>BUILD THREAD< The4kbeast's 3rd-Gen 2000 T4R SR5 (Highlander Edition) 4x4 Build

[The4kbeast]

So, it has occurred to me that I never corrected my wheel/suspension travel calculations from awhile back. I'm not going to do my drawings until I get final measurements together, but I do have calculations on hand I can share (sounds of papers rustling).

Front shock to wheel ratio:
22 3/4" shock ||| 27 1/2" fender to center
19 1/4" shock ||| 23 1/4" fender to center
2 1/2" ||| 4 1/4" (subtract bottom number from number above)

Or...
10/4" = 17/4"

Soo, in conclusion...
1" of shock travel = 1.70" of wheel travel
Meaning that a 8" strut gives you a little over 13 1/2" of wheel travel.
Or, this information is useful for those that are lucky enough to have adjustable coil over perches, can add exact spring preload adjustments to get a desired increase in ride height.

Numbers for the rear:
Shock: 18 1/4" ||| 22 fender to center
19 5/8" ||| 24 1/4" fender to center
1 3/8" ||| 2 1/4" (subtract bottom number from number above)

Soo, for the rear..
11/8 = 18/8

1" of shock travel = 1.6363" = ~1 5/8" of wheel travel
Meaning that a 8" shock theoretically gives you 13" of wheel travel. Doesn't mean much, but it sounds cool.

 

[The4kbeast]

Rear Spacers

Dhalsey and I have been on the hunt to add spacers to our rear 99 springs to level out the ride height. Dhalsey had also been wanting a little more height out of his Icon fronts so we cranked them up, as well.

Dhalsey's rig (centerline of axle/wheel to fender, non-flared, 1/2 tank gas):
Stock 99:
Left front 21.5 | Right front 21.5
Left rear 22 | Right rear 22

Stock 99 + two 10mm OME spring spacers with stock rubber inter-coil bump stops, and a 1/2" adjustment to the lower coilover perch
Left front 22.5 (+1") | Right front 22.5 (+1")
Left rear 23 (+1") | Right rear 23 (+1")

This is where the front numbers from the post above came from. We were trying to figure out the relationship between the distance set on the perch and the actual resulting wheel travel. It isn't onene...

 

[The4kbeast]

More rear spacers....

On my rig, with Tundra 5100 and 2001-2002 front springs set to the fifth perch and 99 springs in the rear with inter-coil rubber bump stop installed (4R with flares, 1/2 tank gas):
Lf. 20 1/2 | Rf. 20 1/2
Lr. 19 1/2 | Rr. 19 1/2

I picked up some spring spacers that are 1.5" without the spring depressions, and has a 22.5 mm core.

I'm going to use it as an upper spacer on top of the spring, as I don't want to effect the spring rate or over crowd the coils. But I'll have to shave the top off:

Not a great shot, but you can see how the stack height is with the top trimmed off:

I'm using this upper in place of the 9mm stock inter-coil bump stop. It indexes in the upper coil buck great ( I checked by hand on both sides), and the springs are contained at max droop. I really like how they are cupped on one side vs the flat pucks that the OME spacers have. And they are available at the local OReilly and PepBoys Auto supply chains for $6 each. They also had thicker ones for $17/ea that were too rich for my blood for experimentation. So 22.5 mm - 9 mm = 13.5 mm height overall increase to the spring assembly.

Adding in 22.5 mm (err... 13.5mm) REAR spacers (9/10")...
Lf. 22" (+ 1 1/2"???) | Rf. 21 3/4" (+ 1 1/4"???)
Lr. 22 1/8" (+ 1 5/8"???) | Rr. 22" (+ 2 1/2"???)

Evidently, I need to let it settle out for a day to get accurate measurements...

 

[The4kbeast]

I've been mulling over changing rear shocks in order to back off the high level of compression valving the Silerados have. It is a 298/94 (reb/comp). That is flipping stiff.

Man, this is tempting:
Bilstein 25-176230 Remote Reservoir 8.8" Travel Off Road Shock

• Travel (inches): 8.8
• Extended length (inches): 22.4
• Compressed length (inches): 13.6
• Upper mount: Eye 16mm (5/8 inch)
• Lower mount: Eye 16mm (5/8 inch)
• Valving: 255/70 - Bilstein valve ratings
• Boot included: No
• Shaft diameter: 14mm

The upper would need an adaptor a la the ToyTec rears, which would add and they actually have the same generic valving. I say generic only because they are the same 255/70 valving, which is Bilsteins mid level tune of its three base valve tunes.

170/60 - 255/70 - 360/80

 

[The4kbeast]

Rear bump stop solutions... Potentially?

