the front brakes.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/189108-diy-brake-fluid-change-bleed-using-scan-tool.html
 
I have no clue what you're talking about. SST not required, that's the answer. Follow the FSM steps listed above.

Thanks, ��
I like that thing about earlier generations (I think 5h gens are basically the same as 4th) gives everybody a way out saving face. Maybe you should work for the State Dept? I confess, I'm bad in placing a general ob2 scan tool question in the general forum. Maybe I'm suffering from a demented brain as a result my advanced age? That could be the only excuse for posting a general question in the general section. I'd better toss my tools and get back in the rocker. Just kidding just being a bit flip I really do appreciate the input.
Anyway, care to share if you used any particular meathod?

Thanks again!
 
If there's no air introduced to the master cylinder portion, you should be okay with the pump & hold method. The main point its that you can get air trapped in the master cylinder assembly and you wouldn't be able to "pump & hold" to get that air out of the solenoid pack because you need to actuate the valves which requires the Scantool, there is a section in the FSM detailing how to get the system to trip and bleed without the scantool as well.
 
Thanks Folks, I appreciate the clear responses. I thought some of the unsolicited doom and gloom responses I received on that other thread were BS.

And for a couple of the responses I received over on that thread mentioned above one has to wonder why such long term and seemingly respected and reliable members would offer such mis-guided advice? And offer no rationality to their thinking when questioned on its validity.

Now if I could only get some educated suggestions on calipers and an affordable contemporary scan tool. My only "scan tool" is a Davis Instruments OB2 code reader that is nearly as old (1998) as ob2 an requires a PC with a serial port.
I plan on using OEM pads and Centric (spelling?) rotors.
 
If there's no air introduced to the master cylinder portion, you should be okay with the pump & hold method. The main point its that you can get air trapped in the master cylinder assembly and you wouldn't be able to "pump & hold" to get that air out of the solenoid pack because you need to actuate the valves which requires the Scantool, there is a section in the FSM detailing how to get the system to trip and bleed without the scantool as well.

Did I just get lucky when replacing the actuator and not get air trapped? It started completely dry.
 
Thanks Folks, I appreciate the clear responses. I thought some of the unsolicited doom and gloom responses I received on that other thread were BS.

And for a couple of the responses I received over on that thread mentioned above one has to wonder why such long term and seemingly respected and reliable members would offer such mis-guided advice? And offer no rationality to their thinking when questioned on its validity.

Now if I could only get some educated suggestions on calipers and an affordable contemporary scan tool. My only "scan tool" is a Davis Instruments OB2 code reader that is nearly as old (1998) as ob2 an requires a PC with a serial port.
I plan on using OEM pads and Centric (spelling?) rotors.

The other thread doesn't seem so bad to me, though there is conflicting advice. Like I said before, there are a lot of opinions about how to do brakes, but if you find something that works for you then just do that. Some people think it's a risk to work on brakes yourself and only trust a professional to do it since the brakes are kind of critical for safety. But they are simple systems, and as long as you have some mechanical ability and check your work you'll be fine, or worst case you'll find out in your driveway if you did something wrong. And some people are very particular about the way they do things since the brake booster assembly is extremely expensive, but I can't think of hearing about anyone damaging it by bleeding the wrong way. (Some other brands might be more sensitive. I'm not sure if fourwd1 owns a newer Toyota (based on his signature), so he might be writing based on experience with other vehicles.) The worst that usually happens is a bad bleed, then you have to find some other way of bleeding to get the air out. I think one person reported the pump running frequently after bleeding, but that could be air in the system, something damaged by bleeding it, the brake booster getting to the end of its life naturally, or even as simple as increased awareness of the pump noise after paying attention to it. But don't blame me if something goes wrong; do some more research and read more old threads if you have any concerns, then decide for yourself what to do.

A friend of mine used premium Centric rotors, and they seem good. I didn't see any reason to replace my rotors, but I am using Centric Fleet Performance pads with the stock rotors. They mostly work well, but the rears often squeak during light braking. Braking performance feels good, similar to stock. There is more brake dust than stock, but the pads are holding up well. I probably have about 5,000 miles on them now.
 
The other thread doesn't seem so bad to me, though there is conflicting advice. Like I said before, there are a lot of opinions about how to do brakes, but if you find something that works for you then just do that. Some people think it's a risk to work on brakes yourself and only trust a professional to do it since the brakes are kind of critical for safety. But they are simple systems, and as long as you have some mechanical ability and check your work you'll be fine, or worst case you'll find out in your driveway if you did something wrong. And some people are very particular about the way they do things since the brake booster assembly is extremely expensive, but I can't think of hearing about anyone damaging it by bleeding the wrong way. (Some other brands might be more sensitive. I'm not sure if fourwd1 owns a newer Toyota (based on his signature), so he might be writing based on experience with other vehicles.) The worst that usually happens is a bad bleed, then you have to find some other way of bleeding to get the air out. I think one person reported the pump running frequently after bleeding, but that could be air in the system, something damaged by bleeding it, the brake booster getting to the end of its life naturally, or even as simple as increased awareness of the pump noise after paying attention to it. But don't blame me if something goes wrong; do some more research and read more old threads if you have any concerns, then decide for yourself what to do.

A friend of mine used premium Centric rotors, and they seem good. I didn't see any reason to replace my rotors, but I am using Centric Fleet Performance pads with the stock rotors. They mostly work well, but the rears often squeak during light braking. Braking performance feels good, similar to stock. There is more brake dust than stock, but the pads are holding up well. I probably have about 5,000 miles on them now.

Thanks for the reply and recommendations. My main concern over at that other thread was seemingly knowledge members offering seeming erroneous advice. I'm thrown of while working on a computer screen for any length of time do to what that tell me it's an "ocular migraine" condition brought on by Graves which often leads to temporary blindness in my left eye. I'm not complaining but explaining here. Couple that with our slow internet connection out here and the fact I dont have a useable PC right now and I'm struggling with an iPad mini might lead me to ask for advice more readily than I should in the minds of some.
Anyway, my current plan is to use the premium Centric preloaded calipers paired with Centric black carbon rotors. My rotor have been cut twice already, I think. They are still within spec but for an addional 60 bucks and like zero additional work I I'll replace it them. Total price from Rock Auto. to "No Where Is Very Close" Colorado for everything (hardware seems to be included with the pre-loaded calipers) after core deposit return is about $275 plus fluid and stuff of course.
By the way my pump doesn't make anymore noise than it did 45k ago when I got my 04 Sport at about 160k (it reminds me of the squeaky clutch return spring on a 46 chevy half 3/4 ton I had in the early 70s). However, I really don't remember hearing it on my wife's newly acquired 04 gx470 which , while I never verified I believe has the same MC. I know the GX has a lot more cabin insulation but it still causes me to raise an eyebrow at mine.
 

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