I'm home sick, and dreaming about bumps stops in a flu-fevered temper.

I need a softer bump stop in the rear. The inner coal bumps are gone and were replaced with a spacer. The frame-mounted stops on the frame are picking up the slack, but only blearily... they were probably soft in 1999, but now they feel like they're made of cement... And I don't have the cash to do SPC hydraulic jounce stops ($700), or even the Daystar inner-coil foam jounce stops ($275)...

So it'll have to be a budget urethane bump stop. I love how beefy Sonoran's adaptors are for the Daystar bump stops, but don't really want to put the $150+ into it. Plus, I'd like to see if an idea I have pans out first. I'd like to try to use a longer Bump stop from Daystar to see if I can have additional bump compliance, using the space a little smarter (since I know what length shock I'm using).

Here's what works, with SS's kit (not shown):

Here's what I want to try to use, if there is room for a drilled out hole rough the middle. Heard it is hard, but if it worked it'd be a pretty sweet solution.

Rough comparison:

 

[sschaefer3]

There are threads on Yotatech from 2003 and 2004 when we tried this. It does not work, the taller stop will not compress. I used to sell the adapters for the taller stop but stopped since the performance was so bad.

This Daystar product KU09016 severely limits up travel on a 3rd Gen 4Runner.

 

[The4kbeast]

As always, thanks for the input Steve.

Any chance you've had any experience with Timbren, or Wheeler's SuperBumps? Seems they do custom stuff, but nothing that carries over directly for the 4Runner except or possibly or the Tacoma front.

There are threads on Yotatech from 2003 and 2004 when we tried this. It does not work, the taller stop will not compress. I used to sell the adapters for the taller stop but stopped since the performance was so bad.

This Daystar product KU09016 severely limits up travel on a 3rd Gen 4Runner.

 

[The4kbeast]

Cargo Light

Took a chance and measured up the cargo lamp for a custom replacement:

It's a 30 led board, and the circuit board etc just clears. Flipping it vertical allows the circuitry to clear the spring that tensions the socket adaptor. Electrical tape To isolate the circuit board and wrap the spring. Then I used a little form in place gasket to hold the LED board to the light base.

Installed:

Nice and bright. Ew, gross carpet.

Check out the light output on the ground, compared to the light shining out from back behind in the garage.

 

[The4kbeast]

Off to Ocotillo

Off to Ocotillo Wells for a few days... Removed the rear seat.

Long lonely road:

 

[The4kbeast]

Off roading videos...

Desert:
Desert off roading video in the washes around Ocotillo Wells, CA, Pt 1
Desert off roading video in the washes around Ocotillo Wells, CA, Pt 2
Desert off road video of front suspension on the high speed washes around Ocotillo Wells, CA, Pt 3
Desert off roading video in the washes around Ocotillo Wells, CA, Pt 4

Mountains:
Mountain Ascent Off Road, Indian Truck Trail in SoCal

 

[The4kbeast]

Desert:
Desert off roading video in the washes around Ocotillo Wells, CA, Pt 1
Desert off roading video in the washes around Ocotillo Wells, CA, Pt 2
Desert off road video of front suspension on the high speed washes around Ocotillo Wells, CA, Pt 3
Desert off roading video in the washes around Ocotillo Wells, CA, Pt 4

Mountains:
Mountain Ascent Off Road, Indian Truck Trail in SoCal

Wow... I just watched them after I elected to let YouTube smooth the videos out with software. Holy crap, I won't make that mistake again. They look so much better without processing. It looks like the camera is loose on its mount on the freaking truck. Grrrr... I wonder if I can undo the software fix, so I can avoid having to upload and relabel them.

This was my previous trip to Ocotillo, though. I still haven't gotten to the video I took from my last trip out (the one where I was on my death bed from the flu). Sucks that one of the few times I got to go out that I had to deal with that... But I did get to go, so.... : D

 

[The4kbeast]

Bored with my iPad... a dangerous combo:

 

[tre9er]

Redacted.

 

[tre9er]

At this point I'm just curious about the best rear shock setup you found. Seems like as of your last update you still had the silverado shocks. I wonder if the Tundra rear shocks are suitable for 99 talls with a 1.5" spacer? Have you thought about them?

 

[Yoter]

At this point I'm just curious about the best rear shock setup you found. Seems like as of your last update you still had the silverado shocks. I wonder if the Tundra rear shocks are suitable for 99 talls with a 1.5" spacer? Have you thought about them?

One thing to consider when deciding upon springs and shocks is that it is very conditional on the use of the vehicle and the user.
I have the Tundra TRD Springs up front and the 906 in the back. The 906 are on the stiffer side, but the vehcile handles better than it did when it was stock!
I could probably also benefit from better shocks in the rear as I am still running KYB GasAjusts which are designed for stock height and are not an adequate match for the 906's increased springs rate.
What I am trying to say is while 4K after very thorough research decided that the 99 springs and spacer were best for him does not mean that they will be for everyone. When raising the center of gravity of a vehicle and in turn the leverage the chassis has on the suspension components it is wise to compliment that with increased spring rates in order to maintain handleing.
Yes this is not ideal of articulation off road, but even the FJ80 springs have a significantly higher rate than the stock springs and they are still super soft.
I hope your lift works out for you. As far as shocks go if you are on a budget the wheelers off road ranchos have been getting some decent reviews, I installed a set on my buddys 4runner and he has been happy with them but he is still stock pending a lift.

 

[The4kbeast]

At this point I'm just curious about the best rear shock setup you found. Seems like as of your last update you still had the silverado shocks. I wonder if the Tundra rear shocks are suitable for 99 talls with a 1.5" spacer? Have you thought about them?

Been awhile since I've been on. The Silverado valving is too stiff for the 4Runner without additional weight from a bumper or rack (which I can't speak to), meaning you have to slam stuff to get the vavling to open up. Long term, I'm it isn't good for components or attachment points. I removed the front and rear sway bars, and that at least softened up the ride in corners. Thinking back, it would have been tempting to try the Ranger setup since it weights less than a Silverado and isn't rated to row as many tons. It's still just a guessing game though, so Tundra seem like the "safe" bet. Reason I say "safe" like that is because while 00-06 Tundra/4Runner both mount the shock inboard of the frame rail, the valving would still be stiffer for the heavier and higher tow/payload truck. If I open my checkbook again, it would be for a set of Radflo shocks designed for the truck, or a universal Bilstein with 255/70 valving. I still can't believe how limited the options are for the trucks.

 

[The4kbeast]

One thing to consider when deciding upon springs and shocks is that it is very conditional on the use of the vehicle and the user.
I have the Tundra TRD Springs up front and the 906 in the back. The 906 are on the stiffer side, but the vehcile handles better than it did when it was stock!
I could probably also benefit from better shocks in the rear as I am still running KYB GasAjusts which are designed for stock height and are not an adequate match for the 906's increased springs rate.

What conditions does it handle better? On road handling is probably what you're referring to, unless you have a bunch of added weight that actually makes use of the spring rate.

What I am trying to say is while 4K after very thorough research decided that the 99 springs and spacer were best for him does not mean that they will be for everyone. When raising the center of gravity of a vehicle and in turn the leverage the chassis has on the suspension components it is wise to compliment that with increased spring rates in order to maintain handleing.

Yup. The softer spring rate was a work-around to try to get the valving to open. A revalved Silverado would be fine, even with the base Bilstein 255/70 valving. I disagree with you on the spring rate comment. Even Icon recommends the stock spring rate with their expensive system. If I could, I'd love to have the front as soft as a fifth gen 4R. Slamming on the brakes gets you into travel, let alone hitting shit. Anyway, a softer spring rate is fine if you design the system holistically with sways and dampening too suit the setup. There are considerations if you are using a longer spring/travel setup, too. But we're not susp engineers, so upping the rates is the safe bet.

Yes this is not ideal of articulation off road, but even the FJ80 springs have a significantly higher rate than the stock springs and they are still super soft.
I hope your lift works out for you. As far as shocks go if you are on a budget the wheelers off road ranchos have been getting some decent reviews, I installed a set on my buddys 4runner and he has been happy with them but he is still stock pending a lift.

What is the difference in spring rates?

 

[RIDEALL]

I was pretty sure I was going to just go with the Tundra 5100 rears until hearing back for Bilstein that the valving is 128/76. With such light rebound I can see where people complain of a bouncy rear.

 

[The4kbeast]

I was pretty sure I was going to just go with the Tundra 5100 rears until hearing back for Bilstein that the valving is 128/76. With such light rebound I can see where people complain of a bouncy rear.

The leaf spring rear of the Tundra must have some additional friction that means they can back off of heavier rebound valving. Sonoran talks a lot about this when he talks about the difference in valving.

 

[The4kbeast]

Been away for awhile, but am still reeling from SEMA 2013. What an epic show to go to. I had some great one on one's with SPC, Icon, Sway-A-Way, Radflo, Toytech... you get the idea. Seems like a lot of development this year was centered around LED lighting technology (or maybe that was just the tech I was looking at).

I'm looking to make some suspension changes in the near future. Stay tuned!